Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Developer Diary 20 – The Mongols

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Crusader Kings II 69869 Bug Reports 19707 User Modifications 10588 Suggestions 5969 Tech Support 6362 After Action Reports
Show only dev responses
A slowly imploding Fatamid Egypt, exploited by Seljuk atabegs and mercenaries, hardly resembles the Mamluk sultanate. Likewise, Turkish infiltration of the Iranian plateau and Levantine coast is in no way comparable to the massive ordu led by Mongol commanders.

I'm not in favor of arbitrary restrictions, but neither am I interested in ridiculous fanboy wankery passing itself off as proper speculation. Simulations require an array of plausible outcomes to succeed, and there will never be anything plausible about world conquest, not with Alexander, not with Napoleon, and not with Genghis. Mod it in yourself, if you've got the hots for it.
 
and not limiting them to terrian types but instead limiting them to having to conquer whatever they can on the grounds of their strength, stability and income is ridiculous fanboying? Good to see we have the choice between two extremes and nothing in the middle.
The mongols will be able to conquer what they can, not on the grounds of where it is but on the grounds of if they win the battle and the siege. As it should be.
Arbitary restrictions on where they could go wouldnt be historical, it would just be annoying. The Mongols conquered over mountains and forests and deserts in china and persia and so they could do anywhere. That doesnt mean giving them the ability to fight on all terrains will cause then to conquer the whole map, for that to happen the player would have had to conquer everything first, own all provinces directly and raise no soldiers in resistance in order to make sure no one fights back.

Maybe in one game russia is rubbish and fighting amongst itself, and so the mongols face no resistance there and are in a position to threaten germany, would it make sense to prevent them from doing so simple because historically they didnt? No, let the conditions and course of the game determine their fate like it does for everyone else, not restrictions from on high.
 
The mongols already have an arbitrary bonus in the form of no attrition for their shock troops. This simulates their nomadic steppe lifestye, but will give implausible results if they're able to cross forests and mountains with no penalty. The mongols should take normal attrition outside of plains, that won't prevent them from conquering weak nations, but neither will they be able to steamroller a strong kingdom with rough terrain.

Remember that the Mongol conquest of southern China took more than 40 years, and involved troops raised from the entire mongol empire, not just steppe hordes. And the Mongols ultimately only succeeded when an important Chinese general defected. This is well simulated with initial mongol horde overrunning northern China, and then becoming a normal country which has to try and conquer the rest of China using levies and plots.
 
The game looks great. Anyway this "Mauretania" in the Iberic Peninsula is not cool. Perhaps it could be like in V2, if a Mauretanian state hold land in the Iberic Peninsula this land is called al-Andalus, not Mauretania.
 
Frezzin said:
In fairness, horses can exist anywhere there is land to support them. Look at the mongol's invasions of China and India. Honestly, I don't think it would have been that hard for them to hold deeper demense.

I think what you're positing is that, logistically speaking, the steppes were their limit. I would disagree with that since if that were the case, they never would have successfully conquered the Great Wall, invaded China, India, etc, etc. Don't under-estimate the versatility and adaptability of the horde! hehe
Click to expand...

Sure they could conquer a lot more. In case of 'Mongol-wank scenario', they could replace ruling dynasties in some cases, Rus' for example (like in case of China or Timurids), and subordinate/vassilese larger chunks of Europe (Poland, Bohemia, Hungary, parts of HRE/Italy). What i'm against is pan-European nomadic superstate/blob from CK1.
 
Spectacle said:
The mongols already have an arbitrary bonus in the form of no attrition for their shock troops. This simulates their nomadic steppe lifestye, but will give implausible results if they're able to cross forests and mountains with no penalty. The mongols should take normal attrition outside of plains, that won't prevent them from conquering weak nations, but neither will they be able to steamroller a strong kingdom with rough terrain.

Remember that the Mongol conquest of southern China took more than 40 years, and involved troops raised from the entire mongol empire, not just steppe hordes. And the Mongols ultimately only succeeded when an important Chinese general defected. This is well simulated with initial mongol horde overrunning northern China, and then becoming a normal country which has to try and conquer the rest of China using levies and plots.
Click to expand...

The problem is that in CK1 they always either always conquered the entire map or they were wiped out in a year. They never just became that empire in the eastern part of the map. It was always demise in 10 seconds or epic world conquest for them. That's why there's a lot skepticism they will work as intended in CK2.
 
I blame the lack of depth in the eastern part of the map for that. Think for it for a moment. Half of Central Asia is cut off , and you get silly events like Reinforcements for Samarkand. Now , if the Mongols have been kicked out of Bukhara , why the hell would they not be from Samarkand ? Lolz.

I think it's going to end in either Mongol Fail , or Mongol Wank too. The Mongols would steamroller the Middle East and the Eastern part of the map at ahistorical speeds . Or , some strong Persian Sultanate would stomp them. Historically , they overran Central Asia , paused for awhile , before invading Persia.
 
I guess there will not be event for sudden death of Ögedei, and premature abortion of european conquest to solve khan succession crisis, thus saving Europe.
Because that is what happened historically, and it was one of the most significant event defining world history, at least maybe. Is this possibility simulated somehow or just by the little chance of mongols not showing in the stage at all?
 
So, what about attrition?
 
Subcomandante said:
But the Almohads were one Kingdom.
Click to expand...
Yeah. But it's like in V2, for example. When Spain owns Morocco it says "Spanish Morocco" or "Spanish North Africa". Well, in this case it would be: if a Mauretanian state owns Iberic Peninsula it would say "Iberian Mauretania" or whatever, but since Mauretanians had a name for it's lands in Iberic Peninsula it's best to use this name than any other. Al-Andalus instead of Mauritanian Iberia. Or Mauritanian al-Andalus or something like that.
Sorry for my bad English.
 
I like the randomness factor, but what I don't particularly like is that it can only randomly be easier than history, not harder. You can have no hordes, one horde, or two hordes; there is no chance of having three or four hordes.

I believe that when you add a random element, the historical outcome should be the middle-ground, not the most difficult possibility.
 
Falconette said:
As I understood, Mongols are still dark-skinned Arabian-looking guys? :(
Click to expand...

I assume they will be able to have different looking portraits for them, it is probably a lot easier to have unique looking cultures with the new gene system.
 
I didn't notice one very important question being asked:
Will there be any way to play any of the hordes?
Like modding something?

Thanks!
 
my games in CK1 generally ended when the mongols arrived.

If crusades work properly though, I don't see why they can't be utilized effectively to kick the mongols out of catholic lands (or die trying) to strike a balance of fun and believability, while not leaving the entire burden of fighting the mongols to the player.

bottom line, they just weren't fun at all. It was like playing a game of chess, then all of a sudden your opposition declared that their pawns were all now queens.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back