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CK3 Dev Diary #1 - Dynasties & Houses

Greetings, and welcome to the first CK3 Feature Dev Diary!

As this is the first DD we want it to be extra juicy, and showcase something that we’re excited about - namely what we’re doing with Dynasties! Dynasties are immaterial yet fundamentally important things that make Crusader Kings what it is - your line must follow an unbroken line of members from your Dynasty; if your Dynasty ends, so does your game.

Now, the representation of Dynasties in CK2 was limited. A character belonged to a Dynasty, and that was that - you got a minor opinion boost with characters that were of the same one, and nothing more. In CK3, we really want to emphasize the power that Dynasties held, and their impact on the medieval world! We want you as the player to feel a bond with your Dynasty, and care for it. To achieve this, we’ve done a multitude of things!

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Firstly something that we know will especially please CK2 players, we’ve redefined what a Dynasty actually is - not a monolithic entity, but a collection of Houses. No longer will Dynasties have just one name, one Coat of Arms, and one identity - instead several Houses (aka Cadet Branches!) will be collected under the umbrella that is the Dynasty, working together (theoretically…) towards bringing renown upon the Dynasty!

So, what is a House?
Each Dynasty will have a Founding House (usually of the same name as the Dynasty), which is the first House of that Dynasty. As the game progresses, ruling Dynasty members that are distant by blood to the current House Head (more on this below) may choose to create a Cadet Branch - effectively creating a new House under the Dynasty. Creating a Cadet Branch makes the character creating it House Head (with the most powerful House Head becoming Dynast), and by extension free from the direct influence of their old House Head.

Making your own Cadet Branch requires quite a bit of prestige, that you do not stand to inherit your House Head’s titles, and that all of your Dynastic ancestors are dead (your father can’t be alive, for example). Cadet Branches/Houses come with a lot of flavor: their own names, Coat of Arms and Mottos, usually inspired by the location in which they are founded, and the founding character. For example, if a ruler of the Jimena Dynasty would create a Cadet Branch in southern France, they might be called the Toulouse-Jimenas, and so on.

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Now, what is a House Head or a Dynast?
Within a House there is always a leader, a House Head, that wields power over the rest of the members. A House Head has the power to legitimize bastards, call House members to war, and demand that they adhere to their Faith (refusal to convert will result in them creating a new Cadet Branch). The House Head also has inherent leverage on all House members born after they were made head, by virtue of getting a Hook on them (more on Hooks in another DD). They also gain passive prestige based upon the number of members in their House. House leadership follows the succession of the House Head, so that if you’re the leader of your House you will most likely keep that title on succession.

The Dynast, on the other hand, wields significantly more power than a House Head - with their power encompassing the members of all Houses of the entire Dynasty! The Dynast is always the most powerful House Head of a Dynasty, with leadership being updated on the death of the old Dynast. In addition to everything the House Head can do, the Dynast can also Disinherit/Restore Inheritance, Denounce/Forgive members of the Dynasty (which affects opinion in a major way), personally Claim titles held by Dynasty members, and make Dynasty members end wars they have against each other. All of these powers work against every member of the Dynasty, not just the House they’re a part of. The Dynast also gains prestige for every living member of the Dynasty. Being the Dynast is very powerful indeed, but you have to carefully weigh the powers against other benefits, as they cost Renown.

So what is Renown?
Renown is a resource accumulated by a Dynasty, and is used for several things. Firstly, all renown earned by a Dynasty counts towards its Level of Splendor. The Level of Splendor is the outward perception of the Dynasty, how well it is perceived in the eyes of the world, and affects the prestige you get on birth, the prestige when marrying into it, and the maximum long reign opinion you can get. Having a high level also makes it much easier to arrange marriages, especially with Dynasties below your level. Regardless of if Renown is spent or not, the Level of Splendor won’t decrease. The higher your Dynasty’s Level of Splendor, the more impressive its Coat of Arms frame will look. Peasant Dynasties will start at a negative Splendor level, which means that you’ll actually lose prestige for marrying them.

Renown itself is a spendable currency, representing the clout your Dynasty holds over itself. Its use is twofold; firstly it can be used for the most powerful Dynast interactions (getting claims, disinheriting, etc.) and secondly for unlocking Dynasty Legacies (more on this below).

The way you get Renown encourages you to mimic a ‘playstyle’ that was common in reality, but that wasn’t very practical in CK2 - spreading your Dynasty far and wide! You will gain renown for every ruler of your Dynasty that isn’t a subject under another member of your Dynasty. This is based on tier, which means that a King will give more Renown than a Duke, and so on. Marrying in such a way that your Dynasty ends up on the throne of a foreign realm is therefore useful for other reasons than to just murder them until you inherit their lands. Having your Dynasty spread out will give you more Renown, and thus a more powerful Dynasty overall. For example, if you’re playing as the King of England you will NOT gain renown from your landed vassal brother, but you WILL gain renown from your Dynastic cousin ruling a Duchy in the Holy Roman Empire. You will also gain renown from marrying away your dynasty to be spouses of powerful rulers, symbolizing your newfound influence in their realms. This gives you a reason to carefully plan the marriages of your kinsmen, even if you are not in need of an alliance!

So, what are Dynasty Legacies?
We all know that the playing field in Crusader Kings is a very volatile one, you might be Emperor of the World as one character, while being reduced to Count of Norfolk as the next. Dynasty Legacies offer some permanence in this otherwise very wild world, in the form of modifiers and unlocks that affect every member of your Dynasty. Essentially, by using Renown you get to shape what your Dynasty is known for. There’s a myriad of Legacies to choose from, all divided into tracks with an appropriately thematic name, such as ‘Kin’, ‘Guile’ or ‘Blood’. These aim to represent notions the world had (or has) about certain dynasties, i.e., that the Seljuks are warriors, the Abbasids lawmakers, the Habsburgs diplomats (and, ahem, prone to marrying their own kin), etc. Each Legacy track contains five unlocks, each costing a progressively higher amount of Renown to unlock.

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In this Dev Diary we will go into details on one of these tracks, “Blood” (which also happens to be my favorite). This track is designed for those of you who enjoy breeding traits into your family line, with the first few unlocks all focusing on increasing the chance of inheritance, emergence, and reinforcement of genetic traits (more on genetic traits in another DD). The last few unlocks will reduce the chance of negative traits appearing (essentially allowing for more.. ‘risky’ marriages), give you the chance to choose a genetic trait to be more common among your kin (i.e. beautiful, intelligent and strong… but also giant or dwarf. No matter how much I pleaded with art I couldn’t get a ‘Habsburg chin’ trait, though!), and finally rounding off with an increase to your Dynasty members Life Expectancy (which increases both their average age, and average fertility - this even means that women of your dynasty remain able to bear children for longer!).

Legacies take a long time to unlock, and you will have to work hard toward unlocking even one full track - though their power more than makes up for the wait. Legacies are chosen and unlocked by the Dynast, so make sure that you’re in control of your Dynasty.

That’s all for this time! We won’t spoil any more of the Legacy tracks for now, but rest assured that they all offer very interesting opportunities for you to shape your dynasty as you would like it! Next up we have a sneak preview of the map, stay tuned for the next DD.
 
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Its a number bars which you use to achieve things like claims, and so on. Its a mana bar. That is what a mana bar is. Its a feature we despised in imperator rome, and yet despite the backlash, paradox still implemented them in grand scale in imperator rome, until that stubborness almost killed the game.

How paradox didnt learn anything from that fiasco is beyond me.


Renown sounds like prestige and piety from CK2 but for your dynasty instead of character.
 
Remember when William the Conqueror got so much renown mana that he managed to have all hot smart sons?

I don't think the point is for everyone in the dynasty to have certain traits, just to increase the effectiveness of trying to "breed" traits into your family, the same way taking the military renown path wouldn't make you instantly win every war it would just give you minor bonuses.
 
It's odd because CK2 has mana as well but no one complains because it's done well.

Mana is fine if done well, sliders are better but it's all situational.

It's extremely silly for folk to complain about mana without actually... seeing the context and gameplay behind it? You are right with some folk just freaking out at the mere thought but they're being silly.
I agree entirely. The difference between mana in EU4 and Imperator and mana in CK2 (piety and prestige) is that you have much more control over the source of your mana (EU4's being able to hire advisors that convert gold into mana is far different from CK2's having a councilor position or other nominal titles, owning artifacts, holding wonders, and obtaining bloodlines procured more prestige, while owning artifacts, directing your court chaplain to hunt out heretics, obtaining bloodlines, and joining a monastic order procured more piety)
 
Remember when William the Conqueror got so much renown mana that he managed to have all hot smart sons?
From what was written, it will be very difficult and take ages to max out a path. On top of that William would have had to get really lucky ontop of that and have the traits in his wife to get such kids.

Sounds like William used console commands.
 
I don't think the point is for everyone in the dynasty to have certain traits, just to increase the effectiveness of trying to "breed" traits into your family, the same way taking the military renown path wouldn't make you instantly win every war it would just give you minor bonuses.

But why? The game already has skill trees and other stuff that can easily allow you enough customization for your own character(probably too much).

Couldn't we spare us mechanics to build superhumans and mutants that literally escalate over time, meaning tgat the longer you play, the more you are guaranteed to always have strong characters?
 
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You're right, "select perks to affect everyone in dynasty does feel rather artificial, especially in comparison to the organic methods of expression in CK2. Right now, that sort of stuff is what keeps me merely cautiously optimistic about CK3.

I mean, in CK2 one guy gets to be a glorious Knight, and suddenly your entire dynasty becomes a dynasty of chivalrous knights and even unlocks new mechanics. CK2 with its Bloodline mechanic really did not handle this that much better.

It's odd because CK2 has mana as well but no one complains because it's done well.

Mana is fine if done well, sliders and actions/achievements are better but it's all situational.

It's extremely silly for folk to complain about mana without actually... seeing the context and gameplay behind it? You are right with some folk just freaking out at the mere thought but they're being silly.

The main problem with Monarch Points IMO is their application: in EU4 and vanilla Imperator, they were being used to avoid implementing more detailed and interesting systems, and instead hid all that nuance behind extremely abstract currencies that are used for way too many things, not to mention they forced everything to be a result of player actions. A good system for Board Games, but not necessarily that good for games that want to be historical simulations.

When the new pool of resources adds a new (interesting and fun) mechanic, is limited to that one mechanic, does not hinder simulation, is not a shortcut to avoid adding some more fun stuff, and is not a core of the gameplay, then it's not really such a big problem.
 
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Is there any possibility to leave your dynasty. Let‘s say you are head of a cadet branch and the Dynast is batshit crazy / your rival. I think their should be a way because I don’t want to follow some guy‘s rules just because we had the same ancestor 500 years ago.
 
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From what was written, it will be very difficult and take ages to max out a path. On top of that William would have had to get really lucky ontop of that and have the traits in his wife to get such kids.

Sounds like William used console commands.

Ah yes, how did I forget the notorious path maxed out by the Capets of old.
 
they were being used to avoid implementing more detailed and interesting systems
Yeah with that I can agree. It would be more interesting if to unlock parts of these paths(?) was to gain certain achivements. Like "Oh you had 3 generations of kids with Strong trait. You now have a higher chance of getting strong trait in your dynasty" which does make more sense and is more interesting.

Reminds me the silly religion conversion in I:R via mana. That there was literally spell casting.

I don't mind mana too much, but I can see how they could have used more interesting/fun methods to get stuff and maybe have a more flexible system... and I adore flexible systems.
 
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Owing to what we saw, which are of course early alpha screens, I am somehow concerned which isn't wrong, that's all. Actually this DD counterbalanced it. Looks very nice and a great mechanic to look forward. Don't get me as the neverending skeptical guy. If something Paradox shown me since I discovered them is precisely their neat and deep interest in accuracy, that's why I am very interested in how map looks.
Oh, sorry then. You just sounded like one.

We just got a DD which shows how this game goes beyond how we imagine things as they were in CK2, and you post something about your concerns totally unrelated to anything neither in this thread nor anywhere else. Why? Yes, I'm glad to know you are concerned about something you know nothing about. And the point?

Whatever, let's move on, I guess we have more interesting stuff to talk about. Let's talk about map when we get some news about it, okay? :)
 
I wanted this in CK2 for so long.
Very nice!

Although I'm not much a fan of dynastic legacies and genetic traits.
I mean, it's fine to have legacies which would give you things like prestige or unique interactions.
But being able to increase the chance of having more beautiful and inteligent heirs seems...odd.
 
This may be a stupid question, but I assume we can customize the name of our House when we found a new one?

I thoroughly enjoy giving everything I possibly can a stupid name in my more sandbox-y play-throughs.
 
But why? The game already has skill trees and other stuff that can easily allow you enough customization for your own character(probably too much).

Couldn't we spare us mechanics to build superhumans and mutants that literally escalate over time, meaning tgat the longer you play, the more you are guaranteed to always have strong characters?

Because characters die. Having a system to give minor perks across your whole dynasty both encourages playing in a similar way that people acted in real life, wanting to spread their dynasty and increase their actual renown and gives tangible bonuses for as long as you play in that dynasty (and also helps all the other houses in your dynasty, making it easier to maintain.)

Of course, it remains to be seen how extensive the renown bonuses are but from the dev replies I've seen in the thread they're by no means guarantees of positive genetic traits. Also "breeding" traits is theoretically possible (like the Habsburg chin,) so positive ones should be too. But I doubt that will be without risk...
 
Is dynasty a house of its own ? or only the "container" several houses ?
So in Capet/Robertian example, is Robertian a house alongside Capet or just the dynasty name ?
 
So does the Dynast have the ability to edit the dynasty after it exists? By such I mean name and cost of arms and such. I like changing my dynasty name to match my highest title as I play.
 
My main concern with the Renown system as presented right now is its static nature. We do not know all the paths yet, but there is the possibility that, regardless of personal play style, every player will go for the one which is strongest. It is the same issue that "way of life" education system has. Was not better to implement an event system in which choosing different options affects the path (and the character)? It would be way more in CK2 RPG style
 
Is dynasty a house of its own ? or only the "container" several houses ?
So in Capet/Robertian example, is Robertian a house alongside Capet or just the dynasty name ?
It looks like dynasty is going to be the “kingdom title” while houses are the “duke title” and succession is based on the most powerful “duke” taking control of the “kingdom”