A plea to rethink badboy/infamy

[Calgacus]

Always thought that badboy punished one-time actions too harshly (like quick conquests), and ignored long-term expansionism on the part of the mischievous human. AI needs to think more like a human. So very pleased to read some of the dev comments here.

Also, Muscovy "form Russia" badboy should NEVER lead to Castilian or like armies rampaging through Russia. Feel like relation effects need to be more local, at least in the early parts of the game. Either that, or troop movements need to be more realistic (problem for both the EU and the CK games).

 

[unmerged(75409)]

EU3 had waaaay too much bean counting. "Infamy burning" was one such thing. Calculating your rate of BB burn, calculating how much BB a war would give, calculating where your BB limit would be, five years from now, timing your actions accordingly... as if renaissance kings were accountants.

I'm glad they are replacing it with something else!

 

[unmerged(136692)]

I think when we have to appreciate the reputation of a country, others state are looking to the potential threat ( is my neighboor have the capacity to hurt me), and the predictibility (will he do it ?). then there is the legitimacy (Do I recognize the leaser or the state, and do I care or not)

Potential threat cannot decrease if you have a successful imperialism politic - from 1 to 10 for example
Predictibility depend how consistent you are, if always support your allied, if you are using casus belli. (we can imagine that each time you declare war, you disclose the reason why - religious- border - and according to the reason choosen, it will impact your predictibility) - from A to E for example
Legitimacy could be ponderated if you are neighboor - same religion - culture - or if you are a major country or not and how many rebells potential you have. from 1 to 10 again

Then each state will a combined evaluation for each state. like 5A9 -> average threat, with excellent trust, but absolutly doubfull legitimacy.
And then each state based on their relashionship and diplomatic aggreement, will be influenced by one or several of the trigger.

this could be estimated at 2 level, at the bilateral level and at the continental level.

 

[Revshawn]

Just as long as the AI's resistance against expansionism isn't too strict! I love my OPN's. I don't want half the world to RAGEWTFBBQ and blow me up simply because I annexed a few other OPN's of my own culture somewhere and they got all fussy about it!

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Perhaps something related to how imperialistic your nation is? Based on your ratio between provinces that are of your culture, to those that aren't. Also one for religion and heretic and heathen religions. This determines how much your expansion is questioned or that other nations wish to prevent. This is sort of like a counterpart to the over-extension modifier.

 

[Swedish Steel!]

Just as long as the AI's resistance against expansionism isn't too strict! I love my OPN's. I don't want half the world to RAGEWTFBBQ and blow me up simply because I annexed a few other OPN's of my own culture somewhere and they got all fussy about it!

I always got off on that. I, a nigh-unknown barren wasteland with a name, a flag and the national population of what could be a province elsewhere, annex a few provinces no-one except the victim really cares about or and who competitors wanted too. Suddenly every nation discovered by European civilisation despises me as the scum of Earth. The filth that permeats their presence. Entire armies and fleets are sent to invade you... it's just so stupid

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I always got off on that. I, a nigh-unknown barren wasteland with a name, a flag and the national population of what could be a province elsewhere, annex a few provinces no-one except the victim really cares about or and who competitors wanted too. Suddenly every nation discovered by European civilisation despises me as the scum of Earth. The filth that permeats their presence. Entire armies and fleets are sent to invade you... it's just so stupid

One could always mod it so that nations under size 5 get -2 infamy every year or something like that.

 

[panionios]

People tend to forget that the AI is, fundamentally, stupid. If the developer can work around that, it would be great. But if, through their testing, the developer realizes that the new mechanism of "expansion awareness" does not work, the infamy mechanism should return. At the end of the day, it's not great as a game mechanism, but it's not that bad either.

 

[Baneslave]

One could always mod it so that nations under size 5 get -2 infamy every year or something like that.

Bit harder to do in EU4, as there is no infamy mechanic anymore.

 

[Revshawn]

I always got off on that. I, a nigh-unknown barren wasteland with a name, a flag and the national population of what could be a province elsewhere, annex a few provinces no-one except the victim really cares about or and who competitors wanted too. Suddenly every nation discovered by European civilisation despises me as the scum of Earth. The filth that permeats their presence. Entire armies and fleets are sent to invade you... it's just so stupid

Dude I'm right there with you. It sucks. Here I am as the Athens trying to make the modern nation of Greece! I have spent the last couple of decades building up my money supply. I'm ready for war. I turn my gaze to the South...

Morea is 'guaranteed' by England, Scotland, France, the Holy Roman Empire, Sesame Street, Planet Mars, The Justice League, and Sailor Moon.

 

[Lorehead]

Dude I'm right there with you. It sucks. Here I am as the Athens trying to make the modern nation of Greece! I have spent the last couple of decades building up my money supply. I'm ready for war. I turn my gaze to the South...

Morea is 'guaranteed' by England, Scotland, France, the Holy Roman Empire, Sesame Street, Planet Mars, The Justice League, and Sailor Moon.

So you sponsor some rebels to do your dirty work for you. I like that.

As for the original topic, I agree that badboy never worked. I also agree that war exhaustion is a better mechanism for its internal effects, although there should be some severe penalties for depleting your manpower, too. I do hope that blobbing up too successfully makes the remaining powers form a grand coalition against you, since at that point, you’re clearly choosing to play a wargame, you’re very good at it, and that’s the only thing that could possibly still challenge you. It’s not a punishment; it’s the ideal response to that playstyle. As a bonus, it’s also what would have happened in real life. There could be a badboy-like special CB to make you give back all your conquests and lose your colonies.

 

[grommile]

As a bonus, it’s also what would have happened in real life.

Not merely would have, but did. Ask Boney

 

[Lorehead]

Not merely would have, but did. Ask Boney

I originally wrote “grand alliance” instead of “grand coalition,” and should have left it that way. The Grand Alliance was the name of the coalition that formed against Louis XIV, which I somehow mixed up with the Third Coalition against Napoleon. There are of course many more examples than that. If the alternative is to be picked off, one by one, that’s what any sensible targets would do.

 

[MorlanV]

In EU4 you don't have to worry about being a bad boy!

They will use the opinion system from CK2, and I expect that instead of receiving 4 infamy for taking a province, you will have different opinion hits from different countries for different reasons. For example, taking a muslim province will give you a opinion hit from muslim countries, but might give you a opinion boost from catholic countries, except from your rival neighbour that are worried about your expanions. At least that is how I hope that the system will work.

Fantastic, I thought that was a great system in CK2.