• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

AirikrStrife

Bergakungen
19 Badges
Jul 30, 2010
1.804
727
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
Yes, I'm Norwegian :)

I honestly think the wasteland should stay. While it's certainly possible to get from one side of the mountains to the other, it would be a attrition-filled, logistical nightmare to actually march an army across there in winter. Imagine trying to pull artillery through 2 metres of snow in -20 °C and strong winds; all of this without trees for wood :(
The wasteland can be reshaped, but I don't think an east-west connection is necessary. If you remove the physical connection between Bergenhus and Stavanger, and replace it with a strait across the Hardanger Fjord, the Hardanger province could work. I would still think Sogn would be a slightly better one, as Sogn og Fjordane has about 5x the population of Hardanger (today).

So pretty much like dragging artillery through the tibetan plateau :cool:

You're absolutly right about Sögn being larger and more populous, the reason I still hold to Hardanger is because it's a more curious province, it's not just another province in the norwegian loop.

I tried updating southern norways borders,
2019-04-02 (1).png

I'm basing my drawings in part on the maps on this webbpage https://lokalhistoriewiki.no/wiki/Leksikon:Len
Admittedly My attempt at adding Numedalen to the Buskerud province looks pretty aweful, partly because my Buskerud is more based on the current Buskerud county rather than the historical Brunla len, which has a much thinner shape (and adding Numedal is optional). I feel these changes will make southern norway more dynamic than just a straight road, as it now would offer some maneuverability. Note though that I conciously avoided access between Bratsberg and Stavanger, despite those provinces touching in the map above.

(drawing is a bit approximate, especially since I didn't really manage to figure out which river it is on the map, haven't been able to get a good map on norwegian rivers)

Hopefully one day PDX improves attrition system (essentially removing the cap and improving ai attrition management is first step)

Do you have any good additions to my current norwegian mission tree suggestion?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/scandinavian-mission-trees.1085530/
 
Atlantic islands

AirikrStrife

Bergakungen
19 Badges
Jul 30, 2010
1.804
727
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
First, areas. Current areas are suboptimal, Iceland is one area with two provinces, faroes is another area with two provinces (faroe and shetland)

Faroes area should be removed completly, moving at least the faroe islands to iceland area.

Shetland can also move to iceland area, or be made part of an area in the britain region, like the isles.

Next up some random thoughts:
I also think it would be nice if one of the iceland provinces produce livestock, because sheep is very big in iceland

If possible a released Iceland should have republic as default government system, because it historically was, (I believe though that the game currently gives the government of the one releasing the country)

It would also be nice to see some unique icelandic ideas if they're released, focusing on maritime and colonial ideas, high attrition etc but I'm not gonna do them.

Next up, Greenland:

I started with the goal of adding a third province to greenland, which wouldn't feel like just an arbitary strip of coast, and got interested in the diskobay area before realising it's not even on the euiv map. Disko Island/bay/fjord were important hunting grounds for vikings, were later settled by inuits and became the center of the north greenland colony (yes denmark had two colonies on greenland, north & south greenland)

Well disko bay is out but my next discovery were a bit surprising, none of the two current icelandic provinces actually contain the area they're named after!

As can be made out from this picture:



The historic western settlement (Vestbygden) is located nort of the current province (close to modern day Nuuk) and Eriksfjord, located within the eastern settlement area is south of the current province, black circles indicate were those provinces should be moved:

2019-04-12.png

Essentially the old provinces could be made into a new third province, alternatively make both provinces larger covering the ground between them. Since I can't find any conventional norse name for the area, so either later danish colonial name, or indigenous greenlandic name, though I can't find names of any settlement from before danish colonization.
Ivittuut, which is the name of the area of the norse middle settlement is one option https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivittuut

It is probable that Eirikrsfjord should still have nordic culture by 1444, but I consider this optional, especially for balance reasons (for uniting culture group to clear the age objective)

I'm also making a black circle for the area around Ammassalik in eastern greenland that could be made a province aswell.

Greenland wasby all means a danish colony, so I would suggest making Greenland part of the Canada colonial region aswell.


Lastly I will talk about culture.

By 1444 the different island nordic languages would have started to diverge from norwegian, and distinct identities had already been established during the viking age (among at least icelanders.

Especially during the euiv timeline when Norwegian were infuenced by danish and danish being the language of the elite in norway, the island nordic languages would diverge and become more unique.
Given the existence of an Iceland tag, I feel making an Iclandic culture for Iceland, the faroes, Shetland & Orkney (norn speakers) and possibly eiriksfjord would be a decent option.
 

EasternTiger

Captain
64 Badges
Jun 20, 2018
377
70
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
On the topic of Greenland, I think you could probably keep the two current provinces, having them represent Frederikshåb/Paamiut and Ivigtût/Ivittuut. Another possible name instead of Paamiut could be Fiskenæsset/Qeqertarsuatsiaat. I also agree on having the two new provinces beside them, with a historical accurate Vestbygden/Godthåb/Nuuk and a province to represent the Eastern Settlement, for example Julianehåb/Qaqortoq near the ruins of Hvalsey. I'm pretty sure that someone with more knowledge about Greenland might have better suggestions for naming the provinces in Greenland. I disagree with adding an Ammassalik/Tasiilaq province. According to the wiki, this area was only permanently settled in 1894, outside the EU4 timeframe. Any way, a 4 province Greenland would be a better improvement than its current form with only 2 provinces.
 

Semi-Lobster

Tàishǒu of Rìnán Commandery
43 Badges
Nov 13, 2003
5.539
17
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
Given the very large distance between them, would it be worthwhile to have a separate Orkney/Orkneyjar province from the current Shetland/Hjaltland province?
 
Last edited:

StevieBuceemi

Recruit
24 Badges
Jan 1, 2019
2
0
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
What about an event tied to completing missions which unlocks Karoliner as an elite unit? The unit's bonus modifiers could be tied to Sweden's church power and religious unity to add some flavour. Furthermore, Sweden being able to quickly mobilise elite infantry across the country would make sense due to the indelningsverket system. This would also help the awful Swedish economy keep costs down during times of peace as there wouldn't be the need to maintain a large standing army.

Another interesting mechanic could be negative effects if Karoliner units are raised too often in a short period (maybe 10-20 years). Negative effects could be increased unrest, reduced production, lower manpower recovery, raised dev cost etc. to simulate population drain and the devestating effect of extended foreign campaigns on the remaining communities at home.
 
Last edited:
Karelia-Kola

AirikrStrife

Bergakungen
19 Badges
Jul 30, 2010
1.804
727
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
As @The Sneaky Top Hat pointed out in his thread, samis were not christian by 1444, so they should all be pagan. I suggest using Tengriism as it has coem to represent all shamanistic beliefs of northern eurasia.

I also wanted to better show my map on the eastern karelia and kola area and slightely update it.


Looking at this 18th century map we can see kola and northern karelia being divided into three different areas, Mourmanskoy Leporie, Terskoy Leporie and Bellamorskoy Leporie
I decided to make one province for roughly each one of these areas.
From my readings it is also quite clear that the karelians were still not settled as far north as currently in game, I'm not gonna be pixel crazy, as their anyway is a significant lack of sources on the subject, but this is my updated map:

2019-04-15.png

Provinces: Murmansk (capitol Kola; trade goods fur or fish), Kola (capitol Umba or Varzuga; trade goods fish) Kandalaksha (Capitol Kandalaksha; trade goods salt)
All three provinces has sami culture, and together with White Karelia and Olonets they make up East Karelia State. White Karelia get's fur as trade goods as the salt is moved to Kandalaksha.

I also took inspiration from @Entrone and included a Vytegra province, part of Beloozero area. Unclear if this province would have novgorod culture, or karelian as a stand in for veps. Entrone, have you been able to figure out population of this area? I can't find mentions of any russians town or villages from before 1470's, so I consider it plausible to still be Vepsian

Edit: I think Karelia should exist as a tag from the beginning of the game, not only appear as a revolter state, historically the region did have a strong political organization prior to being more or less voluntarily incorporated into Novgorod
 
Last edited:

AirikrStrife

Bergakungen
19 Badges
Jul 30, 2010
1.804
727
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
What about an event tied to completing missions which unlocks Karoliner as an elite unit? The unit's bonus modifiers could be tied to Sweden's church power and religious unity to add some flavour. Furthermore, Sweden being able to quickly mobilise elite infantry across the country would make sense due to the indelningsverket system. This would also help the awful Swedish economy keep costs down during times of peace as there wouldn't be the need to maintain a large standing army.

Another interesting mechanic could be negative effects if Karoliner units are raised too often in a short period (maybe 10-20 years). Negative effects could be increased unrest, reduced production, lower manpower recovery, raised dev cost etc. to simulate population drain and the devestating effect of extended foreign campaigns on the remaining communities at home.

While having Caroleans as a special unit could work, there are a few reasons why I won't suggest it.

1. Caroleans shouldn't be avaible from the start, meaning certain requirements needs to be fulfilled, doing as I did in my suggestion is less work for something that will probably only appear in player games (I doubt ai makes it that far into their mission trees)

2. Special units are typically a paid for feature, I have designed this suggestion to be a free patch, something to be released 2-3 weeks after a proper dlc. This is also the reason I don't discuss things like a peasant estate. Unless pdx discontinues this system of regional updates and does something like an art of war update (which I hope they will do at some point in time) it is unlikely to see a paid for dlc about scandinavia.

3. As I said I could see the caroleans as special units, I find your desire for a greater mechanic to be outside the general scope of special units other countries has, with a serious of special effects and modifiers to carolean units. This does not necessarily argue against having caroleans units, but does tie into previous to points why it might be unlikely to see them as such

I'm happy though to see someone commenting on the mission tree I designed! I had hoped for more feedback and maybe suggestions for even more missions in this thread
 
Schleswig-Holstein Question

AirikrStrife

Bergakungen
19 Badges
Jul 30, 2010
1.804
727
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
Yes I know, I keep coming up with new ideas as I process the topic and blabla superannoying, but let's take a look at everyones favourite duchy, Schleswig-Holstein. I have already discussed the political status of Schleswig and Holstein in my OP. And hinted as possible divisions of new provinces. Now I'm gonna do a full sketch over several possible new provinces in the schleswig holstein area, note I'm not trying to say all suggested changes should happen, I'm listing possibilities for devs to later ocnsider, possibly already for the europe patch even.

One thing which has been my goal with this has been to make Schleswig it's own area, as I currently don't want Schleswig in the germany region, it should rightfully be part of scandinavia.


The area in question (yes, Vendsyssel makes an excellent new province)

The political look of Schleswig-Holstein during the timeline:

For more detail look here http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/scandinavia/schleswig-holstein.htm . Now it's impossible and not even preferable to split the duchies after these weird feudal construction. Instead I looked at different new approaches focusing on more simple geographical features and historical regions.

2019-04-16.png

Now what is going on here? From south I have proposed a Wagria province, consisting of eastern Holstein, and the island of Fehmarn, historically part of Schleswig, erroneously part of the danish islands in game and should most conveniently (I toyed with the idea of making it it's own province) be part of Wagria or just Holstein if no new province is made. Also new strait from Holstein to Lolland :)
Dithmarschen has shrunk a little bit as it is somewhat too large (next pic shows how the holstein region historically looked). Technically Holstein could eat part of Hamburg but I'm not gonna push that point.
Dividing Schleswig is often done on the modern border, which doesn't represent any pre 1864 political or administrative division but it's hell of a lot practical, the area anyway will never be able to be represented well by those criterias. It just works well how the border uses the Flensburgfjord as a partly natural border, making a south Schleswig (let's call it Schleswig) contra a north schleswig (let's call it Hadersleben). Schleswig Should have Flensburg as capitol though, and have a lvl 1 CoT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flensburg#Early_modern_times
The two other possible provinces in Schleswig, one of which should be choosen, is a North Frisia province, THIS ONLY BE RELEVANT IF FRISIAN CULTURE, which would include the island of Heligoland. Other option is province of Sönderborg (only glorious swedish Ö in this thread) Which would consist of the islands of Als and Ärö (Only glorious swedish Ä in this thread). Even if this province ain't made reality, Ärö, which is currently part of Funen province, should be made part of Schleswig and more straits should be made. I also moved the border of Schleswig slightely south, to follow the Eider better


(Also Lübeck to Holstein area with new province to Mecklenburg in europe patch, Hopefully)

Edit:
And like seriously, I took another look at the map and realized Lauenburg province is crazily oversized


Increasing the size of Holstein on the expense of Lauenburg and Dithmarchen should easily make room for two or even three provinces provinces,

I'm gonna make a few different proposals:

Base map:
Holstein bas karta.png

This is what I call the base map, the territory Holstein has to play with after gaining territory from Dithmarschen Hamburg, Lübeck and Lauenburg, and loosing a little to schleswig. From here there are many ways to divide the current area. Since it is not possible to use any contemporaery administrative divisions, I decided to utilize the traditional division, which still was carried by the dukes of holstein/kings of denmark.


Holstein bas karta.png

Here I have provinces for the traditional regions of Holstein, the borders are not exact, as that wouldn't be very practical: green is Holstein proper with capital in Kiev, red is Wagria, including the island of Fehmarn, capitol would be Plön or Eutin, could be controlled by Clergy to represent the prince-bishops of Lübeck. Blue is Stormarn, a historical Gau, this area could be controlled by noble estate, or even start as independent, representing the counts of Holstein-Schaumburg (the original counts who controlled Holstein) tag then would be Schaumburg, but I doubt it'd be considered large/significant enough to be added to the game.

Alternative to this division, is a simpler two way split. But I wanted to look at the full possibilities of splitting this area
 
Last edited:

Thaif

Rememberer
71 Badges
Nov 14, 2014
148
175
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • War of the Vikings
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Sengoku
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
So on another topic since I don't know enough about Denmarks history: The Governors-General of Grand Duchy of Finland. There were Governor-Generals appointed in all "dominions" of Sweden, but Finland has a...particular role; Particularly exemplified by the Hakkapeliitta.

The Grand Duchy often acted more like a March under the Governor-Generals and by the games standards was. With the exception that the governor-general was appointed for by the King of Sweden sporadically through out history.
Most or all of Finland was granted to this governor-general, who took care of the matters in the eastern part of the country more or less according to his own best judgement.
One of these governors left an expression in the Finnish language: "Kreivin aikaan", "In the Counts Time" meaning something fortuitous happening at the right time.
This was Count Per Brahe whose rule was a particularly good period in the history of Finland. He reformed the whole administration, introduced a postal system, founded ten new towns, improved and developed commerce and agriculture, and very greatly promoted education; In 1640 he opened the Royal Academy of Turku, of which he was the founder, and first chancellor.
The base of his statue in Turku bears the inscription "I was well pleased with the land and the land with me".

This historical back drop, or any equivalent, could be a great opportunity to introduce a "Governor" system in to the State mechanics of the game, but that's a broader topic for another time.

All of this context boils down to this; The Grand Duchy of Finland(which was the official title for the time) should be a March under the current game rules, but if a kind of Immersion Pack or Content Patch were to be made as @AirikrStrife is suggesting/building, then Finland could have some very interesting mechanics associated with it; A march-like internal division of the Kingdom of Sweden, which is ruled by an appointed Governor-General, from where one could raise Hakkapeliitta cavalry units for the cost of autonomy.
Since the idea then was that the people who offered a cavalryman for the Crowns service was equipped, to the Crowns stated standard, by those same people in exchange for tax exception or tax freeze for as long as they provided the said cavalrymen.

A unique unit that costs autonomy to raise from Finnish cultured provinces would be a pretty neat and fitting twist on the already introduced Banners system from Mandate of Heaven.
This would also mean that the peasantry, or rather the land-owning peasantry called "Säätyläiset" loosely translated in meaning as "the estatees" would have to represented in some way since they held actual power in the Riksdag(the Swedish Diet) already prior to this.
Considering how the developers asked for peoples opinions for how to develop and improve the Estate system, some rules for as to how a flavorful and "special" Estate the likes of which we saw in Dharma(not to mention the Cossacs) could emerge.

Oh dear this was supposed to be a short version...

Anyway those are some of my thoughts on mechanics or rather features for this suggestion.
 
Last edited:

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
276
41
I also took inspiration from @Entrone and included a Vytegra province, part of Beloozero area. Unclear if this province would have novgorod culture, or karelian as a stand in for veps. Entrone, have you been able to figure out population of this area? I can't find mentions of any russians town or villages from before 1470's, so I consider it plausible to still be Vepsian

Edit: I think Karelia should exist as a tag from the beginning of the game, not only appear as a revolter state, historically the region did have a strong political organization prior to being more or less voluntarily incorporated into Novgorod
Sorry for late answer, but better late than never.
I didn't find anything about the culture of the population, and as Vytegra was founded just a few years later than the start of the game, it could be Vepsian/Karelian.
On the other hand Novgorodians settled quite early northward, so it's likely they already had a strong presence, even if not a town, so it could be Novgorodian too.

I would like to highlight though that currently the Beloozero-Novgorod border is not accurate, Beloozero shouldn't strech as far north, it was a quite straight line.
Like this:
 

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
276
41
So, since we could see in the last months dev diaries, what the devs are planning in Northern Germany, I see your Denmark in a new light.
Next to that Pomerania, Mecklenburg and Lower Saxony, I think divifing Schleswig not just advisable, but necessary. The devs probably added Frisian culture, accordint to this pic they posted about new cultures :)

So it would be great to see Nordfriesland as a separate province, and splitting the remaining of it horizontally is quite obvious.
So we either should have a 5 province Schleswing-Holstein, with the addition of Holstein and Dithmarshen, or a 3 porvince Schlewsig, and by adding one more province (my pick would be Wagria), a 3 province Holstein. I'm okay with both.

In Jytland, probably that Vendsyssel is the best prossible addition. Regarding the islands, having 4 province, with the splitting of Sjaelland into Roskile and Kobenhavn is just fine.
Bornholm fits Skane right, but what about that line in Halland, in your first post?
 
Last edited:

AirikrStrife

Bergakungen
19 Badges
Jul 30, 2010
1.804
727
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
Schleswig needs to become it's own area, part of nordic region. I am actually also thinking Sönderborg (the islands I circled is a good province too for depth).

Holstein looks hard to split because they made all surrounding provinces overlarge, but it could easily be split into two (I would go Kiel in the east and probably Rendsburg for the central bulk)

But tbh it's not impossible to do it a three way split either. Then Holstein area would be Dithmarschen, 2-3 provinces in Holsteinian provinces.

I asked them about schleswig-holstein, and a dev just responded that schleswig wasn't part of this focus, no comment on holstein. As Holstein is a semi-scandinavian land they might put it all off for a later focus

Essentially I was trying a lot of ideas for giving denmark more provinces, some not particularly good (like trying to split off more islands) and also splitting Halland, by the time I changed my mind I couldn't ctrl-z that line as I done more new ones. In middle ages Halland were split between north and south, and still today there are marked dialectal differences with northern halland speaking götamål and southern halland speaking south swedish.
 

jrgen3

Field Marshal
145 Badges
Dec 2, 2012
3.827
544
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings III
I think Bornholm should be in the same area as Copenhagen.
 

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
276
41
Because Sweden conquered Skåneland, leaving Denmark with a one-province area.
Because exactly that happened :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lands_of_Denmark

"Bornholm is the only part to represent Scania after the rest of the region was lost to Sweden in 1658. (Bornholm was also lost in 1658, but was recovered two years later.)"

Bornholm is geographically closer to Scania, and as you can see, it was considered to be part of it.
Besides Denmark usually doesen't have problems with state numbers, even if they inherit Norway.
 

jrgen3

Field Marshal
145 Badges
Dec 2, 2012
3.827
544
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings III
Because exactly that happened :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lands_of_Denmark

"Bornholm is the only part to represent Scania after the rest of the region was lost to Sweden in 1658. (Bornholm was also lost in 1658, but was recovered two years later.)"

Bornholm is geographically closer to Scania, and as you can see, it was considered to be part of it.
Besides Denmark usually doesen't have problems with state numbers, even if they inherit Norway.
I know it happened :)
It's closer geographically, true. And AI Denmark will practically never run into problems with states, so I guess it doesn't really matter. It would only be a noticeable change for a human player, but a human will probably not lose Skåneland in the first place, so in the end, it wouldn't matter if it's in the Scania area or the Zealand/Denmark/Danish Islands area (I have no idea what it's called). It can be part of the Scania area (A.K.A. I retract my silly suggestion). It would look better on the areas map mode.
 

AirikrStrife

Bergakungen
19 Badges
Jul 30, 2010
1.804
727
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
As a norwegian, do you have any thoughts on norwegian NI and potential mission tree?

I made a very short tree here:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/scandinavian-mission-trees.1085530/

Of course my swedish tree is much more developed, and I guess it's justified given the differences in our history throughout the time. But a couple of more missions would be cool. Maybe some big building project or similiar which happened in norway can be represented (not just literally buildings/cities but building armies, universities etc)