not so fast there
Lord Tarleton said:
Exactly, I think you would find wide acceptance of a fantasy German unification event that focused on the Habsburgs or in the later game, Brandenburg/Prussia. As I recall, this was something that was discussed over a year ago, but was killed. The time may now be ripe...
First time poster. As a matter of fact this is the thread that got me to register.....
I would protest most harshly making this an EXCLUSIVELY Austrian event!
Kind of ties into a pet peeve of mine in the game: Habsburg elections to Emperor. It is nearly impossible to get a Wittelsbach Emperor as has happened on several occassions historically. I have even gone in and edited the saved game file so that Bavaria has 200 relations with every single member of the HRE and Austria -200... and instead of getting a Bavarian Emperor..I get a Spanish one, and not even a Spanish Habsburg!
It would be somewhat easier for the Austrians to unify Germany early if as has been suggested you have them turn down Hungary. But that is not to say that it would be impossible for any one of the other major nations in the Empire to do so.
The event chain leading to a "German" nation should rightly be open to any of the real life electorates of the HRE, or more correctly it really should be limited to those nations that were "vicars" of the Empire. Since these nations wielded imperial power during the interregnum periods before the new emperor was crowned and after the last emperor had passed on. And they also did so when there was no emperor due to a variety of reasons.
These are the nations with the juice in the Empire. But if done it would leave the option open for Savoy to perform a double threat: Unify Germany and Italy. It would be tough, but a fun thing to attempt.
There were only three vicars: Pfalz who was vicar of Franconia, Swabia, the Rhine and Southern Germany (although Austria NEVER recognized any vicar), Saxony who dealt with Saxony, Westphalia, Northern Germany, Hanover etc. And as I mentioned, Savoy who dealt with the whole of Italy.
(a bit of general information on the powers of the Vicars. The imperial vicars exercised the powers of the emperor that were not explicitly reserved to his person, and in doing so were bound by the terms of the deceased emperor's capitulation. They handled all matters of grace: legitimations, emancipations, privileges, ennoblements and titles, etc. They exercised the emperor's judicial powers, they collected taxes in his name, nominated to ecclesiastical benefices, and invested vassals with imperial fiefs, whether inherited or newly conceded (except for principalities and Fahnlehen). The emperor was formally obliged to ratify the acts of the vicars after his election, although there are instances of such acts being repealed by the Reichshofrat. The vicariate ended once the new emperor had sworn to uphold his electoral capitulation)(further note on the qualifications for Emperor that if someone can script a fix for it would be nice: The Emperor had to be a worthy man, aged 18 or more, reside in the Empire, be of noble birth (all four grandparents had to be noble, according to the Schwabenspiegel), and of lay status (this was not explicitly stated). No law required that he be Catholic, and, although the text in a number of laws assumes that the emperor is Catholic, jurists saw no obstacle to the choice of a Protestant prince. Nor did he have to be German, as the examples of Alfonso of Castile and Charles V showed.* By the 17th century, however, it seemed wise for any candidate to possess an estate within the boundaries of the Empire: when the French weighed in 1648 whether to let Alsace remain within the Empire, it was because it might allow the king of France to be a candidate for the throne.* Similarly, in 1737 the duke of Lorraine was allowed to retain the county of Falkenstein so as not to jeopardize his future candidacy (Schoell 1:151, 2:252).)
So, the nations/houses of the empire that should have a chance of making the title emperor hereditary would be: Austria, Bavaria/Pfalz, Saxony, and Savoy.
But that would be a bear to script I would imagine so if you really would like to keep it somewhat plausible and still have a shot I would narrow it down to the houses that fall within that range and have also been emperor at least twice. And that leaves Austria and Pfalz/Bayern.
Of course it would involve the Wittelsbachs getting their family off each others throats.... but that can be done.
I would suggest that the real key to the path would not necessarily be the Hungarian inheritence but rather the choice for King of Bohemia in 1440.
If as historic Albrecht fearing that his cousins will be a thorn in his side for his reign and not wanting to borrow more headaches with the Bohemians an their periodica fits of heresy; turns down the crown then Bavaria should be out of the running. Well that is unless the Winterking stays for a loooooot longer then just the winter, and that should not happen.
But if the player decides he can deal with it and makes the choice that Albrecht SHOULD have made. He gets Bohemia, and the event chain makes his line hereditary. The money that Bohemia will/can bring in over time should improve Bavarias lot quite a bit. Since Bayern will control the Bohemian elector, and Pfalz has its' own vote that leaves a rather sizable leg up for IRL election to the big chair!
The Golden Bull of 1356 set the electors as follows (it will change over time but): Three clerical electors: Bishop of Mainz, Bishop of Trier and the Bishop of Koln. Trier IIRC is in Tirol so they could count as a "Habsburg" elector since they can bring some pressure to bear on them. Mainz and Koln are very close to Wittelsbach territory....The lay electors are King of Bohemia, Pfalzgraf, Saxony and the Margrave of Brandenberg.
Although Austria is frequently elected emperor in history, they were not always, and the only house that has been elected more often was the Wittelsbachs. As I recall, they are the only other non extinct house to have ever been elected.
And to wrap this up since it already waaay to long....
The formation of Germany as a unified nation state should take two paths:
Path one; the making of the HRE hereditary. That could be accomplished easiest and therefore the only way that really needs to be scripted for, by one of the houses that were vicars and electors or Austria since they kept getting the gig! It would be helpful if there was a way for the game to elect the King of the Romans so that we knew who the succesor was going to be, but that is a minor point. In order for it to happen the player MUST be Emperor, and have either vassalized or conquered/diplo annexed a majority of the "electors" a much smaller number of actual states then is in the game. This should be easier in the beginning of the game and a bit tougher toward the end since the number of electors went up by almost double IRL.
Path two; the we don't need no stinkin' badges route. Open to any HRE State that has either conquered or diploannexed the majority of the elector states (use the RL electors not the games everyone gets to vote for emperor system). They disolve the Empire and create a new GERMAN state. They should get a boatload of BB points for upsetting the apple cart, literally piss off the Pope, and take a substantial STAB hit, as should other members of the empire! With no empire many nobles will be in a limbo zone that none of them would like.
Should the second path be less painful then just flat out conquering all of Germany? HELL NO! It should be so utterly painful that you would rather light your own bunghole on fire in the short to mid term. That is the reason that noone did it. But if you step upto the plate and do it you should get something, like 1000 VP.
And since the game itself is going to keep on electing emperors... even IF you own every state in the empire (more of my pet peeve here.. conquer all of the HRE as Bavaria sometime and then get really ticked off when apparently YOU elect someone else emperor....). You have a possible undoing of it by outside forces. IE think the war of the Spanish and French successions rolled into one!
The easiest and least painful way should be the first one since all it involves is the majority of the RL electors NOT insisting upon the incoming emperor that they not make the title hereditary. It would be in keeping with the social conventions of the time and it would not upset the legitimacy carts of half the royal and noble houses of the continent.
And I would also suggest a veto on it being done by the AI in the hands of the human player as long as they have a province of the HRE in their possession (using the games version of electors to our advantage). Since the AI should have "make my line Imperial" as option A if the conditions are met. The player should have depending upon which province they hold have a pop up with two options: A, NO! or B, Yes allow it. If they hold a minor province IE not one of the RL electors they cede the province to the new HRE if they click YES, if NO... then the AI gets put back on the historic track. IF the player holds one of the major players in Germany, Italy or the Low Countries, they can choose A, yes, and become vassals, or B NO!
Sorry about the length of the post...
forgot: The second path creation should be open to Brandenburg which would mimic the Prussian formation of Germany in the 19th c. very nicely except for the social unrest bit... you could also open it up to a number of other nations in the game like Hanover etc.
And the other thing... For the Wittelsbachs to have a shot at it they must have taken the offer of the Bohemian crown (need the cash and the cache of being the only other "King" in Germany other then the Emperor), and must have diploannexed the Pfalz to form a unified Wittelsbach front against the Habsburgs.
