EU4 - Dev Diary - October 1st 2015

[Zhetone]

And when I say "union" I mean Castilla leads the union, even though in real life Castile would have been the entity inherited in either of the cases.

Just like with England and Scotland really, the more powerful entity became dominant.

 

[TheDungen]

Just like with England and Scotland really, the more powerful entity became dominant.

Well except in the england-scottland case you can do it as either party. In the aragon castile case only castile can form spain diplomatically.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

Well except in the england-scottland case you can do it as either party. In the aragon castile case only castile can form spain diplomatically.

This issue should be fixed with all the countries having decision to unite either militarly or diplomatically.

 

[Druplesnubb]

Ok, here are some questions:
How will this be integrated with the mechanics for the Dutch Republic?
Isn't it weird that America gets a nobility estate? Maybe you should give the American and Federal Republics parliaments? Or maybe just rename the nobles to "landowners" or something for those government types?
Does this mean that Byzantium and the Balkans will have to deal with Cossacks now? I've always argued for switching Byzantium to Anatolian tech/units, but I don't quite know how to fix the problem in the Balkans.

 

[deezee]

I'm not sure if this has been asked already, but are people thinking about merging China's faction mechanic with the estate system? China could be given a unique set of estates with different bonuses and penalties in order to represent it in a way which is more broadly consistent with how other countries are represented.

 

[TheDungen]

Last we've been given is that china keeps it's old faction system. My guess is that they want to take time and redo it properly further down the line.

 

[blackchoas]

Last we've been given is that china keeps it's old faction system. My guess is that they want to take time and redo it properly further down the line.

except the Chinese factions don't really work the same way estates do, I mean Eunuchs and Confusion Bureaucrats didn't get angry or more powerful based on control of lands

 

[TheDungen]

except the Chinese factions don't really work the same way estates do, I mean Eunuchs and Confusion Bureaucrats didn't get angry or more powerful based on control of lands

Well neither did the burghers of europe.

 

[blackchoas]

Well neither did the burghers of europe.

yeah and that is why burghers dont demand any amount of land, but exactly what would u do with china if all 3 factions don't demand land? that seems to be the primary interaction between player and estates the giving and taking of land, maybe it could work but I feel like it would play radically differently from everywhere else and then you would have questions if successor states to ming should use normal estates or ming estates

 

[Golladan]

Wiz said that they might look into turning Ming's factions into estates sometime in the future but not in 1.14. You can find the post in that "Ming is getting something special" (or something like that) thread.

 

[TheDungen]

yeah and that is why burghers dont demand any amount of land, but exactly what would u do with china if all 3 factions don't demand land? that seems to be the primary interaction between player and estates the giving and taking of land, maybe it could work but I feel like it would play radically differently from everywhere else and then you would have questions if successor states to ming should use normal estates or ming estates

No but the burghers strenght will still be dependant on the amount of land they hold as I understand it. And if they're pissed you can placate them by giving them land.

 

[Chief of Staff]

Just realized that there is a parallel here between giving provinces to estate factions and the granting of landed titles in CK2. Even though those aren't exactly same thing, I'm wondering if that's kind of intentional. After all, you have to decide carefully on whom and when to grant landed titles and if appropriate in CK2, whereas assigning provinces to any of those estates probably entails similar decision-making processes (e.g. do you really want to empower nobles with more provinces or do you want to assign these to burghers instead?)

 

[TheDungen]

Just realized that there is a parallel here between giving provinces to estate factions and the granting of landed titles in CK2. Even though those aren't exactly same thing, I'm wondering if that's kind of intentional. After all, you have to decide carefully on whom and when to grant landed titles and if appropriate in CK2, whereas assigning provinces to any of those estates probably entails similar decision-making processes (e.g. do you really want to empower nobles with more provinces or do you want to assign these to burghers instead?)

Kind of yeah, I hope an ongoing theme will be removing power from the estates as the game goes on. As you centralise power away from the nobility the church and the guilds.

 

[Chief of Staff]

Kind of yeah, I hope an ongoing theme will be removing power from the estates as the game goes on. As you centralise power away from the nobility the church and the guilds.

Most of the monarchies of Europe at beginning of EU4 timeframe were already quite centralized than it was in CK2 timeframe. Still, I would probably say it's not as centralized as European countries are today so there is still a room to continue the process of consolidating the power in the hands of central government for rest of the EU4 timeframe.

I would venture to guess that the modern level of centralization did not come about until after the French Revolution when nobility and clergy effectively lost their preeminent influence and power in government permanently, despite the nobility's later return during the Bourbon Restoration which only temporarily revived to some extent their power and influence in there. Similarly, nobility's hold on levers of power in British parliament and by extension HM government suffered a big setback after 1832 Reform Act but that's out of EU4 timeframe.

 

[TheDungen]

Most of the monarchies of Europe at beginning of EU4 timeframe were already quite centralized than it was in CK2 timeframe. Still, I would probably say it's not as centralized as European countries are today so there is still a room to continue the process of consolidating the power in the hands of central government for rest of the EU4 timeframe.

I would venture to guess that the modern level of centralization did not come about until after the French Revolution when nobility and clergy effectively lost their preeminent influence and power in government permanently, despite the nobility's later return during the Bourbon Restoration which only temporarily revived to some extent their power and influence in there. Similarly, nobility's hold on levers of power in British parliament and by extension HM government suffered a big setback after 1832 Reform Act but that's out of EU4 timeframe.

I'd say france was lagging behind when the revolution happened, in fact that's why the revolution happened. And there are quite a lot of centralsiation happening in the EU4 era, that of language religion, administration. In 1444 the printing press (gutenberg's version) has just been invented, barely a fraction of the population can read or write how centralsied could they be? While some countries are halfway out of feudalism in 1444 many others have a long way to go.

 

[Chief of Staff]

I'd say france was lagging behind when the revolution happened, in fact that's why the revolution happened. And there are quite a lot of centralsiation happening in the EU4 era, that of language religion, administration. In 1444 the printing press (gutenberg's version) has just been invented, barely a fraction of the population can read or write how centralsied could they be? While some countries are halfway out of feudalism in 1444 many others have a long way to go.

Right, so there is still more centralizing to do in early modern era. Another good example of how government is still not totally centralized is the infamous Távora affair in Portugal which happened in mid-18th century that finally saw the nobility tamed for good there. Perhaps there could be events that increase or decrease the expectation of the nobility / other estates on how much provinces to control based on the strength of your military, technology, time, etc. to reflect the centralizing tendencies of your state.

At the beginning, obviously, the estates, especially the nobility, will have much leverage because your military started off relatively small and your tax base is relatively small against whatever resources, be it wealth or soldiers, that nobility commanded collectively. Also significant is their dominance of the officer corps which give them further leverage. It's possible that taking an idea that opens up officer corps to lower rank could reduce their leverage and thus reduce their expectation for how much provinces to control but at same perhaps impact your legitimacy or prestige.

 

[TheDungen]

Right, so there is still more centralizing to do in early modern era. Another good example of how government is still not totally centralized is the infamous Távora affair in Portugal which happened in mid-18th century that finally saw the nobility tamed for good there. Perhaps there could be events that increase or decrease the expectation of the nobility / other estates on how much provinces to control based on the strength of your military, technology, time, etc. to reflect the centralizing tendencies of your state.

At the beginning, obviously, the estates, especially the nobility, will have much leverage because your military started off relatively small and your tax base is relatively small against whatever resources, be it wealth or soldiers, that nobility commanded collectively. Also significant is their dominance of the officer corps which give them further leverage. It's possible that taking an idea that opens up officer corps to lower rank could reduce their leverage and thus reduce their expectation for how much provinces to control but at same perhaps impact your legitimacy or prestige.

Yes I think we need to see some interconnectivity between the ideas system and the estates.

 

[Grim Deadman]

Yes! Now we can do a Dynatoi/Barbatoi/Kommerkiarioi estate thing for the Romans! The thing never worked well for factions. We'll have to change the clergy icon though

 

[Atlantians]

Can the Irish get 'Pub Owners' instead of normal bland Burghers?

 

[Grim Deadman]

Can the Irish get 'Pub Owners' instead of normal bland Burghers?

...and the Nobility "Pub Crawlers"