EU4 Dev Clash #10 - Rule Britannia - Tuesdays 15:00 CET

[Bratyn]

I suppose StarNaN's game is to go for Revoke, but the way things play out, this clash still doesn't nearly have the same fire that previous rounds like the original Thunderdome or the Custom Nation setup. It's just that one huge fat powerblock and everyone is trying to somehow play around it until Byzantium comes anyways and picks the other players one by one (or maybe two by two).

I can tell you there's plenty members in the dev clash who feel the same way. It's even more frustrating to see everyone switch over to the blob's side rather than band together and contain it. You can't form a coalition out of people who'd rather take the easy way out.

 

[NADster]

An alliance between Byz & Aus is "all lies", as the Kaiser said. Or was it "allies" and I misheard him?

 

[NimitzOfStars]

I can tell you there's plenty members in the dev clash who feel the same way. It's even more frustrating to see everyone switch over to the blob's side rather than band together and contain it. You can't form a coalition out of people who'd rather take the easy way out.

Basically you need the HRE block but for the HRE block it has been a better move for them to expand their own power base while everyone is focused on Byz. Austria is gaining strength and bohemia can diplo annex Brandenburg then form Prussia, though not sure if they have all the provinces that they need.

Other then that who to the east can stop them? Byzantium main threat lies on western powers and their superior units starting at tech 19. Also it does look like they are falling behind in tech.

 

[po8crg]

I know it's half-score if you get a second country, but can you get back to full score if you retake your original lands, release and play as your original nation and then achieve independence?

 

[Lordban]

I can tell you there's plenty members in the dev clash who feel the same way. It's even more frustrating to see everyone switch over to the blob's side rather than band together and contain it. You can't form a coalition out of people who'd rather take the easy way out.

It's beginning to get frustrating as a viewer.

And I'm not throwing blame at @KaiserJohan here, mind you - the man managed to nearly multiply his size by 5 in 110 years from a central position in a densely populated MP, smacking many players around along the way (and just today two at a time!), this in spite of an actual coalition attempt at smacking him down already and years of delaying action from yourself - he deserved getting where he is.

But outside of that, I'm sort-of watching Johan getting preoccupied with what he was probably going to try and do all along (ally France to better contain their expansion - success - until he could conveniently let them die - getting there), StarNaN feeding on corpses and actively attacking potential allies, Guiseppe doing the latter but not even the former, and people generally looking the other way as more and more players in the major (and starting) western countries are being made irrelevant.

You tried to do something about the player who was the most threatening by far, and we've seen how that went - an effort that did not see full commitment nor recurrence and you were just left to die buying them time.

What's the reasoning there? "If I'm the last person in my starting country in 1821, I win?"

 

[Serpent]

And Sweden was obviously never considered an ally by Byzantium...

Did Sweden ever act like an ally, though?

Still, I'm sad to see you defeated, you fought well in this war. Although you could have and should have expanded far more last session, blocked Austria from taking the Danish isles and tied yourself more closely to one of the major power-blocks. I was surprised to see you so passive considering how Jake talks up your mp skill.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Being coalitioned several times is a bigger mistake imo

Afaik France has only been the target of one coalition war? Clearly an unecessary risk to take though. This is true.
Regardless there is always a story behind the scenes of these games but I am not the person to tell it

What I can say is it was a fun war as long as it lasted.

 

[Lordban]

Did Sweden ever act like an ally, though?

Still, I'm sad to see you defeated, you fought well in this war. Although you could have and should have expanded far more last session, blocked Austria from taking the Danish isles and tied yourself more closely to one of the major power-blocks. I was surprised to see you so passive considering how Jake talks up your mp skill.

In ForzaA's defense, his only mistake was not riding with Byzantium when Bratyn threw a coalition at them. He's performed admirably, but just didn't have room to grow and ran out of alliance options (his early one didn't look that hot until, well, there were fails And, well, Johan proved twice this session he is only an ally to better let you die) And Swedish ideas can only do so much when you're alone and don't even have an eighth of the DEV of the two alliances attacking you.

 

[Meneth]

Still, I do want to end on a positive note - I was really impressed by how Trin and Meneth almost managed to beat back that coalition. Shame on Johan for abandoning them (and shame on you for "defending" Sweden by fighting Aragon! ARAGON!); and while I want to shame StarNaN and Duplo for casually strolling in and breaking France's kneecaps after Trin and Meneth made such an amazing effort, I suppose they were Pope Man's allies and had to help him when 2:1 numbers weren't enough for him to win without their help.

It was a fun war.

Being coalitioned several times is a bigger mistake imo

No one was expecting a player (three towards the end) to join in. That was clearly a mistake.
Discounting the players, it is clear the coalition was quite beatable, since we did beat it even with one player on the coalition's side.
Still a mistake though. I'm fine with making mistakes. Given that the Central countries have removed any doubt whatsoever about whether they're fine with Byzantium winning the game, it isn't as if not making that mistake would've made any difference in the long run.
Being a single stab-hit from victory against 2:1 odds strings a bit, but that's life. If you play in EU4 MP, you get used to losing from time to time

Shout out to @KaiserJohan for playing so well, and to those who have tried to stop him.

 

[Vetgirig]

Kazani hordes have migrated east and invented a strange horse-less contraption known as a 'boat'. They also realized that, rather than mining gold out of the earth yourself, it is much easier to have others pay you gold when they pass by with their wares... 'Boats' seem to help with this.

Real sailors call them ships!

 

[Huldunguldlu]

I understand that Austria is trying not to get stomped until the whole HRE thing is ready, and I'm normaly rooting for StarNan ever since the last time he played Austria.
However, although this is a understandable move, I really don't get the reason behind attacking Sweden in this case.
Carsten put up a good fight against the Ottomans and he could have been even better, if there would just not have been like 80k troops invading him from the south west. This was, in my opinion, a perfect time for Austria to strike against a weakened Byzantium by allying a player with good military ideas and warfare skills, but the minimum would have been not to jump on that player to, and thus helping the only state that is really threatening for the StarNan at this point.
Also considering that the few conquered provinces in Sweden are not wealthy enough to justify this.

(for this session the "n" is small on purpose)

 

[dynalon]

And I'm not throwing blame at @KaiserJohan here, mind you - the man managed to nearly multiply his size by 5 in 110 years from a central position in a densely populated MP, smacking many players around along the way (and just today two at a time!), this in spite of an actual coalition attempt at smacking him down already and years of delaying action from yourself - he deserved getting where he is.

Oh yes, neither do I. I am absolutely impressed by what he has shown in both his dev clashes.

But it reminds me of the German football league for the last few years, where one team (Bayern Munich) is so dominant that other teams just decided to throw their games against them, give their key players a rest and sometimes even deliberately pulled their 5th yellow card so that the player in question would be banned on their match against Bayern. You couldn't blame Bayern for performing so well, but it still makes the whole competition hollow when it's practically decided 3 months ahead of time, and you can blame the other teams if they aren't even trying.

 

[sprites]

hmpf France & Spain played really well , only to be backstabbed for less than a month's time... sad.
Johan might win 3000 points but he'll lose them at the end , as usual.

 

[Lollius Palican]

Random Facts around Development!

Those are old numbers, and the alliances aren't right.
I might be forgetting some players, but AFAIK this is the situation at the moment:

Purple Phoenix Alliance: total dev 3.959
Byzantium 2115 + Persia 645 + Hungary 572 + Mali 627

Groog&Ming: total dev 1.906 (possibly 2.549)
Ming 1409 + Transoxiana 497 (and possibly Multan, +303 dev, and Khmer, +340 dev)

Central Powers: total dev 1.558-ish
Austria 740 + Papal State 318 + Bohemia ??? (let's assume 500, given great power score 374, 250 Bohemia proper + 250 Brandenburg)
(might be in cahoots with the Kaiser)

Franco-Castillians: total dev 1.058
France 592 + Spain 466 (maybe Holland? Doesn't show up anyway. I don't count Zeke as he hasn't been involved.)

Southeast Asia Coalition: total dev 961
Vijayanagar 598 + Pasai 363

North Sea Block: total dev 751
Great Britain 507 + Sweden ??? (let's assume 244)


Even if the 'Unholy Alliance' band together again, they only have half as many dev as Kaiser's alliance. So long the fearmongering on that front.
The only one who could stand against the Purple Phoenix, and that is not taking into account skill, quality, or cohesion of territory, is an expanded Groog&Ming alliance: not only including their 'maybes' and the Southeast Asia Coalition, but also Jaunpur, Mamluks and possibly BjörnB.

Also, I don't know why anyone would try to become allied to Byzantium atm. It's clear that he's willing to get rid of you (cough Persia) for personal gain, and apart from the only player that was with his from the start, Hungary, he won't allow you to have any good land.

 

[ForzaA]

Did Sweden ever act like an ally, though?

Visibly, perhaps not so much - but behind the scenes coordination *seemed* like a proper alliance from my POV (the dishonour on the Kazani coalition was coordinated)
Of course, the strength disparity was always there, and BYZ obviously decided that other potential puppets were more useful.

Although you could have and should have expanded far more last session, blocked Austria from taking the Danish isles

I would have, had that been conceivable at all.

and tied yourself more closely to one of the major power-blocks. I was surprised to see you so passive considering how Jake talks up your mp skill.

Early alliance betrayed me, Byzantium obviously only saw me as a useful temporary agent, Austria rebuffed me, France rebuffed me.

Trust me, I tried.
Sadly, if you start off in a weaker position, a lot depends on what long term value others see in you (certainly, the short term value of a Swedish alliance in early game isn't THAT high)

 

[Lord Lambert]

What I thought as soon as Dnote joined in as Ming

 

[Horn and Ivory]

I'm rooting for StarNaN. Turkish Byz is fake Byz. (and I want to see the revoke.)

StarNaN's old predicament is that if KJ goes down, he'll then be public enemy number 1, and what he still needs is to be in a position such that if KJ collapses, he will have such commanding strength and/or such a solid block of alliances that he won't be coalitioned to death himself. A France collapse might do this for him. We've already heard suggestions of Johan realigning himself into the Austria-Bohemia-Pope alliance axis: if the French collapse continues and Johan takes his victory cards on the continent, he'll need someone to defend them - his rubbish land army isn't going to do the job. StarNaN could be that person. If Johan moves solidly into the Central Powers faction, they'll be looking very strong indeed, and British naval power will neatly round out their alliance's capabilities. Central Powers + Johan could contain Byzantium imho. Given the sale of Dalmatia this session I don't think Hungary is going to wreck itself into the ground supporting Byz to the hilt against Austria, and Byz's other allies are if anything even more lukewarm.

An Anglo-Austrian alliance is also thoroughly historical, which is a definite point in its favour.

AEIOU

 

[Mekriff]

Still waiting for Servancour to show us what he can manage with Holland...

One day I want to see Holland expanding into a Byzantine corpse.

 

[jfoytek]

Jfoytek's Weekly Power Rankings Week 4

This Week we saw ForzaA's diplomatic flip flopping cost him dearly and the Eastern and Western Roman Empire working in tandem?!?
Plus the implosion of the Unholy alliance hurting the one country it was most likely too!!!

10) Last Week: Bratyn

This Week: Sidestep (Previously 8th) Fell 2 Places

Sidestep has an entire session to prove he could stand on his own two feet, but failed to use that time to expand his lands in Lithuania? Perhaps Bjorn tag switched a bit early as Lithuania came thru this session relatively un-touched. Shame on you Hungry, your a world power, act like one! You can declare your own war for your own benifit....There is only so long that your smart alliance decision with the Kaiser Johan can keep you on this list.

9) Last Week: Nutsoman

This Week: Pizzicato (Previously Unranked) Moved up 2 Places

Pizzicato made some nice aggressive moves into India this session and has managed to keep his alliance intact while owning some of the Kaiser Johan's victory cards. Will this alliance endure or will it fall bye the wayside?!? Its hard to gauge at this point but it does seem like the Kaiser Johan is making a strong attempt at proving he is an honorable diplomat this session with really only the one major backstab, and to be fair ForzaA brought that on himself.

8) Last Week: Sidestep

This Week: Fido (Previously Unranked) Moved up 3 Places

While missing the first session and then not really being allowed to play thanks to a cruel starNaN we finally see Fido starting to look like the Fido we all know and love. In classic Fido style we saw him integrate the country's around him and his development and economy is growing just as we expect to see from Fido. However will he get the tech to be relevant? Should be interesting to see what kind of a role he will have in the world down the road, as Africa is shaping up to be an interesting location this play thru!

7) Last Week: Trin Tragula

This Week: Johan (Previously 4th) Fell 3 Places

This was not a good week for the Unholy alliance as it all but imploded in on itself, and it seems that Johan's true colors have shinned thru, he had every opportunity to try and back up France and Spain who were in a desperate fight that any help England could have lent likely could have tipped the tide long before Austria jumped into the ring. It is interesting to note that the implosion actually benefited Johan in the short term, as he has been able to pick up Victory cards in Brittany. But long term this is a catastrophic shift in the balance of power in the game. I doubt the Unholy alliance will ever be seen as a threat strong enough to slow down Byzantine Horde. So Long term how will England be relevant? Will they hug the Eastern or Western Roman Empire or try to go it alone?

6) Last Week: Duplo

This Week: Katz/Meneth (Previously 5th) Fell 1 Place

To be fair Meneth performed the duties as a substitute admirably, and I would argue a case that I would Rent a Meneth before a starNaN anytime! But ultimately the small drop in rank is more due to everything else that happened around the world and not really due to Meneth's great or bad play! Again as sub's go there is NONE better in my opinion. Well unless you can talk "Wiz" into subbing then maybe there is one better.

5)Last Week: Katz

This Week: Duplo (Previously 6th) Moved up 1 Place

Last week Duplo showed us he could work on his own behalf, independent of the starNaN but this week we saw literally the opposite, what we saw this week was a team that seemed to be very much in sync, and on the same page, this ability to be staunchly loyal ally's in lockstep and yet still capable to work separately on there own makes this team a very scary one! I expect to see Duplo having a very major roll for the long haul in determining the outcome of this Dev Clash!

4) Last Week: Johan

This Week: Guiseppe Garibaldi (Previously Unranked) Moved up 7 Places

Okay so the Pope fell out of the top 10 last week, he went a bit passive and other people made more noise. But boy oh boy did the Pope shake things up this session with maybe the most brilliant move of the entire session orchestrating the implosion of the Unholy Alliance. Did the pope gain much from this war? -3 Stability a lot of points spent raising his stability and a country on the edge of chaos, and yet he pulled thru it. But does this major shift in the balance of power ultimately lead to good things for the Pope? Yes he maybe able to eat into France in the future with more ease, but without the Unholy alliance is the Eastern Roman Empire going to continue to be so cooperative with the Western Roman Empire?!? Maybe this move wasn't that brilliant and I have shot him up this list just because he rocked the boat! Guess we will find out next week...

3) Last Week: ForzaA

This Week: Nutsoman (Previously 9th) Moved up 6 Places

A bunch of savages in Africa are a Great Power? Mali has an incredible amount of development and they are now allied with the Fake Byzantine Horde. Which is going to give them an all you can eat buffet on the Mameluke's in the near future. Whens the last time we have seen an African Minor become a Major?!? Nutsoman's growth is nothing short of impressive, and I can help but root for the savages in Africa this Dev Clash. Go Mali and Go Kongo!!!


2)Last Week: StarNan

This Week: Kaiser Johan (Previously 1st) BIG Change

Okay I know there are going to be a ton of people disagreeing with this power ranking this week! And likely because I have just moved StarNaN ahead of Kaiser Johan in the power rankings but I am doing this with one MAJOR reason. This week he failed to take Rome, while the pope was surely shaking things up in the world and pushing on the unholy alliance it left the back door wide open for the Byzantines to exploit the opportunity! And as opportunity's go they don't get much nicer then the one that Kaiser Johan passed up. Which leads me to the next MAJOR reason. When it looks like a duck and it talks like a duck and it walks like a duck its PROBABLY a duck. Who Benifits the most from an alliance between the Eastern and Western Roman Empires??? And there is one simple answer to that question! StarNaN. Bye entering into this obvious hug box Kaiser Johan you are only making your most obvious Rival in the world Stronger! Like Bratyn did last dev clash bye allowing you three game sessions to grow into the unstoppable Prussia.

1)Last Week: K Johan

This Week: StarNaN (Previously 2nd) BIG Change

This week we saw a world whose strings were pulled bye the Puppet master, StarNaN. It was very clear there was some Major collaboration going down behind the scenes and that type of collaboration only helps the 2nd strongest country in the world catch up with the strongest. The Fake Byzantines are getting played like a fiddle but will it happen next session?
Will the Fake Byzantines continue to give Austria a free pass to dictate the fate of Europe? With the implosion of the unholy alliance nothing is in the way to keep the HRE from growing fast and fat! Nothing if the only country that is a threat continues to act in unison, giving the second strongest country in the world all the time in the world to become the strongest country in the world. There use to be a three way balance of power where if, the East attacked the West then the Unholy alliance could jump in or vice vrsa. But now that balance is severally disrupted. Will Kaiser Johan act?


***Is a Dnote played Ming capable of being a fallen empire like deterent, I sadly don't believe it is. And unless Kaiser Johan fails to bring the fight to the central powers next session this game is now offically from my point of view in the bag for the Fake Byzantine Horde, however if he gives the HRE another session of hug boxing then he may infact end up giving this game away to StarNaN***

 

[hillcf]

One, obvious, thought on the plans of Kaizer Johan is that he needs to be big and strong enough by the mid 1670s period so that he can survive the better military that the western countries would then get. Hence a plan to remove or minimise them.

But just hope that he does not get to the Baltics and convert to Prussia