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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #66 - Patch 1.1 (part 2)

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Greetings my fellow Victorians, Paul here to talk about some of the things I have been doing for Patch 1.1.

As was said in previous dev diaries, this patch (1.1) is going to primarily focus on game polish: bug fixing, balancing, AI improvements and UI/UX work, while the next major free patch (1.2) is going to be more focused towards making progress on the plans we’ve outlined in our Post-Release Plans DD by iterating on systems like warfare and diplomacy. Hotfix (1.0.6) should be out for you all with performance improvements and some bug fixes in the meantime.

So what have I been doing? Balance work, alongside bug fixing, and assisting with some UI work and bettering of the player experience. I’m new to the design team and during my onboarding I've been able to utilize one of my special talents: I love spreadsheets and data - so I’ve been working on building profitability, production methods, and resource availability. In Patch 1.1 two large changes I have made are to Oil and Rubber and I’ve got some cool resource maps to show you the changes.

And before you take a look at the images showcasing what changes I have done, a big shoutout to @Licarious who made the tool that I am utilizing here today. This tool is open for you all on the forum in this thread. I have found the tool to be particularly lovely, helping me make quick visualizations of the changes I am considering in the game. It's one thing to balance a spreadsheet but another to take a look at the changes proposed on the map itself.

The World’s discoverable Oil Supply as of 1.0.6
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In the version of the game you are all currently playing, these are the oil reserves that are discoverable in game. They are mostly the historical oil fields that were cultivated over the current knowledge of where Oil is and has been accessible (even if we did not find out about it until later than 1936). As you’ve no doubt noticed in your later games, Oil is a scarce resource and limits the progress of later game industrialization. While we want Oil to be an important late-game resource, its current bottleneck as an available resource is a little too harsh to the player’s experience so we’ve expanded the discoverable oil fields in game.

I spent a few days going through various feedback threads on the Discord and forums, alongside as many natural resource distribution maps as I could to give a better estimate of the world’s oil supply and help make the game representative of that. As of now we’ve doubled the world’s potential oil fields to give rise to a more plentiful supply in the world by both player and AI actions.

The World’s discoverable Oil Supply as of 1.1.0
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I know some of you might be asking, why did we not just increase the production of oil methods and leave the historical oil fields in place? Why have you included [specific] oil fields that were not tapped until ~1950! etc.Those fields represent a usage of either Oil Sands, or some various substrate that would have not been accessible at the time.

These are all some valid questions and I will no doubt go into more detail in the thread about choices made, but some quick answers.
  • Oil production methods are already incredibly profitable and buffing them further would help but probably not fully solve the problem.
  • The gating of Oil Fields to only historically extracted areas is always tricky, if Russia and the United States collapse in game, 50%+ of the world's oil supply is locked behind their regression and the world suffers. We want to have historical credibility but also give players multiple avenues to pursue.
  • We don’t exactly leave a track record of “this field would have been accessible in 1880" etc in our history books when we discover new resources, so best guesstimates have to be used and a balance between historical and semi-balanced gameplay has to be found.

We are by no means done with Oil, this is my first step in their balancing and it's been sent off to QA to run tests and gather feedback. I’ve got plenty of possibilities to look into but I want to make iterative changes instead of altering many things at once and not seeing the full impact.

Things I am looking into for the future includes
  • Gating some oil reserve potential behind tech to make it where deposits that were not found until more modern days are harder for the player to get to, but still possible.
  • If Oil Supply is still too short - looking into adding more variation of production methods of balancing of input/output of those factories.
  • Giving the Whale Oil Industry a bit more of a kick into gear in the early stages of the game.

So keep your feedback on the forums/Discord coming! I might not read and answer them right away but I do collate them for future reference and they’ve been incredibly helpful in my efforts.

And now onto the world’s rubber supply, which I have also adjusted for Patch 1.1.

The World’s discoverable Rubber Supply as of 1.0.6
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While not as much of a bottleneck as the world oil supply, rubber is found to not be plentiful enough to meet world demand at current. And as we make the AI better at extracting and utilizing resources in game, we no doubt have to increase the rubber supply available to the world.

And so here are the changes.

The World’s discoverable Rubber Supply as of 1.1.0
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Notice the differences? Your eyes aren’t deceiving you, the two maps are the same - and this is not a mistake. The changes to Rubber have been focused on its vertical margins as opposed to the horizontal margins. While I could have upped the world supply of rubber, looking at the later game saves I found it was population issues which were preventing the resource from meeting demands, etc.

So, what I did instead was add a new PM to Rubber Plantations, giving them an automatic irrigation system (like that of the other Plantations this building shares relation to in name only) to symbolize later efforts to modernize plantations and not be fully rainfall dependent. This would help increase the productivity of buildings already in game.

Rubber Plantations can now double their effective output in the later game, by replacing some employees with machines.
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Items I am looking into for the future include:
  • Adding more Rubber potential to the world if this PM is not enough
  • Potential synthetic rubber in the late game?
  • State traits for the specific areas of the world best suited to its cultivation to help throughput

These two resource changes have been put into 1.1 among other things and are currently being vetted for balance and functionality by the QA team. I look forward to hearing your thoughts as well but remember that all numbers are currently WIP. If you have thoughts and opinions and can find me a source backing up your claims, please feel free to put them in the thread or on Discord/forums where then can continue to be collated for me.

What am I doing while this is being vetted? Why I am breaking ground into future balance changes in 1.2! As stated elsewhere on these forums, I am looking into the arable land balance of the game making changes to them. Since these changes have the potential to upend the world economy, I’m getting this branch settled early so we have as much time on our end to iterate on its balance. I will also take feedback from players upon 1.1s upcoming release, then look into tweaking other resources’ balance and such. There are always a few things to tweak!

And that’s it for this dev diary, with this little peek behind the curtain of work being done I am now going to return to it and read through the QA feedback. Then do some further balancing as needed and my work for Patch 1.2.

Patch 1.1 is planned to release before the end of the year and it's already November so it's not that far away in the grand scheme of things. Next week we will talk about some more of the changes in that patch.
 
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“And as we make the AI better at extracting and utilizing resources in game”

It’s ok to read the text before commenting, guys.
 
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Oh man I beg that you tone down the addition of huge amounts more oil, half the fun of the game is competition for resources! Maybe some kind of halfway house first rather than a big bang of oil everywhere??
If you look closely at the difference between the maps (which isn't easy because of the low resolution) you'll see that almost all of the new oil deposits are just 5 units. Considering that even countries with major oil deposits like Germany struggle with production I think this will hardly reduce competition. Personally as Germany I still had a massive shortage even after stealing the Frisian oil fields.
 
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very nice, definitely will check out the tool of Licarious!

Btw, right now we can‘t display variables in GUI, is there any news on that front? Or any modding updates in general?
 
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My biggest problem is hardwood and contrary to oil I can't solve (or at least delay) it by sniping Texas or Basra.
Agreed. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I think hardwood production building should be separated from normal wood as they are separated species of trees. I believed cutting a hardwood tree would yield only or mostly hardwood IRL, not a mixed of mostly normal wood as in Vic3?

So if I want to do a hardwood business why do my workers keep chopping down the wrong trees?

Edit: Ah I just checked. Vic2 did has two separated wood productions.

Edit2: Now I’m start thinking why not separate every production? Why I have to plant a ridiculous amount of wheat when I want to do just a few orchards? CPU performance problem?
 
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In Brazil, more than 80% of oil today is extracted in Rio de Janeiro. But oil is absent in the map.

Rio Grande do Norte has ground extraction, also not present in the map.

Paraná has oil shale extraction, also no oil in the map.

Some Brazilian states that have never had oil now have oil potential. Can’t understand the logic behind
Santa Catarina is the 2nd largest producer of rice in Brazil today, and yet the game doesn't allow a single rice farm there.
147 thousand hectares (source: https://www.conab.gov.br/component/k2/item/download/45014_60f8a673c2e671abb5efe72174e06810 )

I feel personally hurt, because this is what my ancestors did, and the fields are still there.
 
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I know some of you might be asking, why did we not just increase the production of oil methods and leave the historical oil fields in place?
There's also the third option of increasing the number of slots in existing oil fields. Just doubling still doesn't feel like enough oil. In my US game at 1900, I had reverted all my railroads to electric, all my power plants to coal, and the entire potential output of North America still wasn't sufficient. Hitting peak oil in the late 1800s feels incredibly ahistorical.
 
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Can some rubber be "discoverable" in Southern China? Rubber was introduced in China around 1896, and was planted in large quantities in the province of Yunnan and Hainan (in game part of the Guangdong province).

China has in general pathetic resources compared to other regions. For example, China have one the world's largest lead deposits, yet in game there is barely any. Genreally more resources would be appreciated. (As a sidenote, please add maize to Northern China, where it has been grown in large quantites since its introduction in the 16th century. Although gameplay wise it's not meaningful, it is historically and culturally meaningful)
 
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I know WIP and all that but my eye meter has calculated 334.680 max oil production in that map
is that enough?
(I'm probably way off since there were already 190K oil production in the map)
 
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I really appreciate the increase in oil but i think you should also reduse the pops needed to work in oil. it doesn't matter if you put 50 oil in texas if there is no population to work there. This applies to almost all oil extraction in norths/souths America siberia and sahara desert.
 
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Great content, still hope for improvement for historical accuracy and country differences reform (repost last week suggestions)

1. Great Qing should be freedom of conscience at start about be legacy slavery, Great Qing hasn't abolished their slave servant until 1910. What's more, Great Qing should be much weaker and harder to modernize. This is unbelievable Qing have the ability to mobilize battalion like a modern country. Eastern empire actually ruled their country in totally different logic with western country, it's unthinkable for Qing to build "university" on their game before they make decision to westernize. Because that would be rebellion to the traditional "KEJU" system. Also Qing totally have no interest to industrialize before they realize they need to innovation. And the progress stuck in Chinese empire and low government efficiency now have no representation in the game.

2. Europe country and united states should have more difference between countries to make more accurate to play different country. Britain should have intelligent group who is neutral attitude between monarchy and republic but more enlighten landowner and church, now Tory party have exactly same ideology with Bonapartist. Meanwhile it's hard to believe U.S petite Bourgeois opposed Republic and more favor to Monarchy and Theocracy.

3. I hope there will be more useful if I have more democratic laws, now democratic laws only lost authority if I enact universal suffrage. The change on content about legitimacy seems great on this issue.

4. I hope the leader of interest group have less influence for interest group. Now it's not plausible one interest group is super satisfied now and suddenly super radical socialist only because they change a leader and ignored that country is already super care about their interest on welfare or freedom of speech. What's more, I think there should be some more mechanic to permanent change interest group ideology. Like if country stay democratic and generous for workers, trade union should not believe communist or other radical belief. And the feminist law now have bug, after let trade union or intellegience accept feminist, it/s actually not working. They still hate female leader after feminist leader leave.

5. I totally agree with the strengthen of the discrimination law, but meanwhile, I hope the liberal citizen ship policy could have less penalty for authority. I think that cause a liberal society hard to gain consumption tax which propably should be announced by adminstration ability instead of authority.

6. Hope to strengthen private school and public school or weaken church school, It's hard to believe church school system have same innovation and education access when they teach student more to believe god blindly instead of scientific method

7. Hope path to socialism and path to fascism could be reblanced. Now it's super hard to stay democratic even you actually already satisfied your citizens, they still became radicalized for simply a leader changing and will forever became more radical to your country.

8. Since the change of democratic laws and more impact on voting, Maybe government form could also impact these? Parliament republic and President republic might more count on vote if they're democratic I think.

9. I think the political system is confusing now because now it had very vague definition of "government" and "opposition" concept, maybe the final structure of the game is to draw detail representation of parliament for democratic country if it's possible. For 1.10, I think maybe they can make a concept of "loyal opposition". Or maybe paradox define "government" itself is a coalition between all accept parliament member ( but to be honest, that definition is really awful) I think as long as paradox doesn't make a change to represent "parliament system", because under parliament system, opposition is also on parliament. Because liberal democratic system have total different ruling logic than Autocracy system, now they're sharing same system to represent their ruling situation. For example, it;s hard to imagine a "legitimate government" have same meaning under Democratic system and Autocracy system. But now they have same effect. What's more, I hope Paradox could provide more authority for democratic government if they're legitimate. Maybe in Future, we can see the dictatorship system worked total different with democratic political structure.

10. Hope for some strengthen to regular troops whether what the military law is. It's hard to believe conscription army could have same ability with regular armies. And I think the advantage for high technology army method should be strengthens. Irregular troops in history always have low morale to fight, skirmish army should always could easily against irregular troops. Same for Mechanic army also should easily defeated line infantry.
At the end of the day, I think Victoria 3 has big big potential, and might have the most mature economic system on historical strategic game until now. But I think more detailed system reformed and focus on historical accuracy and nation differences will make this game wonderful, or maybe one of the greatest historical strategic on this century. Hope for the best


PS: I noticed the rubber now have new PM for increasing their production. I think the oil in China seems too much according to historical area. Maybe consider reduced some oil area for China? I guess. What's more, I begin to hope the railway transport for mines or plantation could increase the production, and other automation PM on industrial method also could increase production for one reason: Quality. It's always faster and safer to use automatic PM in factory, and less plantation will be damaged on transport process if use railway transport. Hope you could consider about it.

PS2: Please add more complex and more technology tree and tried to limit eastern country to study western industrialization tech before they make westernize reform or could research how much technology depending on their reform faction's strength. For more technologies reason, I just simply find that protected speech has no use at the end of the game era because there are no use of technology spreading.
 
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I personally really like the increase in oil availability as I've usually been avoid oil consuming PMs except for the army and navy due to scarcity.

Have you considered adding coal liquefaction to the late game, as a way to produce oil from coal?
 
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View attachment 912338
100 oil goods (that may or may not exist) to anyone that can read the values for me
For new stuff looks like highlighted states in UK, Spain, Italy, and Albania are 5s. Those 2 new ones around the Carpathian mountains look like 60 and 30. That new one along the Danube looks like a 18.
 
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Ok, but the problems with oil aren't so much there isn't enough reserves it's that the AI just refuses to build oil rigs. Is that being addressed?
Yes this is what I am worried about. As long as the AI can not get a handle on the economic part of the game, balancing will be exponentially harder because you can never be sure that resource increases will actually be developed by the AI.
 
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@PDJR_Alastorn lovely changes, in my playthroughs i noticed some particular shortcomings of coal in the very early and very late game. In the late game particular i was also confronted with a huge surplus of wood. I personally would love to see an extra PM added to logging camps that adds a small output of coal at the expense of wood output to solve both issues.
Something to look into in the future. I have a hunch the coal shortcomings is due to the oil shortage and the AI not making the jump over to that resource.

We will see how things tend in the future.
 
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Hi, could You add pls some reduction of infrastructure usage if input goods are locally available??? Thx
I also consider it necessary. This will be an incentive to build enterprises in provinces with resources, as happens in real life.
Another option is to make the price of resources in the places of their extraction lower - then local production will be more profitable.
 
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Ok, but the problems with oil aren't so much there isn't enough reserves it's that the AI just refuses to build oil rigs. Is that being addressed?
That is also being addressed by AI changes being made and iterated on.

Even if there was AI development of all oil the data I was having indicated we would still need to deepen the world's oil supply.

I said in the dev diary we are actively making the AI better at these things, let's not fall to the object permanence of this is the sole solution of 1.1 towards this.

It's many things and there's a fun tangent on how Im pretty sure the character age bug is what has also been propping up the games current regressive regimes.
 
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