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Isten Ostora
Aug 17, 2001
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Originally posted by Huszics


Since You've asked Stefan:

Well, Zápolya was elected Hungarian king on November 11. 1526 a couple of weeks after the battle of Mohács, where the Turks beat the Hungarians severely (King Louis II died on the battlefield). However, on December 16. 1526 (the same year) a group of powerful landlords elect Ferdinand of Habsburg as a counter-king. So war breaks out between the fractions, whereby Zápolya, who was a powerful landlord in the eastern parts of Hungary, ends up controlling the eastern part whereas, the Ferdinand fraction the western part of Hungary. After this stalemate Zápolya (makes the huge mistake and) allies himself with Suleyman (who wants to conquer Vienna) to get the western part of the country, but than dies in 1541 after the Turks sack Buda, the capital of Hungary and get to control 1/3 of the country. In 1541 his son Sigismund Jan (1 year old) gets elected as Hungarian king, however his fraction controls not more than 1/3 of the country, including the region of Hungary called Transsylvania. As Sigismund Jan finds it impossible to unite the country Hi resigns as king of Hungary in favour of the Habsburgs in the treaty of speyer in 1570, and from then on he starts to call himself and the provinces which he controls the Transylvanian Principality.

THUS TRANSSYLVANIA WAS NOTHING ELSE THAN THE SUCCESSOR OF HUNGARY, STARTING ONLY FROM 1570 BUT FOR CHRIST'S SAKE NOT IN 1419!!!!!!!!!!!!!

About the Hungarian province names, I'll send You an e-mail later.

Cheriaooooooo

PARADOX NEEDS TO FIX THIS IF THEY WANT TO BE HISTORICALLY CORRECT !!!!!!:mad: :mad:
 

Demetrios

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Actually Doomie and I have a list of the Hungarian Princes of Transylvania form long before 1419 until 1700 or so, with the exception of one short period in the late 15th century.

I find it odd that if there was no separate Transylvanian state we would be able to find lists of rulers for this non-existent nation.
 

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Grandpa Maur
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Originally posted by Huszics
There is alway still room for changes, and as I said, even after the game is released.

The actuall provincenames on the map are one of the few things in the game that is sadly not changeble with patches.
Official word is that there will be no more changes to the map (even changing a single name is a very timeconsuming process)
However I've been putting together a list of my own "just in case", if not now, perhaps in the future.
[/B]
Wait, Stefan, are you saying this about EU I or EU II?
 

Dark Knight

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Originally posted by Demetrios
I find it odd that if there was no separate Transylvanian state we would be able to find lists of rulers for this non-existent nation.
From what I've seen, they were something in between vassals and viceroys. So at most Transylvania should be a vassal of Hungary, if not simply part of it.
 

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Good grief...and I thought the people on the Civ III board at Apolyton.net were picky. ;) But since we're on the topic of inaccuracies I'd very much like to see the national borders mirror their real life counterparts. A Germany united, for example, would include the city of Posen. But if you annex Posen from Poland-Lithuania, it makes the whole map of Germany look distorted. Darn it to heck! I want a properly formed German Empire!!! :D

That's my only problem, at any rate. France looks a bit gimped too if you ask me.
 

Demetrios

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Originally posted by Dark Knight

From what I've seen, they were something in between vassals and viceroys. So at most Transylvania should be a vassal of Hungary, if not simply part of it.

Did I ever say that Transylvania wouldn't be a vassal of Hungary?

I think that our present-day mindset is part of the problem; in the 21st century we're so used to seeing borders that demark the end of control for nations. However, a lot of the borders you see in 1419 are between vassals and lords and do not demark the end of control. Thus, an "independent" Croatia and Transylvania doesn't necessarily mean that they are totally free; they may in fact be vassals of some nation or other...
 
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Boy, what a mess!

Central Asia is messed up. Russia should consist of at least 10 provinces to start with, and Ukraine is definitely too small, way to small. But we probably gonna have 10 sea zones in Black Sea - here, there is smth to cheer about :D
 

Hrv123

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Hmmm youst making new diplomatic posibilty for personal unions would make problems like this obsolete :cool: ... wee can alweys pray for it:rolleyes:


Regard maps ... its simple
Use satelite maps for placing shores and rivers .... its wery simple to make WERY corect historicly bounderes from that...afcorse that would change EU/EUII/(EUIII) loks a lot.
And making EU3 map as 3D globus who you spin araund (you do spin map araund alredy) is GREAT IDEA!!!
But some peoples ego would prabily stop it becose ..well its hard to anderstand that Africa is biger than Europa and and N America together but that would be cool and first time to see in one WORLD wide historycal strategy game:).. that would be "History" in proces ;)
 

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Isten Ostora
Aug 17, 2001
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All right You guys, facts of Hungarian History once again:

Transsylvania was an integral part of the Kingdom of Hungary until it was invaded by the Turks in 1540, and it got split up in 3 parts, which lead up to the Hungarian King officially resigning in 1570 (Treaty of Speyer) in favour of the Habsburgs, but as He (Jan Sigismund) controlled 1/3 of the country including that region called Transsylvania he from than on called himself the Prince of Transsylvania, thus the entity became the Principality of Transsylvania.

HOWEVER, BEFORE THAT (UNTIL 1570) THERE WAS NO PRINCE NEITHER A VICEROY NEITHER A CLIENT RULER OF TRANSSYLVANIA, BUT ONLY A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE KING, A REEVE (YOU MIGHT CALL IT A GOVERNOR), WHICH THE HUNGARIAN KINGDOM HAD A DOZEN OF FOR ITS DIFFERENT REGIONAL ENTITIES. THUS THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR MAKING TRANSSYLVANIA A VASSAL OF HUNGARY EITHER IN 1419 or 1492 (BTW, IT WAS A PART OF HUNGARY IN THE EUI !!!!!!!!!! NOT A VASSAL!!!!!!!!!). AS IT WAS AN INEGRAL PART OF HUNGARY IT HAD THE SAME KING, SAME MONEY, SAME CULTURE, SAME LANGUAGE, SAME ADMINISRTATION, SAME ARMY, SAME PARLIAMENT ………. WELL IF THAT DOES NOT MAKE AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE COUNTRY THAN I DO NOT KNOW WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF TRANSSYLVANIA WERE A VASSAL OF HUNGARY IN 1419 THAN FOR THE SAME UNHISTORICAL NONSE THE PRINCE OF WALES IS A VICEROY THUS THER SHOULD BE A VASSAL STATE CALLED WALES IN ENGLAND, THERE SHOULD BE A VASSAL DAUPHINE COUNTRY IN FRANCE, A POLISH VASSAL LITHUANIA AND SO FORTH (AND THERE IS EVEN MORE JUSTIFICATION FOR THESE LATTER ONES AS THEY INFACT WERE PRINCIPALITIES WHERES ONCE MORE AGAIN: TRANSSYLVANI WAS NEVER EVER A PRINCIPLITY UNTIL 1570!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

PLEASE PARADOX IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS ABOUT HUNGARY OR TRANSSYLVANIA TRY TO LOOK UP SOME AUTHENTIC HISTORY BOOKS NOT JUST SOME SITES WHERAS PEOPLE PUT ON (I ASSUME WITH A GOOD INTENTION) FALSE NAMES, AND INFORMATION. I DO NOT EVEN BLAME THEM AS HUNGARIAN HISTORY IS UNFORTUNATELY NOT VERY KNOWN.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
 

Emre Yigit

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For the love of St Stephen...

please, please, please stop flaming us, Attila!

I mean, we all have one grudge or another against the map, but we do not necessarily express it in practically every post.

What next?

A discussion of Hungarian history in this thread? or this? or this?

Please, point noted.
 

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Grandpa Maur
Apr 10, 2001
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Originally posted by Emperor Mike I
A Germany united, for example, would include the city of Posen.
Eh, what do you mean by that?:confused:
 

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Isten Ostora
Aug 17, 2001
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All right You guys, I hear You. I am not shouting merely arguing.
But I am still asking PARADOX, for their arguments about why Transsylvani is independent. Up to this point I have received none:

But to give you an example of the severity of this situation:

Imagine a game (let say WWII game) with the US starting position of having an INDEPENDENT California.

Now the "historical justification for this is: there was indeed an independent California at one time in History (although a 150 years earlier, as there was an independent Transsylvania starting from 1570, 131 years later than 1419)

Besides the main battles of WWII were in Eurpoe (as some people pointed out as an argument that the main events happened in the western part of Europe in the XVI-XVIII cenntury anyway)

And at last but not least: the previous version of the game had already made signifacant mistakes (New Mexico, Arizona were Mexican provinces, as in EUI Pressburg, Odenburg were "given" to Austria although they have nevere ever been part of it (although they were corrected in EUII, I must admit that)

So, here is my question: WOULD YOU BE UPSET?? I THINK YOU WOULD.
WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT: ARGUE, ARGUE, AND ARGUE AGAIN. SO THESE ARE A FEW REASONS FOR ME BEING PASSIONATE. Sorry if it is hearting Your ears this morning, but than again it is important.

Cherioooooo


:D :D
 

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Grandpa Maur
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Re: For the love of St Stephen...

Originally posted by Emre Yigit
please, please, please stop flaming us, Attila!

I mean, we all have one grudge or another against the map, but we do not necessarily express it in practically every post.

What next?

A discussion of Hungarian history in this thread? or this? or this?

Please, point noted.
Jesus, he really discussed Hungarian history on 'Tits' thread:eek: :D :cool: :p
eek2.gif
 

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Sep 4, 2001
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River

A river are living, in a hendred of years it can change direction
and press itself trow a new landskape....:)
 

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Advocatus Sancti Sepulcri
Nov 24, 2000
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Map problems

As someone else stated earlier the province/city relationship makes it difficult if not impossible to accurately portray the map exactly as it should be. When you add the fact that rivers must be between provinces (for combat calculation purposes) you get even more of a distortion.

I really like the map with additional provinces - making it more difficult to swallow up large chunks of territory easily - but the more refined the map becomes the less strategic the game becomes shifting toward a more tactical feel.:)
 

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I'm a conformist, perhaps

I guess I am just a conformist. I was completely happy with EU1 in spite of strange Eastern Europe boundaries and all. I will be even more happier with EU2. And when you find "incorrect" things - just smile. You think Gagarin was first cosmonaut? Hah, he was Russian Conauistador of 18th century! I will miss this leader in EU2.
 

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Advocatus Sancti Sepulcri
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Originally posted by Attila the Hun

PLEASE PARADOX IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS ABOUT HUNGARY OR TRANSSYLVANIA TRY TO LOOK UP SOME AUTHENTIC HISTORY BOOKS NOT JUST SOME SITES WHERAS PEOPLE PUT ON (I ASSUME WITH A GOOD INTENTION) FALSE NAMES, AND INFORMATION. I DO NOT EVEN BLAME THEM AS HUNGARIAN HISTORY IS UNFORTUNATELY NOT VERY KNOWN.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

This Hun fellow seems to be a rather passionate patriot!:cool:
 

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Young Old'un
Feb 23, 2001
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Originally posted by Solmyr
Stop typing in all caps. It just means people won't read your post.

The main reason being that people like a lot of space around words when reading.

If a person types all capitals then a lot of that space is taken up giving a result that looks like a wall of text. The human eye doesnt like it and so just "scans" over it.

Therefore typing in all Capitals is really defeating the object.

Concise sentences conveying the message with a empty line between paragraphs is more pleasing to the eye and is more likely to be read.

I will repeat all the above in all Capitals to show you all the effect:-

THE MAIN REASON BEING THAT PEOPLE LIKE A LOT OF SPACE AROUND WORDS WHEN READ.
IF A PERSON TYPES ALL CAPITALS THEN A LOT OF THAT SPACE IS TAKEN UP GIVING A RESULT THAT LOOKS LIKE A WALL OF TEXT. THE HUMAN EYE DOESNT LIKE IT AND SO JUST "SCANS" OVER IT.
THEREFORE TYPING IN ALL CAPITALS IS REALLY DEFEATING THE OBJECT.
CONCISE SENTENCES CONVEYING THE MESSAGE WITH AN EMPTY LINE BETWEEN PARAGRAPHS IS MORE PLEASING TO THE EYE AND IS MORE LIKELY TO BE READ.

I am sure you can all see the difference - your eye and brain certainly can feel it!
 
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