Enhancing Realism in Warfare: Some Ideas to Diminish Arcade Elements in the Game

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Gaucho ARG

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Hello,

I've been contemplating ideas that could enhance the dynamism and realism of the game, moving away from arcade-like mechanics and towards a more authentic military simulation.

Some of these ideas may lend themselves well to modding, while others might require fundamental changes to the game:

  1. Motorized Supply Consumption of Fuel: Currently, motorized supply seems overpowered. The ability to simply produce trucks and magically improve supply in provinces is unrealistic. It also gives Germany an advantage during Barbarossa. Additionally, the AI's failure to build supply hubs leads to stalemates on all fronts. This issue persists into the late war when the Allies stack up on the frontlines, slowing down the game and causing stagnation due to negative buffs. So motorized supply should consume fuel. This would make the front easy to brake in the less supply regions or when the enemy is out of fuel, making the fronts more dynamic.
  2. Air Supply: In terms of air warfare, the ability to have 2k planes flying uninterrupted on each side seems unrealistic. It would be a logistical and managerial feat. Yet, in the game, it just works. All you have to do is spam better planes to win the air war. Air supply also needs a rework in order to make the player and AI choose wisely when to use the air force.
  3. AI Unit Spam: Another significant issue is AI unit spam, likely to worsen with new DLCs adding more units to the map. This leads to slower computation. Limiting non-core countries to a certain number of units could help mitigate this, although it's not entirely realistic. Perhaps a new conscription law could be introduced to severely limit manpower for countries not directly involved, thus curbing AI spam.
  4. Guerrilla Warfare Mechanics: While there's a guerrilla warfare tactic, its application is very random. The Guerrilla Warfare general trait, affecting entrenchment speed, isn't particularly useful if German units can easily pierce defenses. Maybe have the ability to delete supply hubs or lower infrastructure.
  5. Production Caps: There's currently no cap on production or storage, resulting in an infinite war machine. While reflecting reality to some extent, this contributes to future stalemates on the frontlines. Implementing production caps could force players to consider tactics and strategy more carefully.
  6. Research Rework: Research should be reworked to reflect historical capabilities. Minor nations should have limited research trees, perhaps only up to 1936 or less advanced tech. Limiting research to countries realistically capable of producing certain technologies could enhance realism. Alternatively, penalizing research times for minor nations attempting to reach advanced tech levels they historically wouldn't have achieved could be implemented. Additionally, making research tech only available through focus trees could be considered.
For example, in one way the game and strategy work in a meaningful way: Using historical USA and choosing raiding fleet navy idea tree. Just having 100 tier 2 subs raiding the JAP oceans severely damage and destroy the convoy fleet of the JAP, thus making a supply hell for them and making them easy to invade but also losing some edge of naval battles for the USA following the raiding path. Land guerrilla warfare should work the same way but it doesn't.

These are just a few ideas for enhancing HoI4's realism. At some point, the current state of HoI4 is more like a produce-and-throw-manpower-with-guns-at-the-frontline manager than an actual wargame with meaningful strategic thinking and tactics. I'm eager to hear readers' suggestions for further improvements.
 
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Motorized Supply Consumption of Fuel: Currently, motorized supply seems overpowered. The ability to simply produce trucks and magically improve supply in provinces is unrealistic. It also gives Germany an advantage during Barbarossa. Additionally, the AI's failure to build supply hubs leads to stalemates on all fronts. This issue persists into the late war when the Allies stack up on the frontlines, slowing down the game and causing stagnation due to negative buffs. So motorized supply should consume fuel. This would make the front easy to brake in the less supply regions or when the enemy is out of fuel, making the fronts more dynamic.

Iirc this was discussed during the introduction of fuel as a resource that is used up, but i'm no longer sure why it was exactly decided against by the developers. Either because of time constraints, technical limitations, because it couldn't be introduced in a bug free way or simply because of a different vision for the gameplay. Whatever the case, it was definetly something that was discussed at some point but it remains to be seen whether it will be introduced or not. I'm neutral on this issue.

  1. Air Supply: In terms of air warfare, the ability to have 2k planes flying uninterrupted on each side seems unrealistic. It would be a logistical and managerial feat. Yet, in the game, it just works. All you have to do is spam better planes to win the air war. Air supply also needs a rework in order to make the player and AI choose wisely when to use the air force.
  2. AI Unit Spam: Another significant issue is AI unit spam, likely to worsen with new DLCs adding more units to the map. This leads to slower computation. Limiting non-core countries to a certain number of units could help mitigate this, although it's not entirely realistic. Perhaps a new conscription law could be introduced to severely limit manpower for countries not directly involved, thus curbing AI spam. Production Caps: There's currently no cap on production or storage, resulting in an infinite war machine. While reflecting reality to some extent, this contributes to future stalemates on the frontlines. Implementing production caps could force players to consider tactics and strategy more carefully.

All of these 3 problems go together i think. There are far too many units, planes and amounts of equipment on the field. Especially the number of planes is highly inflated in my opinion, as are the stats in general. However i believe this is fixable, hopefully when the team will look at tackling powercreep. And planes are in dire need of a seperate pilot pool, which will definetly make the mechanics of aerial warfare more realistic.

Research Rework: Research should be reworked to reflect historical capabilities. Minor nations should have limited research trees, perhaps only up to 1936 or less advanced tech. Limiting research to countries realistically capable of producing certain technologies could enhance realism. Alternatively, penalizing research times for minor nations attempting to reach advanced tech levels they historically wouldn't have achieved could be implemented. Additionally, making research tech only available through focus trees could be considered.

Like some ways to research stuff can be locked behind industry requirements, sure. Like nukes for example. But i don't believe restricting tank research for instance or limiting improvements in mining technology will improve realism. Most of the restrictions came when it was time to build them, not research itself.

The arcade nature is what makes it so popular IMO.

I don't think that for example reduced unit numbers would affect the popularity of the game. People are simply dealing with what they are used to and nobody is playing the game solely because he can have 10000 fighters be in the same air zone as 10000 enemy fighters.
 
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Recipe to make game even more boring.

Is matter of scope, is a hoi4 a game for a global war waged for years or a game to local scope, so to fight over a city for months(i mean months in our real time)? its seems some players like "company of heroes" or microscale games.

I migrate from RTS to Hoi4 because of macro scale.

Also last unit cut made game more boring, need more units, not less.
 
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Get me RL armoured DIVs not being able to run with no fuel supply even half a day :) And an MTBF of 150-300kms the way it really was. HoI4 armoured DIVs will hardly move to the next tile save the tile after that without replacing engines/transmissions plus suspension in most cases. Means half a tank.
 
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If you want realism on steroids play Gary Grigsby's War in the East and West where it takes hours to advance one week (turn). While I'm certainly in favor of increasing the realism of HOI4 in reasonable ways I don't think major overhauls are needed as you're alluding to. The AI is already bad enough as it is, complicating the game's systems further would probably be a net negative.
 
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Get me RL armoured DIVs not being able to run with no fuel supply even half a day :) And an MTBF of 150-300kms the way it really was. HoI4 armoured DIVs will hardly move to the next tile save the tile after that without replacing engines/transmissions plus suspension in most cases. Means half a tank.
yeah its seems some gamers want Hoi4 cover too much a micro-scope, something that existed in RTS.

I moved away from RTS and come to hoi series because larger scope and macro-scale.

I think most of these things focus on "important battles" could be achiev with just urban warfare overhaul.
 
If you want realism on steroids play Gary Grigsby's War in the East and West where it takes hours to advance one week (turn). While I'm certainly in favor of increasing the realism of HOI4 in reasonable ways I don't think major overhauls are needed as you're alluding to. The AI is already bad enough as it is, complicating the game's systems further would probably be a net negative.
Woah i didn't know that game, it looks very complicated o_O . I also didn't mean to transform hoi4 into that type of game. Sometimes the game feels like you can win a battle only doing the current meta. That is what i dont find realistic. Like for example: with the soviets i can only stop germany by building forts.. if i have a good supplied infantry division with enough piercing and a contested air space, i still cannot stop the german advance .
 
Woah i didn't know that game, it looks very complicated o_O . I also didn't mean to transform hoi4 into that type of game. Sometimes the game feels like you can win a battle only doing the current meta. That is what i dont find realistic. Like for example: with the soviets i can only stop germany by building forts.. if i have a good supplied infantry division with enough piercing and a contested air space, i still cannot stop the german advance .
The AI is terrible sadly, and only the Soviets are allowed to produce units.
 
AI Unit Spam: Another significant issue is AI unit spam, likely to worsen with new DLCs adding more units to the map. This leads to slower computation. Limiting non-core countries to a certain number of units could help mitigate this, although it's not entirely realistic. Perhaps a new conscription law could be introduced to severely limit manpower for countries not directly involved, thus curbing AI spam.

Guerrilla Warfare Mechanics: While there's a guerrilla warfare tactic, its application is very random. The Guerrilla Warfare general trait, affecting entrenchment speed, isn't particularly useful if German units can easily pierce defenses. Maybe have the ability to delete supply hubs or lower infrastructure.

Production Caps: There's currently no cap on production or storage, resulting in an infinite war machine. While reflecting reality to some extent, this contributes to future stalemates on the frontlines. Implementing production caps could force players to consider tactics and strategy more carefully.

Research Rework: Research should be reworked to reflect historical capabilities. Minor nations should have limited research trees, perhaps only up to 1936 or less advanced tech. Limiting research to countries realistically capable of producing certain technologies could enhance realism. Alternatively, penalizing research times for minor nations attempting to reach advanced tech levels they historically wouldn't have achieved could be implemented. Additionally, making research tech only available through focus trees could be considered.
op frames changes as reducing the arcade elements of the game but these things do not appear to make the game more realistic in any coherent fashion.

and what are you going to do if the nation capped on '36 goes and conquers russia anyway? say it's not realistic so the game just ignores that it happens? is breaking internal consistency somehow less arcade like? i know the kaiserreich mod seems to like stuff like that but i don't think vanilla needs it
 
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op frames changes as reducing the arcade elements of the game but these things do not appear to make the game more realistic in any coherent fashion.

and what are you going to do if the nation capped on '36 goes and conquers russia anyway? say it's not realistic so the game just ignores that it happens? is breaking internal consistency somehow less arcade like? i know the kaiserreich mod seems to like stuff like that but i don't think vanilla needs it
I was toying with ideas on how to make it more realistic. Do you think the game is good in its current state? or do you think it needs some changes in certain parts? in regards to realism. Other than the ideas i wrote, i think the tactics system needs a rework, maybe some kind of player input.
 
I was toying with ideas on how to make it more realistic. Do you think the game is good in its current state? or do you think it needs some changes in certain parts? in regards to realism. Other than the ideas i wrote, i think the tactics system needs a rework, maybe some kind of player input.
Personally I would place a higher priority in redrawing provinces and adding coastal forces and shattered retreats. Not every encirclement involved annihilation, generally some subunits broke out and generally most forces backed on to friendly shores or impassable terrain at least got some of their men away.
 
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The shattered retreat is a good idea! maybe a general ability that "paratroop" or extract units from pockets to a closer owned tile while loosing manpower and equipment.
 
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