Combat Width - Switzerland - Mountaineers - Supply

[TheMoe]

I'm a returning player who is engaged in an experimental game (Naval Germany) designed to expose me to as many aspects of the new game mechanics in the last 3-4 years as possible. Here are areas where I've struggled. I used my previous strategy of 42-44 width divisions, and I specialized to primarily two types.

Here's where I am currently


I really only have these two divisions so far. My medium tanks are building up, but I don't have enough equipment to make a formal division

Infantry + Artillery


Motorized + Artillery


Logistics Company Tier II


Here's where I've struggled so far:

1. Switzerland - My goodness was this ever a bear. First time I've ever taken all of Switzerland as Germany, and supply was a huge issue. I had four squadrons of the transport planes bringing in supplies, and I used a field marshal + General setup with around 20 infantry divisions. Even with all that military might, my general was telling me that our forces were "roughly equal."

--Supply issues - most of the time my units showed the yellow "supply low" indicator, and towards the end of the battle when troops were more confined, the icons turned red
--Fighting in the mountains was awful, and their troops were frequently dug in
--Yes, I had a large portion of my air force (CAS) working them over and I saw huge losses on their end, but it seemed like CAS really didn't matter since the war drug on
--Took far longer to conquer Switzerland than both Yugo and Romania
--I disbanded all my Mountaineer divisions at the start of the game, though I'm rethinking this decision for the next game

How does Germany take Switzerland in a reasonable time frame?
Would it be better to have twice as many 22 width divisions rather than half as many 42 or 44 width divisions in terms of supply?

2. Supply in general is an issue, and I'm playing on easy, with Logistics Company tier II. Is it better in general to have twice as many 22 width divisions, rather than half as many 42 or 44 width divisions, in terms of supply issues (for world conquest)?

3. I also sent some of these larger divisions over to help Japan in China. Strangely, they did just a little better over there in terms of supply. Maybe because there were fewer of them or they were spread across a larger area?

4. What does a good Mountaineer division look like for Germany? Do you keep them and use them in your playthroughs? I'm thinking that in my next go around, I'll create several 22 width divisions of Mountaineers and put them under Kurt Student who already has the "Commando -25% supply penalty" bonus.

Ideas or thoughts on areas I've struggled? Thanks!

 

[marcelo r. r.]

Against Switzerland commit a full field marshall + CAS + the guy that start with fortress buster(henrici i guess), and medium tanks...

Don't bother with DLC Switzerland before barbarrosa. finish soviet union first, then u will have spare troops, and medium tanks.
The DLC Switzerland have awful occupation debuff's, don't worth it before Soviet Union, it will become a sinkhole for your equipment.

If using BBA only venture Switzerland with full collab... if don't use BBA, its fine take it at any time.

 

[TheMoe]

Against Switzerland commit a full field marshall + CAS + the guy that start with fortress buster(henrici i guess), and medium tanks...

Don't bother with DLC Switzerland before barbarrosa. finish soviet union first, then u will have spare troops, and medium tanks.
The DLC Switzerland have awful occupation debuff's, don't worth it before Soviet Union, it will become a sinkhole for your equipment.

If using BBA only venture Switzerland with full collab... if don't use BBA, its fine take it at any time.

Thank you. I was quite surprised at the fight they put up. I'll keep your advice in mind for my next playthrough.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

Thank you. I was quite surprised at the fight they put up. I'll keep your advice in mind for my next playthrough.

i saved you from a headache.

But theres some exceptions: sometimes you finish Soviet Union, and end with some Field Marshal at 99% to Organizer, then say hello to switzerland.
Notice in screenshot im using Martial Law, and even with that i get 40% resistance.

 

[Secret Master]

Don't bother with DLC Switzerland before barbarrosa. finish soviet union first, then u will have spare troops, and medium tanks.
The DLC Switzerland have awful occupation debuff's, don't worth it before Soviet Union, it will become a sinkhole for your equipment.

Does Switzerland have all debuffs in place before September of 1939?

 

[marcelo r. r.]

Does Switzerland have all debuffs in place before September of 1939?

in july 1939 they already have the resistance debuff(aktion nationale).

The remaning "states buff"(3 in total) start appear from mid 1940 to mid 1941. they don't show as national spirits, you only see it clicking on the province:

 

[Synicus]

Sometimes it's best to defend, then counterattack.

 

[TheMoe]

i saved you from a headache.

But theres some exceptions: sometimes you finish Soviet Union, and end with some Field Marshal at 99% to Organizer, then say hello to switzerland.
Notice in screenshot im using Martial Law, and even with that i get 40% resistance.

View attachment 1012683

Thanks! I'll have to go back and check what level the resistance is currently. I don't think I looked closely last time. Gosh, all those buffs sure make sense now that I think back on the battle.

Edit: Glad I checked. Resistance was up to 37% already.

 

[TheMoe]

Does Switzerland have all debuffs in place before September of 1939?

Found the link to your YT channel. I've watched several of your videos before, and I just found another good one. Thanks!

 

[Findell_HOI]

I’d you purposefully let the Swiss take over about 5 tiles away from their capitol in most directions so their troops spread out it is significantly easier to encircle and kill them off rather then doing it in thei mountain tiles.

 

[The Colonel]

For something like Switzerland where the enemy has a small frontage that is relatively heavily defended, it's mostly about choosing smart places and ways to attack. That will matter more than your divisions most of the time. You can battleplan Yugoslavia or Romania or the Soviets because it is a huge front with plenty of weak points to overrun their defense through. With something like Switzerland, I would recommend not battleplanning and actually focusing on microing the best possible offensives. You want to find a tile with the fewest debuffs to you (i.e. better terrain like hills or plains, not mountains, fewest river crossings) that you can attack from as many tiles as possible to improve combat width.

You will have way more troops than Switzerland as Germany, but if you attack them on mountains from one direction they have plenty to fill combat width. If you can find a tile where you can open it up to 150 or even 200 width then you have a chance to outnumber them and get more crits (attacks over their defense) while you yourself have more org to keep the battle going and spread their attacks over more of your breakthrough. More width in the combat also allows more CAS to join, doing more damage to the enemy and helping to ensure you get the maximum ground support combat buff. You can also add railway guns, spies to remove entrenchment, making sure to get your own planning maxxed, etc. Each of these individually will help more than using mountaineer units (remember: mountaineers are just infantry battalions with a slight mountain buff. Infantry alone suck at attacking), and combined will do wonders.

 

[TheMoe]

I’d you purposefully let the Swiss take over about 5 tiles away from their capitol in most directions so their troops spread out it is significantly easier to encircle and kill them off rather then doing it in thei mountain tiles.

Genius. I can declare war through the focus tree and pull my troops back until they spread out a little. Thanks!

 

[TheMoe]

For something like Switzerland where the enemy has a small frontage that is relatively heavily defended, it's mostly about choosing smart places and ways to attack. That will matter more than your divisions most of the time. You can battleplan Yugoslavia or Romania or the Soviets because it is a huge front with plenty of weak points to overrun their defense through. With something like Switzerland, I would recommend not battleplanning and actually focusing on microing the best possible offensives. You want to find a tile with the fewest debuffs to you (i.e. better terrain like hills or plains, not mountains, fewest river crossings) that you can attack from as many tiles as possible to improve combat width.

You will have way more troops than Switzerland as Germany, but if you attack them on mountains from one direction they have plenty to fill combat width. If you can find a tile where you can open it up to 150 or even 200 width then you have a chance to outnumber them and get more crits (attacks over their defense) while you yourself have more org to keep the battle going and spread their attacks over more of your breakthrough. More width in the combat also allows more CAS to join, doing more damage to the enemy and helping to ensure you get the maximum ground support combat buff. You can also add railway guns, spies to remove entrenchment, making sure to get your own planning maxxed, etc. Each of these individually will help more than using mountaineer units (remember: mountaineers are just infantry battalions with a slight mountain buff. Infantry alone suck at attacking), and combined will do wonders.

Fantastic info. Gosh, I completely forgot about using railway guns on my current playthrough. That's something I'll have to revisit next game. Thanks!

 

[Secret Master]

Genius. I can declare war through the focus tree and pull my troops back until they spread out a little. Thanks!

That tactic is even more hilarious when used against the French and the Maginot. The French army will just abandon the Maginot and try to occupy Germany if you pull back from the border. No more fort bonuses for you, Gamelin.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

That tactic is even more hilarious when used against the French and the Maginot. The French army will just abandon the Maginot and try to occupy Germany if you pull back from the border. No more fort bonuses for you, Gamelin.

"Keep men, lose land; land can be taken again. Keep land, lose men; land and men are both lost"

 

[Secret Master]

"Keep men, lose land; land can be taken again. Keep land, lose men; land and men are both lost"
View attachment 1013687

Needs an update for HOI4.

"Lose land, but keep stockpile. Land can be retaken. Lose land, but capitulate, both land and stockpile are lost."

 

[HmJ_JP]

That tactic is even more hilarious when used against the French and the Maginot. The French army will just abandon the Maginot and try to occupy Germany if you pull back from the border. No more fort bonuses for you, Gamelin.

I often like these tactics, work well in HOI4 although AI gets suspicious when the opening is too narrow. But don't try the opposite in 1939 against Germany, it doesn't fare well until you're well equipped.

 

[Secret Master]

I often like these tactics, work well in HOI4 although AI gets suspicious when the opening is too narrow. But don't try the opposite in 1939 against Germany, it doesn't fare well until you're well equipped.

I did it by accident one time in an MP game many years ago.

The weird way some tiles near Kherson are drawn, one time I left one tile completely uncovered along the river. The Italian player sent some motorized troops through the gap, and I didn't notice at first. When I noticed a weird Italian snake heading towards Sevastopol, I panicked for two seconds thinking I had divisions that were outright overrun. Then I realized it was just a tile that wasn't covered with no actual divisions lost. I called in the operational armored reserve and cut off around 15 divisions.

It wasn't 5 dimensional chess, but it looked like it to the Axis.

 

[HmJ_JP]

I did it by accident one time in an MP game many years ago.

The weird way some tiles near Kherson are drawn, one time I left one tile completely uncovered along the river. The Italian player sent some motorized troops through the gap, and I didn't notice at first. When I noticed a weird Italian snake heading towards Sevastopol, I panicked for two seconds thinking I had divisions that were outright overrun. Then I realized it was just a tile that wasn't covered with no actual divisions lost. I called in the operational armored reserve and cut off around 15 divisions.

It wasn't 5 dimensional chess, but it looked like it to the Axis.

I noticed the IA improved on these since NSB.

 

[stormsand9]

I easily crushed Switzerland in my Italy WC run a few months back, but that was after I crushed every other major in the game except Japan and China. I invaded Switzerland sometime in '41 or '42. I believe I improved supply, and I invaded with overwhelming force but I just used a basic 9/1 template with support art and engineers, maybe logistics. (I used that division with the log support company to fight in China then South America) and of course had crushing air superiority. However, I think one of the reasons I won so quickly was because all of their divisions were at very low org- I had a permanent wargoal on them thanks to one of the roman focus', so unlike a regular focus/justification they couldn't really tell when I was gonna invade them so AI Switzerland could do the decision that orgs all their militia.