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Originally posted by Martinus

I know, I know. I am going back to my box :)

Well, let's see:

Wielkopolska
Hinterpommern

which one is longer? :)
Click to expand...

Ok, but it hasn't such a weird sequence of letters. Maybe our American friends can jugde on this, because the game is manly for the American market. I don't want German names for Polish provinces, but maybe some easier names, like Poznan.

cu Friedrich
 
Actually, Hinterpommern has striken me as a weird sequence of letters the first time I saw the name. But, you're right, let the English speaking people decide.

(actually Hinterpommern has 13 letters and only 4 vowels in it. You can almost break your tongue during pronounciation :))
 
Actually, to keep both the Germans and the Poles happy, the western Pommeranian province should have been Pommern, the eastern Pomorze.

But there's no way you can please everyone when dealing with provinces that were partially German-speaking, partially Polish-speaking, and which had a Polish ruling dynasty while part of a German Empire...
 
Originally posted by Friedrich der Große


Ok, but it hasn't such a weird sequence of letters. Maybe our American friends can jugde on this, because the game is manly for the American market. I don't want German names for Polish provinces, but maybe some easier names, like Poznan.

cu Friedrich
Click to expand...

LOL

I don't think the game is mainly for the American market; really it's quite international in scope. If it were solely for the consumption of Americans, they would be Nearer and Farther (or Western and Eastern) Pommerania, or, more likely, "Them places over there near Germany and whatnot" :D
 
look this maps and try to compare it with bounders of croatia/hungary and last eu2 screenshot

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/ottoman1683_shepherd.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/europe1560_shepherd.jpg
http://www.croatemb.or.id/Maps.html
http://www.historicaltextarchive.com/hungary/hu15.gif

take at mine that river Drava is baundary betwen Croatia and Hungary
all at north is Hungary, all at Sauth from Drava is Croatia
Enybady who can see samthing wrong with western borders of Croatia at last screenshot of EUII let sey AY :(

I see no more point of puting more explenations as post will be deleted enewey
 
Originally posted by Hrv123
I see no more point of puting more explenations as post will be deleted enewey
Click to expand...

Not if the tone of the post is reasonable. Passages in all Capitals are considered shouting throughout the internet communities as you well know. As such they are rude.
Careful considered sentences are more likely to be read than a "wall of text" anyway.
 
Originally posted by Martinus
Actually, Hinterpommern has striken me as a weird sequence of letters the first time I saw the name. But, you're right, let the English speaking people decide.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but Hinterpommern is a much easier name for English-speakers than Wielkopolska. :)
 
Originally posted by Hrv123
with bounders of croatia/hungary and l
Enybady who can see samthing wrong with western borders of Croatia at last screenshot of EUII let sey AY :(
Click to expand...

The Croatian/Hungarian situation is one of the things being heavily discussed in the Beta forum right now. We'll try and do our best, but I hope everyone understands that it's impossible to absolutely please everyone....
 
tis true they are constrained in provinces by game mechanics of using rivers as borders rather than allow them to split provs...i personally would lvoe to see far more breakdown of provinces...literally 3 or 4 times as many provinces...this would make things easier to map around rivers as provinces can be split east and west etc, plus dividing resources would be easier as far as different kinds of produces available in that region ...many provinces were equally high exporters/producers or 2 or 3 dif resources...although my one fix of having 2 resources for each prov plus having 2 demands for each prov wasnt taken hehe...this would cover that aspect by allowing your country toi benfit form the various resources that historically were available...also more provs would make defending them more difficult as harder to close the borders with walls of armies...also breaking provinces down would allow for more breakdown on religion in areas <many moslem provs had high orthodox pops <constantinople prov in eu for example and crimea-- and vise versa...orthodox provs in golden horde but had lots of moslem regions..if provinces were broken up some of these could be more accurately portrayed
 
The Croatian/Hungarian situation is one of the things being heavily discussed in the Beta forum right now. We'll try and do our best, but I hope everyone understands that it's impossible to absolutely please everyone....
Click to expand...

Western Croatian Border shuld be in same wertical line with Presburg and Odenburg
Dump Krain name for good!Its noth there in EU!
BY my observation renaming Krain into Croatia and Croatia into Slavonia is the most simple solution and moste acurate withaut more borders changing
I do hope sombody see Krain is noth there were is locateted
in EUII

here this is EXACTLY location were shuld western Croatian border be and were shuld be Krain
Hope you can all see difrences on where is Western borders here and in EUII
http://www.kolumbus.fi/solmyr/europa-eu.gif

You mast see what Im talking abauth
 
Originally posted by Hrv123


Western Croatian Border shuld be in same wertical line with Presburg and Odenburg
Dump Krain name for good!Its noth there in EU!
BY my observation renaming Krain into Croatia and Croatia into Slavonia is the most simple solution and moste acurate withaut more borders changing
I do hope sombody see Krain is noth there were is locateted
in EUII

here this is EXACTLY location were shuld western Croatian border be and were shuld be Krain
Hope you can all see difrences on where is Western borders here and in EUII
http://www.kolumbus.fi/solmyr/europa-eu.gif

You mast see what Im talking abauth
Click to expand...

I think that they do. As Demetrios has stated this is being discussed in the beta forms. I will make sure they see this post. :)
 
OK, loooong post with no space in it. Try pressing enter once in a while to begin a new row/paragraph =)

Anyway, you have a few errors/misconceptions in there that I would like to point out.

Originally posted by dralizaar

<the was no country of prussia just the Duchy of Prussia which was in fact Teutonic order vassaled to poland..and retaining this vassalization even after the conversion to protestantism>


Prussia was a vassal to Poland until the peace in Oliwa 1660, after which it belonged to Brandenburg. 1701 it was made into the kingdom Prussia (incorporating Brandenburg).

by taking away the ownership of Hungary and Bohemia early on from late 1400's to 1526 poland;s King's son ruled Hungary and Bohemia...


Um, you got that backwards by missing the events that lead a king of Polish origin in Bohemia/Hungary to 1526.
It was a HUNGARIAN king that ruled POLAND from 1370 (Lajos/Louis I/Ludwik). He "inherited" the throne since his mother was Polish (his father was actually from the French Anjou family to futher complicate matters).

Since he died without any male heirs his two daughters married Jaggellio of Lithuania (controlling Poland) and Zsigmond of Luxembourg (controlling Hunagry and Bohemia to 1437).
1437-39 Zsigmonds son in law from the Habsburg family was king in HUN/BOH.

After this the crown was contested by his son (László V) and the Polish king (Wladyslaw Warnenzyk / Úlászló I). The Polish king was killed in battle vs Turks (1444) and László ruled BOH/HUN until 1457 after which he was succeded by Mátyás (a real hungarian for once =).

After Mátyás, the polish prince and king of Bohemia was elected king of Hungaria. However this was AGAINST the wish of the Polish king that wanted to have his other son, inheriter of the polish throne, as king also over Hungary.

For added spice a 3rd brother was at the time king of Lithuania.

To summarize, it is true that BOH+HUN was ruled by A Polish King (not THE Polish king), but it's not true that Poland controlled/vassalised BOH+HUN which you seem to suggest.
Intermarriage & "loaning kings" between different countries was very commonplace back then. However the POL-BOH-HUN strong relations should indeed be represented by high relations, RM and possibly even an alliance.

But if Poland "owns" Bohemia & Hungary in 1485-1526 then by the same logic Hungary should "own" Poland in the 1370ies (or possibly France since that is where the hungarian king originated from).
In that case, why don't we just make entire POL-HUN-BOH vassals to France in 1419?



the point is we KNOW western europe is favored..and the game company is makign efforts to gradually fix it...but they wont realize how important these fixes are unless we continue to voice our concerns and corrections...they listen more so than most companies and hopefully they can accomodate our desires eventually...I love EU and i suspect i will love EU2...and I know in advance that i will likely have to correct things in eastern europe as usual..iand i will of course post my changes for thos that are interested


I agree with you fully that estern europe was (and relatively speaking still is) neglected.
Paradox is still a small company with very limited resources. Consequently the areas most accurately depicted in the game will be western europa, since it's more of common knowledge in Sweden.

However there is nothing preventing you or anyone else with vast knowledge of Eastern European history to help out in setting straight "neglected areas" even once the game comes out.
For EU1 this was done with IGC, and with the new very powerful eventsystem in EU2 I bet that litterally hundreds of history buffs all over the world will start writing new, high quality/historical events. Some of these might even find itself trickeling itself into official Paradox patches.
 
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originally poted by HRV123
take at mine that river Drava is baundary betwen Croatia and Hungary
all at north is Hungary, all at Sauth from Drava is Croatia
Click to expand...

Well, HRV123 I agree about the Krain thing, but Slavonia I am afraid was not part of Croatia in 1419, neither in 1492, but a part of Hungary. As You probably know, after the Turkish invasion of the Balkans, especially in the XVIII-XVIII centuries Croats, Serbs and Bosnians started to move norhtwards and they polpulated those territories previously populated by Hungarians, that is the sole reason why there was a slavic mjority population there after Hungary was finally reunited in 1848 (1867). So I agree with You that Krain should be renamed Croatia (with Zagreb as the city), and I am still convinced that it should belong to Hungary, with an option for rebelling against it some time (would still be unhistoric as they were no rbellions against Hungarian rule before 1492. As for Slavonia it was an integral part of Hungary no question about that!

Cheriooooo:D :D
 
Prussia:
in 1410 the Teutonic order was defeated..its lands included western pommerania including gdansk/danzig, prussia and the region known as Inflants <estonia and livonia>...after several wars after their defeat at tannenburg in 1410 they ended up yielding first Gdnask/west pommerania to poland and they themselves were forced to move their capitol to marionburg and become vassals to Poland <this was referred to as the secularization of Prussia> there is little info on the rest of the Teutonic order till referrences in 1500's when 2 seperate wars were fought against Russia with Poland's help..both times Russia tried to annex them and both times Polish troops drove them off..the second time culminating at Battle of Pskov where Ivan the terrible was defeated soundly.

After this battle , in gratitude the Inflants asked for and recieved membership/union in the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth...Prussia retained its vassalization even after its conversion to lutheranism at which point it became known as the Duchy of Prussia before later evnetually becoming a small realm which later merged with Brandenburg...so one could argue that Prussia should not exist as a nation but rather as a revolter for the TO..however one would them have to create a nation called inflants which would be in that region <estonia and livonia> in addition to the TO which would have memel and East Prussia as Inflants was included int eh vassalziation of TO but run but its own leaders within the order...it was their vassalziation which drew polish troops to defend them agaisnt russia and eventually allowed them to join the union willingly...TO based in Prussia itself was still a vassal into 1600's <sweden invaded this region and poland defended it losing part of its recently gained inflants region to them ..livonia part earlier on and the rest later at hands of GA2...GA2 had troops that penetrated deep along coast into Prussia and Danzig regions> so while half of the TO joined poland the other half did not

Polish politics... agreed relations would need be higher between Hungary Poland and Bohemia...while with the inclusions of military pasasages treatys i can agree hungary would not be vassal to poland but merely in marriage with and allied to poland with MA agreements...however from what ive read i would still tend to think Bohemia should actually be vassal to hungary during large part of that era..the control was much more absolute than the relations between poland and hungary and other nations using foreign rulers

Also the region along border of golden horde/crimea <country didnt exist realy on some maps of that era except as the golden horde...no delineation for crimea till later and khazan unsure when these were or werent nations seperate> was called the "wild lands" it was a region of unclaimed lands along the huge border including parts of the ukraine...this region was lacking in cities and included many "tribes" or freemen as the cossacks called themselves...this was a buffer state nominally controlled by Poland till 1640 when the cossack rebellions began..this region was quite vast...and while many ukrainians <ruthenians> had been absorbed in earlier expansions by poland and or Lithuania and Hungary, Moldavia and Golden Horde/Crimea...there were sufficient free warriors in this region not paid for by the government who fought tartar raids all along the border with Russia and Poland/lith...many areas if this region eventually became settled and grew <polish colonists and even russians in some areas> which built the region up and brought growth and stability to the region...however when Poland signed an agreement with the current cossack leader in 1640 for the formal annexation of Ukraine into Polands union <they were vassals to this point in truth for many many years...perhaps as far back as the union beginnings of Poland and lith> the russians fearing this incited a rebellion in some parts of Ukraine where the orthodoxs had greatest numbers and played on their fears...then offering military support as the rebellion broke out...this "rebellion" ended up in poland and Russia splitting th region in peace...lands west of Dneipr stayed polish whiule lands east became russian...this was the first actual decline for the current polish kingdom as it failed to protect its new territories <the deluge occurred bringin hordes of Swedes and their mercs plus Russians and Tartar raids all over>

point is there should be either a strip of land between golden horde/poland/russia borde which they can colonize...all should have revolt risks for 1640 era for rising as independant ukraine
 
WOW! what a discowery

People youst checked Slavonia history and Im shamed that I actualy forget this info abauth Slavonia....
The point is

Slavonia was Kingdom noth a province!!!!!!!
And it actualy is writen in ewry medival book of Croatia history and I owerse it!!!!
King Bela IV after Mongols were gone start reformmation of Kingdom and he make new administrative divading of Croatian Kingdom
he divaidet it into 2 separat part
1 is "Banovina hrvatsko-dalmatinska" whic did take name "Kigdom of Croatia" and Dalmatia ("Regnum Croatie et Dalmatie") and 2 one

that was given new name, and this is first time in history that this regia was none of "Slavonia" ( < land of Slavs)

But was wery interested that Slavonia was taken from teritory of Kingdom of Croatia , noth Kingdom of Hungary.
Slavonia was at start ben given status of Kingdom
("Regnum Slavoniae"),noth a hungarian province province
haved its sabor same as Croatia to the sauth
same lows as croats in croatia, also haved its one ban

and what is funy part
Slavonia was releted to Croatia same wey Croata was reletet to hungary
King of Slavonia is King of Croatia
and King of Croatia is king of Hungary
:)



The theory that Slavonia was populated by Mayars is incorect

becose
1. at coming to this regia Croats setled and formed 3 states

1. White Croatia also none as Adriatic one
2. Red Croatia that was on sauth from White Croatia on Adriatic coast to the sauth
and
3.Posavska Croatia ( withc was in 13 ct ben renamed into Slavonia)


Panonian Croatia were populated by Croats abauth ~620 ac >
ACtualy Names of it Croatian Knez(leders)are stil none
and there is leter i finkh send to the Knez of Adriatic Croatia to help brathers Croats in Posavska Croatia in rebelion agenst Franks ... Posavska and White(Adriatic) Croatia were vassals of Franks aka 700- ~800 ac
After 7 armys were sent to posavska Croatia from Franks to destroy rebelion ,all armys were destroyed by fighting and ATRITION :) hehe
After this failor franks ask (demand)from White Croatia to destroy Posavska Croats rebelion... and it did :(

Here are names of Posavian Croatia Knezs
Vojnomir
Ljudevit Posavski , he was knez who rebell agenst Franks in rebellion of 819-822
Ratimir 838
Mutimir 872
Braslav 899

In time of Hungarian invasion
ruler of Adriatic Croatia was Knez Tomislav 910-928
Hungarians marched into Posavska Croatia and owerun it and continue to march toward Adriatic Croatia..

Knez Tomislav raised army ... met hungarians and haved ben wictorius in battle...
he continue to persue Hungarians all the way auth of Posavska Croatia to the north to the river Drava!
hungarians were settled by some point leter on in 12/13 ct but in Estern Part of Slavonia none as BARANJA today....
(ANd people shuld no that what was/were and it shape of Croatia,DAlmatia and Slavonia as provinces is noth same before Ottomans and after ottomans as they onsloth totaly changed historical borders of midleage Croatia/Dalmati/Slavonia and leter ones borders after ottomans arive...)


Knez Tomislav was ben given tile of King from popethen Annex or unite( whatewer you like more ) Posavska Croatia to Adriatic Croatia (stil 2 principialitis) and proclame one
"kingdom of Croatia"
At same time He did ben wictorius agenst bulgars (Simeon )and was growe so powerful that all Bizant Dalmatia was given to him from Bizant as reward for crusing Bulgars!!

Ewry kid in Croatia no this and its mentioned also in the leter of one pope and by more document from Bizant sources also .. will get info whic one Grgur .... VII but noth shure

The claiming of hungarians living in Panonian Croatia then ... well
then would probly name of Slavonia be Hungaria .. noth Slavonia land of SLAVES ;)

As i can figure auth people of the world have no corect info abauth Croatian history
I will get History atlas as fast I can and poste full mega history tread of Croats in history forum
Im bite supraised you Madars people donth no this abauth Posavska Croatia and Slavonia Kingdom from 13ct :confused:
What did you learn in school ??? didyou learn Hungarians were setled there ?? its damn strange what you sead ?

here look at this map its iwen shoven Posavska croatia but under name of sava ..whic is same "posavska" mens :"araund river Sava"
and Sava is .. river Sava :)
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big0900.htm

????
 
posted by HRv123
Ewry kid in Croatia no this and its mentioned also in the leter of one pope and by more document from
Click to expand...

I am afraid that, just because You learn it that way in (Croatian) schools does not mean it actually happened that way too, as is the case with these informations.

Here are some facts:

There was no such kingdom as Slavonia, infact Slavonia was amongst the territories where hungarian administration (counties, or vojvodinas) were introduced in 1102.

The map you have provided is a map from AD 900, (the Hungarian tribes started to settled Pannonia around that time, so no wonder why they were no Hungarians there), and we are all arguing about the starting positions in 1419!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ok
1419 situation
There is kingdom of Croatia and Dalmatia
( as Croatia have CB on what was later none as venetian Dalmatia )
There is kingdom of Bosnia + Hercegovina
There is kingdom of Hungary
And
there is kingdom of Slavonia
noth a province
but a kingdom!
It have its one sabor, ban ,low!
to sey its youst Hungarian province is noth corect
it status was same as Maros or Croatia or Bosnia toward Hungary
trefore at 1419 there shuld be as kingdom toward hungary .. noth youst an Hungarian province





And I will locate site with King tomislav info .. its one in Chatolich encyclopedia i finkh ?!

donth get me wrong but I can stil remember Layos Kossnik quote:"Croatia!I canth see it on map" in 19 ct
and whay did youst recently Hungary make an monument to krun of ST Sthepan on Croatian /Hungarian border? was that provocation ?
 
facts and figures on the history of Croatia

At the weekend I looked up several volumes of Medieval sources and encyclopaedias (E~ Britannica, larousse, etc.) in order to give everyone a fair and clear picture on the details on the Croatian history. Firstly, I would like to describe the legal situation of the Croatian Kingdom from the time (1102 A.D.) when it became part of Hungary.

Croatia under the rule of a Croatian king (and thus a kingdom)existed exactly from 910 till 1090/1102 A.D. (I'll come back to these dates later). So, 910 A.D. King Tomislav uses the first time the title of a king. He is followed by several successors until 1090 A.D. when the Tripimirovic-dinasty dies out. We all know that an extintion of a dinasty created always trouble in Medieval history for every state. The Hungarian King László I.(Holy Ladislaus) claimed the throne by ancestry, since his elder sister Ilona was the Queen of Croatia. As a result of this, László marched into Crotia in 1091, and took the whole country as such. Although there were some families (which later turned out in vast minority)among the Croatian nobility, treid to take advantage of the situation, and become a self-made king. The leader of them was Peter who succeded through some revolt to control parts of the former Croatian kingdom as Peter II. But after the death of Laszlo, his son Kálmán was invited (!) to the Croatian throne by the 12 largest noble families. So he accepted this proposal, and after defeating the remaining small revolting nobles, became king of Croatia.

So, to be short, let's see the administrative structure of the Hungarian Kingdom related to Croatia. The so typical Hungarian county system wasn't introduced instead of the Croatian "zupa"s thanks to the loyality and enthusiasm of the majority of the Croatian nobility. But - and this is very important - there is no Croatian treasury, no royal household. The highest administrative leader, the "ban" is appointed by the king (as everywhere in any kingdom), and he is allowed to deal with internal matters concerning mailny law enforcement. However, the "sabor" was a parialment for the Croatian noble class, and was allowed to introduce laws BUT only if they were approved by the Hungarian King + the law is not contrary to the same Hungarian regulation. Thus, Hungarian law was also applicable on the territory of Croatia. Moreover, the Croatioan aristocrats were personally members of the Hungarian high order's assembly, therefore served the Hungarian King on the same rules as the Hungarian nobility (tax payments, setting up armies).

Finally, as a last remark: after 1102 A.D. a Croatian royal family never existed (although the "sabor" had the right to choose but it was only a formal option since it never chose other that the Hungarian king.), so a royal diplomacy (marriage, war declaration, etc.) never was the case.



Originally posted by Hrv123
ok
1419 situation
There is kingdom of Croatia and Dalmatia
( as Croatia have CB on what was later none as venetian Dalmatia )
There is kingdom of Bosnia + Hercegovina
There is kingdom of Hungary
And
there is kingdom of Slavonia
noth a province
but a kingdom!
It have its one sabor, ban ,low!
to sey its youst Hungarian province is noth corect
it status was same as Maros or Croatia or Bosnia toward Hungary
trefore at 1419 there shuld be as kingdom toward hungary .. noth youst an Hungarian province





And I will locate site with King tomislav info .. its one in Chatolich encyclopedia i finkh ?!

donth get me wrong but I can stil remember Layos Kossnik quote:"Croatia!I canth see it on map" in 19 ct
and whay did youst recently Hungary make an monument to krun of ST Sthepan on Croatian /Hungarian border? was that provocation ?
Click to expand...
 
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