• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
Gotland
  • AirikrStrife

    Bergakungen
    19 Badges
    Jul 30, 2010
    1.815
    767
    • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
    • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
    • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
    • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
    • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
    • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
    • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
    • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
    • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
    • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
    • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
    • Crusader Kings II
    I just forgot about one thing. The curious case of king Erik of Pomerania.

    Erik was king of the Kalmar Union, after raising taxes to finance his long wars against Holstein and the Hansa, widespread rebellions finally cost him the crown and he escaped to Gotland there he reigned as pirate king.
    My suggestion is that Gotland be made independent at start, With Erik as duke (as it would be some normal monarchy) when Erik dies, Gotland would face three choices, go back to Sweden (which it originally belonged to) become part of Denmark (which it did after Erik was payed by the danish king to leave) or become a pirate republic (only avaible for GC owners).

    Furthermore there should be a special event for Gotland, as long as Erik still lives, if he manages to occupy Copenhagen, he will be reinstates as king of Denmark (and all kingdoms still in union) this would allow for a pretty hardcore speed achievment :)
     
    Atlantic islands
  • AirikrStrife

    Bergakungen
    19 Badges
    Jul 30, 2010
    1.815
    767
    • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
    • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
    • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
    • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
    • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
    • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
    • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
    • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
    • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
    • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
    • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
    • Crusader Kings II
    First, areas. Current areas are suboptimal, Iceland is one area with two provinces, faroes is another area with two provinces (faroe and shetland)

    Faroes area should be removed completly, moving at least the faroe islands to iceland area.

    Shetland can also move to iceland area, or be made part of an area in the britain region, like the isles.

    Next up some random thoughts:
    I also think it would be nice if one of the iceland provinces produce livestock, because sheep is very big in iceland

    If possible a released Iceland should have republic as default government system, because it historically was, (I believe though that the game currently gives the government of the one releasing the country)

    It would also be nice to see some unique icelandic ideas if they're released, focusing on maritime and colonial ideas, high attrition etc but I'm not gonna do them.

    Next up, Greenland:

    I started with the goal of adding a third province to greenland, which wouldn't feel like just an arbitary strip of coast, and got interested in the diskobay area before realising it's not even on the euiv map. Disko Island/bay/fjord were important hunting grounds for vikings, were later settled by inuits and became the center of the north greenland colony (yes denmark had two colonies on greenland, north & south greenland)

    Well disko bay is out but my next discovery were a bit surprising, none of the two current icelandic provinces actually contain the area they're named after!

    As can be made out from this picture:



    The historic western settlement (Vestbygden) is located nort of the current province (close to modern day Nuuk) and Eriksfjord, located within the eastern settlement area is south of the current province, black circles indicate were those provinces should be moved:

    2019-04-12.png

    Essentially the old provinces could be made into a new third province, alternatively make both provinces larger covering the ground between them. Since I can't find any conventional norse name for the area, so either later danish colonial name, or indigenous greenlandic name, though I can't find names of any settlement from before danish colonization.
    Ivittuut, which is the name of the area of the norse middle settlement is one option https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivittuut

    It is probable that Eirikrsfjord should still have nordic culture by 1444, but I consider this optional, especially for balance reasons (for uniting culture group to clear the age objective)

    I'm also making a black circle for the area around Ammassalik in eastern greenland that could be made a province aswell.

    Greenland wasby all means a danish colony, so I would suggest making Greenland part of the Canada colonial region aswell.


    Lastly I will talk about culture.

    By 1444 the different island nordic languages would have started to diverge from norwegian, and distinct identities had already been established during the viking age (among at least icelanders.

    Especially during the euiv timeline when Norwegian were infuenced by danish and danish being the language of the elite in norway, the island nordic languages would diverge and become more unique.
    Given the existence of an Iceland tag, I feel making an Iclandic culture for Iceland, the faroes, Shetland & Orkney (norn speakers) and possibly eiriksfjord would be a decent option.
     
    Karelia-Kola
  • AirikrStrife

    Bergakungen
    19 Badges
    Jul 30, 2010
    1.815
    767
    • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
    • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
    • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
    • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
    • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
    • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
    • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
    • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
    • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
    • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
    • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
    • Crusader Kings II
    As @The Sneaky Top Hat pointed out in his thread, samis were not christian by 1444, so they should all be pagan. I suggest using Tengriism as it has coem to represent all shamanistic beliefs of northern eurasia.

    I also wanted to better show my map on the eastern karelia and kola area and slightely update it.


    Looking at this 18th century map we can see kola and northern karelia being divided into three different areas, Mourmanskoy Leporie, Terskoy Leporie and Bellamorskoy Leporie
    I decided to make one province for roughly each one of these areas.
    From my readings it is also quite clear that the karelians were still not settled as far north as currently in game, I'm not gonna be pixel crazy, as their anyway is a significant lack of sources on the subject, but this is my updated map:

    2019-04-15.png

    Provinces: Murmansk (capitol Kola; trade goods fur or fish), Kola (capitol Umba or Varzuga; trade goods fish) Kandalaksha (Capitol Kandalaksha; trade goods salt)
    All three provinces has sami culture, and together with White Karelia and Olonets they make up East Karelia State. White Karelia get's fur as trade goods as the salt is moved to Kandalaksha.

    I also took inspiration from @Entrone and included a Vytegra province, part of Beloozero area. Unclear if this province would have novgorod culture, or karelian as a stand in for veps. Entrone, have you been able to figure out population of this area? I can't find mentions of any russians town or villages from before 1470's, so I consider it plausible to still be Vepsian

    Edit: I think Karelia should exist as a tag from the beginning of the game, not only appear as a revolter state, historically the region did have a strong political organization prior to being more or less voluntarily incorporated into Novgorod
     
    Last edited:
    Schleswig-Holstein Question
  • AirikrStrife

    Bergakungen
    19 Badges
    Jul 30, 2010
    1.815
    767
    • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
    • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
    • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
    • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
    • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
    • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
    • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
    • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
    • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
    • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
    • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
    • Crusader Kings II
    Yes I know, I keep coming up with new ideas as I process the topic and blabla superannoying, but let's take a look at everyones favourite duchy, Schleswig-Holstein. I have already discussed the political status of Schleswig and Holstein in my OP. And hinted as possible divisions of new provinces. Now I'm gonna do a full sketch over several possible new provinces in the schleswig holstein area, note I'm not trying to say all suggested changes should happen, I'm listing possibilities for devs to later ocnsider, possibly already for the europe patch even.

    One thing which has been my goal with this has been to make Schleswig it's own area, as I currently don't want Schleswig in the germany region, it should rightfully be part of scandinavia.


    The area in question (yes, Vendsyssel makes an excellent new province)

    The political look of Schleswig-Holstein during the timeline:

    For more detail look here http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/scandinavia/schleswig-holstein.htm . Now it's impossible and not even preferable to split the duchies after these weird feudal construction. Instead I looked at different new approaches focusing on more simple geographical features and historical regions.

    2019-04-16.png

    Now what is going on here? From south I have proposed a Wagria province, consisting of eastern Holstein, and the island of Fehmarn, historically part of Schleswig, erroneously part of the danish islands in game and should most conveniently (I toyed with the idea of making it it's own province) be part of Wagria or just Holstein if no new province is made. Also new strait from Holstein to Lolland :)
    Dithmarschen has shrunk a little bit as it is somewhat too large (next pic shows how the holstein region historically looked). Technically Holstein could eat part of Hamburg but I'm not gonna push that point.
    Dividing Schleswig is often done on the modern border, which doesn't represent any pre 1864 political or administrative division but it's hell of a lot practical, the area anyway will never be able to be represented well by those criterias. It just works well how the border uses the Flensburgfjord as a partly natural border, making a south Schleswig (let's call it Schleswig) contra a north schleswig (let's call it Hadersleben). Schleswig Should have Flensburg as capitol though, and have a lvl 1 CoT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flensburg#Early_modern_times
    The two other possible provinces in Schleswig, one of which should be choosen, is a North Frisia province, THIS ONLY BE RELEVANT IF FRISIAN CULTURE, which would include the island of Heligoland. Other option is province of Sönderborg (only glorious swedish Ö in this thread) Which would consist of the islands of Als and Ärö (Only glorious swedish Ä in this thread). Even if this province ain't made reality, Ärö, which is currently part of Funen province, should be made part of Schleswig and more straits should be made. I also moved the border of Schleswig slightely south, to follow the Eider better


    (Also Lübeck to Holstein area with new province to Mecklenburg in europe patch, Hopefully)

    Edit:
    And like seriously, I took another look at the map and realized Lauenburg province is crazily oversized


    Increasing the size of Holstein on the expense of Lauenburg and Dithmarchen should easily make room for two or even three provinces provinces,

    I'm gonna make a few different proposals:

    Base map:
    Holstein bas karta.png

    This is what I call the base map, the territory Holstein has to play with after gaining territory from Dithmarschen Hamburg, Lübeck and Lauenburg, and loosing a little to schleswig. From here there are many ways to divide the current area. Since it is not possible to use any contemporaery administrative divisions, I decided to utilize the traditional division, which still was carried by the dukes of holstein/kings of denmark.


    Holstein bas karta.png

    Here I have provinces for the traditional regions of Holstein, the borders are not exact, as that wouldn't be very practical: green is Holstein proper with capital in Kiev, red is Wagria, including the island of Fehmarn, capitol would be Plön or Eutin, could be controlled by Clergy to represent the prince-bishops of Lübeck. Blue is Stormarn, a historical Gau, this area could be controlled by noble estate, or even start as independent, representing the counts of Holstein-Schaumburg (the original counts who controlled Holstein) tag then would be Schaumburg, but I doubt it'd be considered large/significant enough to be added to the game.

    Alternative to this division, is a simpler two way split. But I wanted to look at the full possibilities of splitting this area
     
    Last edited:
    Norse Flavor
  • AirikrStrife

    Bergakungen
    19 Badges
    Jul 30, 2010
    1.815
    767
    • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
    • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
    • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
    • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
    • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
    • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
    • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
    • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
    • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
    • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
    • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
    • Crusader Kings II
    I really realize I enjoy making these mission trees, therefor I casually whipped up a mission tree for norse pagans today
    The mission tree is available to countries with norse religion and Scandinavian culture.
    I also add that Norse religion can now raid coasts as part of their mechanic

    Skärmavbild 2019-07-01 kl. 18.04.27.png

    Frisia
    Conquer Frisisia, Groningen, Amsterdam, Den Hague, Zealand and Utrecht
    Gain sick ton of money and the area along the Rhine suffers massive devastation as it's been raided.''

    Iceland
    Own Iceland area (which should include Faroes per my earlier post on that matter)
    Gain a colonist for 20 years and extra colonial range

    Greenland
    Have a colony in Greenland
    Same reward as before

    Vinland
    Have a colony in North America
    gain colonial enthusiasm modifier

    Prepare fleet
    Have at least 90%Naval force limit and 25 ships
    Gains permaclaim on Shetland, Orkney and the isles, Frisia (as defined above)

    The Isles
    Own the isles
    Gain permaclaim on Ireland

    Ireland
    Own Ireland
    Gain manpower recovery speed modifier

    Great Britain
    Own British region
    gain 20 prestige

    raid mediteranean
    Raid a province in Mediterranean Sea
    Gain permaclaims on Naples and Sicily

    Norman Kingdom
    Own Naples and Sicily
    gain claims on tunis
    if not kingdom rank become kingdom rank

    Great Heathen army
    Have an army of at least 40 000 men and 90% of full manpower
    Gain permaclaim on the Danelaw
    gain increased reinforce speed for 20 years

    Danelaw
    Conquer Danelaw
    Gain permaclaim on England, Wales, Scotland and Normandy

    Normandy
    Own Normandy area
    Gain permanent local defensiveness in Normandy area gain some sort of CB on France to occupy capital

    Sack Paris
    Occupy province of Paris
    Fire event "Sack of Paris" Paris looses 2 in each development category and ile-de France gains 100 devastation. Gain 200 of each monarch point, 20 prestige and 2000 ducats

    Control Scandinavia
    Control Sweden (except Lapland) Norway (except Finnmarken) and Denmark (including Schleswig)
    Gain increased centralization modifier and 10 prestige

    Pagan temple in Uppsala
    Uppsala (see provinces) is norse and has a temple
    Gain event "Blot at Uppsala" works like the Oxford symposium event that it triggers every 9 years and gives a modifier
    Gain permaclaim on Lappland, Finnmarken and Kola

    Tax the Sami
    Own Lappland, Finnmark and Kola
    Gain production efficiency in those provinces for 20 years

    Refound Danevirke
    Have at least level 2 fort in Schleswig
    Gain permanent local defensivness modifier (Danevirke) in Schleswig
    Gain permaclaim on Vorpommern

    Jomsvikings
    Control Vorpommern
    Trigger Jomsvikings event: Choose to either let the Jomsvikings be free from direct interference (Makes Jomsvikings a march controlling Vorpommern using the tag from CKII converter) or choose direct control gives a permanent modifier "Jomsvikingar" Granting +5% mercenary discipline and 25% loot speed

    Raid east baltic
    Raid all coast provinces in baltic region and Ingermanland
    Gain permaclaim on Ingria and Novgorod

    Holmgård
    Conquer Ingria and Novgorod
    Gain permaclaim on most of Ruthenia

    Kiev Rus'
    Conquer most of Ruthenia
    Gain claim on rest of Russia region
    If Byzantion exists fires the event "Byzantine guard"
    If Byzantine Empire doesn't exists get's permaclaim on Konstantinople

    Miklagård
    either own Constantinople or establish the "Byzantine Guard" modifier
    Byzantine Guard event chain:
    Norse state get the option to either claim Constantinople for itself, getting permaclaims on Constantinople
    or establish the Byzantine guard which gives themselves a permanent modifier giving yearly army tradition and a guarantee independence on Byzantine and +200 relation while Byzantine get's the permanent modifier "Byzantine guard" granting +5% mercenary discipline

    I feel this is a fairly simple mission chain (There could be many more non-conquest missions) but sufficient, especially since this is not a nation to actually appear in game, nor did I add any more mechanics or similar besides giving them coastal raid. I though of making some government reforms and even allowing razing but did not stray that far (if a Scandinavia immersion pack ever is considered that would be a possible feature)
     
    Let's look at Berglagen
  • AirikrStrife

    Bergakungen
    19 Badges
    Jul 30, 2010
    1.815
    767
    • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
    • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
    • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
    • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
    • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
    • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
    • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
    • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
    • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
    • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
    • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
    • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
    • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
    • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
    • Crusader Kings II
    An area of scandinavia/sweden I didn't concern myself with in previous discussions, because at a glance they look well enough has recently caught my attention as I been reading a few books which takes place in northern and western parts of sweden and I came to realize some discrepencies in the game.

    The area I'm particularly talking about are the swedish lands of Dalarna and Västmanland, in game represented by provinces Dalaskogen and Bergslagen. Though this suggestion will also touch a little bit on surrounding lands.
    440px-Dalälven_drainage_basin_administrative_map-fr.svg.png


    Now this area is of extreme importance in swedish history, as the source of metal, insane amount of metal. Currently in the game there is even a province modifier for Stora Kopparberget giving increased goods produced, which is very accurate to have. Kopparberget were producing 2/3 of all european copper at it's height.
    Now what I realized when studying the topic a little bit, though I have to admitt I'm a bit bad at reading maps, it seems like Kopparberget is not in the correct province! As they're currently drawn.

    Skärmbild (41).png

    Approximate location of the Kopparberg mine in sweden (yes, the mining area is huge, probably even bigger than that circle. Now I feel something should be done about this, and I'm seeing better option than just moving the modifier and goods from Dalaskogen to Bergslagen.

    Let's first back of and look at the area in general, previously I suggested creating separate provinces for Uppland and Södermanland, currently this is of lesser importance than getting this area right.
    The concept of Bergslagen, which in the game is a province is a generally fluid concept. While it is fairly correct to call the current province Bergslagen it also existed as a more vague concept of all territory which were a "bergslag" literaly mountain law, a region where mining where so important that it got special laws in order to promote the mining industry. Sweden had 19 such areas, genrally concentrated in Bergslagen and Närke provinces though with a few in several surrounding provinces, in total sweden had 19 such laws, 17 for iron, one for copper and one for silver (getting back to the silver one in a moment)
    I propose that instead of having a province called Bergslagen, the whole area of western svealand changes name to bergslagen (which would also be consequent with CKII which uses that as a duchy

    But we still need to redraw the province of Bergslagen and my idea to do that is basing it on the division between västmanland and dalarna (roughly, also the borders have changed making the modern västmanland larger than the historical)

    New map
    Skärmbild (41).png

    So Old Dalaskogen province has now become a bit smaller, representing Dalarna proper north of lake Siljan, it has it's development decreased to 3, and it's trade goods changed from copper to something none metallic, as no mining where done in northern dalarna, Fur is presumably a good trade goods. Capital can be Mora

    Green circle now marks the province of Kopparbergslagen., with copper as trade goods and the stora kopparberget province modifier. Development should actually be quite good, at least seven as Dalarna provides insane amount of Copper, some iron and also provided large number of troops to the swedish army.

    Purple circle is the province of Västmanland, capital Västerås, which starts with Iron as trade goods and about 4-5 development. But there should be an event for the Sala silver mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sala_Silver_Mine
    As it is unknown exactly when Sala silver mine opened, first mention is in 1511. So I'd suggest giving the event a 15 year mean time to happen after 1490 which will give the player the option to change goods produced to gold

    I did mark the potential split in Uppland and Södermanland provinces from Stockholm, but I consider them less important. I marked the split between Hälsingland and my suggested Härnosand province Up north. I also drew a thin line to mark out Gästrikland from remaining Hälsingland, as that is a possible province but very low priority.

    Area division will then be:
    Bergslagen: Värmland, Närke, Dalaskogen, Kopparbergslagen
    Svealand: Västmanland, Stockholm, Åland


    Also note the Bergsmen (mountainmen) who worked the mines where part of the peasant estate, i.e. we need a peasant estate for scandinavian countries, frisian countries and peasant republics. After next patch I will make a suggestion about this sometime when I gotten used to the new estate mechanics.
     
    Last edited: