Diplomacy IX: War never changes

[Jacksonian Missionary]

It's a shame I can't get all of you to lose (besides Britain). Germany actually can win and hasn't betrayed me multiple times, so guess I'm forced to work towards a German victory.

TIL you betraying an alliance we had means we betrayed you multiple times.

 

[PanzerCorps]

It's maybe not particularly "masterful" as far as tactics go (fairly simple common sense, tbh; you don't get too many opportunities like that in this game), but to us in Italy it's like when you're reading The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit for the first time, and the orcs seem to be slowly overwhelming the good peoples of Middle-Earth, and then all of a sudden, just when all seems hopeless - "The Eagles are coming!" It is truly beautiful and glorious.

Spoilers man!! Spoilers

So....this all seems very chaotic. And dead france as usual. Interesting to see Russia survived. I do like funny Iberia too.

It certainly got suddenly way more lively in here, and that's sort of fun to watch! On the other hand, I am sort of worried about actual hurt feelings. I realize that verbal taunts and manipulation are as much part of the game as any on-map tactical stab or attack or whatever, and when you sign up for a diplomacy game you are basically also signing up for all the high and low emotions it will give you. But after last game I know that at least one person left it feeling hurt and said they probably wouldn't play diplomacy again for a while, and if this sort of trend continues with players generally being more angry than having fun, I'm not sure this game has as much merit as I once thought

Anyway, I want to make it clear that I am not criticizing any one player's actions or behavior. Nothing has been done that comes close to even being ambiguously not-ok in diplomacy. I'mjust wondering if the game itself is generally making people who play it happier or sadder.

 

[alxeu]

I was pretty upbeat until I missed a turn, as I was doing better than I expected.

After I missed that turn, I very much wrote off my game as doomed, and resigned myself a desperate, hopeless struggle.

Now, I'm back to essentially good vibes about the game, and while I consider myself currently far from contention, I no longer believe myself mere turns from a final collapse.

 

[madchemist]

Spoilers man!! Spoilers

As if there's anyone on this forum who hasn't practically memorized all of Tolkien's works by now.

It certainly got suddenly way more lively in here, and that's sort of fun to watch! On the other hand, I am sort of worried about actual hurt feelings. I realize that verbal taunts and manipulation are as much part of the game as any on-map tactical stab or attack or whatever, and when you sign up for a diplomacy game you are basically also signing up for all the high and low emotions it will give you. But after last game I know that at least one person left it feeling hurt and said they probably wouldn't play diplomacy again for a while, and if this sort of trend continues with players generally being more angry than having fun, I'm not sure this game has as much merit as I once thought

Anyway, I want to make it clear that I am not criticizing any one player's actions or behavior. Nothing has been done that comes close to even being ambiguously not-ok in diplomacy. I'mjust wondering if the game itself is generally making people who play it happier or sadder.

I often question whether Diplomacy is good for my mental health (same with Werewolf, for that matter). The answer is probably "no", (in both cases), but that has a lot more to do with me being hyper-competitive than anything about the game itself. It is easy to become too emotionally invested in winning.

 

[brovahkiin]

As if there's anyone on this forum who hasn't practically memorized all of Tolkien's works by now.
.

if there are we must find them and fix this
by force if we must

 

[Rovsea]

I don't know, Tolkien always had too much dry exposition for me. I'm not really interested in actually reading his works, to be honest.

 

[PanzerCorps]

My best friend tried reading his books and found them too slow and boring, and she's a more avid reader than me, so I've been sort of afraid to try.

 

[PanzerCorps]

Fall 1910

Orders

Spoiler: transcript

Austria:
A Apulia Supports F Ionian Sea - Naples
A Bohemia - Silesia
A Galicia Hold (*Dislodged*)
A Greece - Serbia
F Ionian Sea - Naples (*Fails*)
A Munich - Ruhr
A Trieste - Budapest (*Bounce*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Bounce*)
A Venice - Rome (*Fails*)

England:
F Edinburgh Hold
F English Channel Supports F Irish Sea - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Cut*)
F Irish Sea - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F London Supports F English Channel

Germany:
F Belgium Supports F Picardy - English Channel
A Berlin Supports A Kiel - Munich
A Brest Hold
A Burgundy - Gascony
A Kiel - Munich
F Norway - St Petersburg(nc) (*Bounce*)
F Picardy - English Channel (*Fails*)
A Prussia - Livonia
A Ruhr - Burgundy
A Silesia - Prussia

Italy:
F Aegean Sea - Greece
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Rome (*Cut*)
A Piedmont - Tuscany
F Rome Supports F Naples (*Cut*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Naples

Russia:
F Bulgaria(sc) Supports F Aegean Sea - Greece
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Bounce*)
A Rumania - Budapest (*Bounce*)
A Ukraine - Galicia
A Warsaw Supports A Ukraine - Galicia

Results

Spoiler

Retreats tomorrow

Sorry for the delay. been trying to upload these pictures since 35 minutes ago. Internet is really slow today

 

[PanzerCorps]

Fall 1910 Retreats

Austria retreats A Galicia to Vienna

Builds <---> Supply

The Empire of Austria-Hungary -4 <---> 5
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland 0 <---> 4
German Reich 1 <---> 11
Kingdom of Italy 0 <---> 7
Russian Empire 1 <---> 7

 

[PanzerCorps]

Winter 1910

Austria:
Remove A Ruhr
Remove A Tyrolia
Remove A Apulia
Remove F Ionian Sea

Germany:
Build F Kiel

Russia:
Build A Sevastopol

 

[PanzerCorps]

Spring 1911

Orders

Spoiler: transcript

Austria:
A Serbia Supports A Trieste - Budapest
A Silesia - Warsaw
A Trieste - Budapest
A Venice - Apulia (*Bounce*)
A Vienna - Galicia

England:
F Edinburgh Supports F English Channel - North Sea
F English Channel - North Sea
F London Supports F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - English Channel
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - English Channel (*Bounce*)

Germany:
F Belgium Supports F Picardy - English Channel
A Berlin - Munich
A Brest Supports A Gascony
A Burgundy - Marseilles
A Gascony Supports A Burgundy - Marseilles
F Kiel - Denmark
A Livonia - Moscow (*Fails*)
A Munich - Tyrolia
F Norway - St Petersburg(nc)
F Picardy - English Channel (*Bounce*)
A Prussia Supports A Silesia - Warsaw

Italy:
F Greece - Bulgaria(sc) (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles Hold (*Dislodged*)
F Naples - Apulia (*Bounce*)
F Rome Hold
A Tuscany - Venice (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Gulf of Lyon

Russia:
F Bulgaria(sc) - Constantinople
A Galicia - Silesia
A Moscow Supports A Warsaw (*Cut*)
A Rumania - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A Sevastopol - Ukraine
A Warsaw Supports A Galicia - Silesia (*Disbanded*)

Results

Spoiler

Retreats tomorrow

 

[PanzerCorps]

Spring 1911 Retreats

Italy retreats A Marseilles to Spain

 

[Rovsea]

Austria literally just handed Germany the game.

 

[aedan777]

Austria literally just handed Germany the game.

Did you miss the post I made earlier when I said I would do exactly that after Russia's betrayal?

 

[Premu]

This is the second diplomacy game I see in this forum, and again it seems that preventing a solo victory is nothing anyone can agree on.

Solo victories were quite the exceptions in the games I played.

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

Austria literally just handed Germany the game.

Handing games to another power is Aedan's specialty, didn't you see last game too?

 

[aedan777]

Handing games to another power is Aedan's specialty, didn't you see last game too?

This one is on Barkardes for stabbing me in the back before Germany was even remotely neutralized, forcing me into a kingmaker position that I sure wasn't going reward him for. Which in turn also vindicates my decision last game to never open my flank against Barkardes to fight Italy.

 

[reis91]

Handing games to another power is Aedan's specialty, didn't you see last game too?

Well, last game almost everyone wanted to hand Italy the win. The true Diplomacy dream coming true.

 

[barkardes]

This one is on Barkardes for stabbing me in the back before Germany was even remotely neutralized, forcing me into a kingmaker position that I sure wasn't going reward him for. Which in turn also vindicates my decision last game to never open my flank against Barkardes to fight Italy.

I hope that you didn't expect me to not to attack you while you were getting ready to turn on me. You would only take Italy out while I wasn't fighting and then turn on me. It was my only chance to attack you, so I did. I act on conditions, I don't attack you just because I like to stab. I attacked you because I felt like I had to. So, the point you make about the last game is irrelevant. I stab on conditions, not as a hobby.

In the last game, you should have loosed your grip on me so that I could fight Italy, and you would pretend that you were having some effort to attack Italy, and it was easy to do as the front was too narrow. After the chance of Italy winning the game disappeared, you would stab me in the back and bring balance to the game. And I thought that that would be what you would do if you accepted, but I still wanted it just because I really needed to not to let Italy win, even if I would get attacked by you.

And no one is forcing you to become a kingmaker. My nation was on ruins several years ago. I lost Moscow and Warsaw. You weren't cooperating and my hands were full with Turks on the south. I just made deals with people that I had common interests with. Germany lied to me every time we had an agreement, but I agreed to work with him. You lied to me and stabbed me and Italy after you had the chance, yet I worked with you. By your logic, I should have terrorised all your provinces right after you decided to stab us forthe dishonest liar you were. I didn't say that you were forcing me to become a kingmaker and I moved on. It was even a good stab, and I even told you that it was a good stab in private message. That's how I receive betrayals, and I think that it is how you should too.

What I am saying is, this game has lots of betrayals going on. You also did a lot of them. And it is unfair to go berserk on someone who did the same to you.

You have things to gain by attacking me now, but know how to cooperate with someone who betrayed you when the need arises, or you will lose the game.

 

[alxeu]

I think the fact that these games take place over months leads to a greater sense of betrayal due to a greater investment in the game.

Betrayal/backstabbing stings more when it undoes months of work and progress, I suppose.