[Dev Team] 2.6.3 Beta Patch Released [checksum ae56]
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Don't confuse governing ethics with a brainwashing of your entire population. Stellaris doesn't do "planet of hats" sci-fi, where everybody has the same ethical outlook.
That your governing ethics are fanatic materialist does not imply that nobody has a spiritualist mindset, nor does it imply that a spiritualist worldview influencing people in strict opposition to the governing ethics doesn't exist in your population strong enough to organize in opposition.
If you want everybody to think the same, gestalt consciousness is the way to go in Stellaris, unified in mind and unshackled from ethics.
You got a bad rollGuys... it doesn't work.
https://imgur.com/a/V7zf5kE
Ethics attraction still doesn't work. I've only stopped suppressing the Spiritualists and promoting the Materialist twice in the entire 90-something year run. For like a couple of months to rush influence for building habitats or elections.
Other ethics are fixed, like I don't have an expected 4% of Pacifists for whatever reason, but I cannot make my pops abandon the Spiritualist faction and switch to either of the other three. My materialists, in the meantime, are expected to be 63%, whereas only 35% of my pops embrace that ethic.
Seriously. It's freaking insane. Not to mention, why do I even get Spiritualist factions as a Fanatic Materialist at the start? If you give me the tools to design my nation as a player, how does it make sense for the game to just walk over my choice by popping up an opposite faction right at the start, with no way to reduce its numbers? And even if there was such a way, again, why does it make sense?
If I want a spiritualist faction, I'll go Psionic theory, I'll avoid getting robots, but I should just get spiritualists out of nowhere at the game start, when I chose to play the materialists. It's like you start playing a mage and then the game tells you, "hey, you'll have to be a warrior I guess".
, just restart and pray to rng for better factions.
I do agree with you. However, I would say it makes sense, in regards to gameplay, for these factions to pop up later out of events and contact with other Empires. Not completely randomly, and possibly not containing a large chunk of your population. Because they do make your influence (a large bottleneck to many things these days), and it can be frustrating if a major faction in your Empire is the complete opposite of what you're about. Meanwhile, you can't do much/anything to appease them (because the biggest offenders of what you're doing is what they hate the most), or at least make them switch to other ethics.
So this does invite discussion of more ways of dealing/interacting with factions, as well as more nuance between them. Why can't there be Spiritualists who like robots? Why can't there be Pacifists who want to Liberate everyone rather than sitting on their hands? Why can't there be Materialists who are wary of robots and prefer bio-ascension?
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It originally did, but no longer does, and I don't think the change was listed in any of the patch notes.
What's so ridiculous about this?
It's not a requirement, but it's still my preference to build it in my capital system. And the ability to build it on The Interloper in the Shattered Ring origin was perfect for that.
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Philosophically the Assembly probably should be buildable in ringworld systems. Especially the Shattered Ring.
Consider buffing Bureaucrats in the May update please. As they are right now they massively increase micromanagement and only create feels-bad moments.
You got a bad roll
Yeah, I understand.
Like I didn't get Egalitarian, Xenophile, Authoritarian and other factions at all, which is rather right. But they said this update would allow pops to actually SHIFT ethics (something was preventing them from shifting them correctly earlier), and as you can see, your actions (promoting factions, suppressing factions) don't really make it change at all.I'm not trying to blow it out of proportion, but it's a pretty huge issue for me. I'm glad to see the current fixes being put in place, but I think it'd be great to hear more on this issue from the PDX staff.
We are all looking forwards to the day pop ethics shifting works right again and on a timely rather than glacial scale.Yeah, I understand.
I'm not trying to blow it out of proportion, but it's a pretty huge issue for me. I'm glad to see the current fixes being put in place, but I think it'd be great to hear more on this issue from the PDX staff.
Until ethics shifting is definitely fixed, for real, I recommend using the Real Pop Ethics Shifting mod, which so far has done the job rather well.
So, to get this straight...
The changes are more or less a nerf to one of the 2 ascension perks that suck more than psionic.
Here's a change: Biological ascension increases the chance of the Prethoryn Scourge happening, and Flesh is Weak increases the chance of the Contingency happening to the point that it can overpower the massively easy potential to get the Unbidden.
I'm okay with more Crisis Strength, but the Crises are also just still terrible. I get Unbidden literally 100% of the time. I've never gotten anything else a single time because it's both too easy to get them, and the triggers are: The best Ascension Path and a Jump drive literally every AI will eventually get.
Meanwhile Machine Empires don't result in increasing the Contingency, and Hiveminds don't increase the Prethoryn, which would make sense because there's simply more to eat there than normal worlds would have.
I kinda don't get why Flesh should get a 23% reduction to the pop growth, aren't assembler pops normally really slow compared to normal biological pop growth anyways? I never play it, so I wouldn't know, but it's just what I feel might be the case.
Also I don't think the nerf to the Cybrex War Forge is really all that needed. What I think is needed, is to buff literally most other precursors, and to give all relics a buff based on what you are, so... you know... you don't end up with something useless like a biological pop growth relic on a Machine Empire?
By the way, in the long run, this is potentially nothing but a nerf to the WAr forge to the point of near worthlessness. 10K minerals for 5K Alloys? Yeah that'll be good in the early and mid-game, but End-game? If you're playing well, you're making 5K alloys per month man, unless you guys plan to give me an edict to reduce my alloy production by 50%, but to increase pop assembly by 25%, it's not really useful at all beyond that.
5% more alloys is nice, but honestly it's also a bonus so small that when the active effect matters, the passive effect doesn't and vice-versa.
15% more alloys passive, and a mineral and Alloy cost that is based on total income put against total resource cap that can change overtime, would be a significant help, which precursor Relics undeniably should be, otherwise there's literally no point, not to mention in a singleplayer game, there's no actual way to get the one you need without save-scumming which is just a plain old design oversight based on how the relics and precursor systems are designed in theory. I say in theory because the execution is shaky at best overall, some cases, it's done well, in others it WAS done well but as of now isn't really, and in other cases, they might as well not even exist.
Also other relics mostly kinda just suck for being precursor ones. Not to also mention precursor systems are all over the place. The Irassians are kind of the worst one in my opinion. I'm not sure if the Pox orbital stance life wipes planets faster than an Armageddon stance in a game where bombardment damage rates have a hard cap that really isn't even close to slightly high.
Also tbh Shard killing everyone on the planet would be a new thing, because she literally never did that previously. Like, actually never a single time has it happened, so that's nice. Still gonna make a big citadel just for the purpose of killing Shard though.
Storage cap on the galactic market is nice, though I still would also like the option to opt out of it at a massive opinion penalty for materialist and authoritarian empires. I like having consistent prices, and also being inward perfectionist, it doesn't make sense to be in said galactic market.
A buff to inferior strategies, is, in the end, a nerf to all dominant ones as people will use them less.
Also someone mentioned it, but Liberation wars shouldn't do anything to Origins, because you can't liberate someone from their past. Like... you definitively can't. Time travel isn't a thing in Stellaris. Liberation wars should only affect Ethics and policies that result in supposed violations of civilian rights (like a species being purged should be grounds for a liberation war where either you gain those pops in a "fight them to rescue these people" or you have no choice but to let them live, which has tons of problems with Machine Worlds where pops are purged automatically.
Also one change I'd like, is for Machine Worlds to be capable of building Hydroponic Farms. It doesn't require soil, because that's not what Hydroponics uses by definition, and the Farms are enclosed environments, meaning they themselves could produce oxygen.
Here's how you could balance it: Make Machine Worlds increase the upkeep and cost of Hydroponic farms by 25% or something and farmer pops now require either 0.5 alloys upkeep (due to increased maintenance requirements) or maybe a small upkeep of minerals or reduce the amount you get from them, because we don't currently have an energy-production method via building slots beyond grids and waste reprocessing facilities.
Also honestly I want the ringworld Start to be nerfed in that Arcane Generators adjust for upkeep reductions, but cover absolutely every district in the ringworld segment.
I also want Arcane Generators to be in the other Segments as well, and honestly? It's really only good early-game, when you're able to refine strategies resources, Arcane Generators is worthless.
I was hoping I could fully repair the ringworld segments and get some really powerful benefits, it being just a 3-section ringworld start with a bit of extra minerals is just lame. Habitat Origin should also get a buff, like say... a permanent +2 to habitat max districts? Ofcourse the others could use their own powerful buffs in different ways, but I dunno how to suggest 'em.
Ignoring how enemies do nothing in a war unless they have a 100% chance of winning, and crisises being mostly just boring and almost totally pointless, game still has a ton of reasons to use mods as a way ot make it more enjoyable, and to not feel like it's just interactive swiss cheese in that... you know... it lacks a ton of content.
Like, for example, I want a way to get more megastructures, even if it costs more to make additional copies. I want there to be a ton of end-game techs that only unlock from say... fighting endgame crises, or mid-game crises and studying the remains of crisis ships.
Though, i'd also like to be able to just make Machine Worlds into normal ones as a Machine Empire, because otherwise we might as well remove the Bio-Reactor completely, since MEs also can't say... min-max argicultural districts on normal worlds.
But, I'm glad you guys are working on the performance and desync issues. Just please do that more until it's deemed overkill, the game probably still badly needs desync fixes, not to mention just generalized performance fixes, after all, you guys wouldn't let content creators play games past a certain point when playing Federations early.
That's a look that indicates you guys know just how bad the performance is/was, but have up to this point, done almost nothing to fix. I sure hope you guys changed that attitude.
The changes are more or less a nerf to one of the 2 ascension perks that suck more than psionic.
Here's a change: Biological ascension increases the chance of the Prethoryn Scourge happening, and Flesh is Weak increases the chance of the Contingency happening to the point that it can overpower the massively easy potential to get the Unbidden.
I'm okay with more Crisis Strength, but the Crises are also just still terrible. I get Unbidden literally 100% of the time. I've never gotten anything else a single time because it's both too easy to get them, and the triggers are: The best Ascension Path and a Jump drive literally every AI will eventually get.
Meanwhile Machine Empires don't result in increasing the Contingency, and Hiveminds don't increase the Prethoryn, which would make sense because there's simply more to eat there than normal worlds would have.
I kinda don't get why Flesh should get a 23% reduction to the pop growth, aren't assembler pops normally really slow compared to normal biological pop growth anyways? I never play it, so I wouldn't know, but it's just what I feel might be the case.
Also I don't think the nerf to the Cybrex War Forge is really all that needed. What I think is needed, is to buff literally most other precursors, and to give all relics a buff based on what you are, so... you know... you don't end up with something useless like a biological pop growth relic on a Machine Empire?
By the way, in the long run, this is potentially nothing but a nerf to the WAr forge to the point of near worthlessness. 10K minerals for 5K Alloys? Yeah that'll be good in the early and mid-game, but End-game? If you're playing well, you're making 5K alloys per month man, unless you guys plan to give me an edict to reduce my alloy production by 50%, but to increase pop assembly by 25%, it's not really useful at all beyond that.
5% more alloys is nice, but honestly it's also a bonus so small that when the active effect matters, the passive effect doesn't and vice-versa.
15% more alloys passive, and a mineral and Alloy cost that is based on total income put against total resource cap that can change overtime, would be a significant help, which precursor Relics undeniably should be, otherwise there's literally no point, not to mention in a singleplayer game, there's no actual way to get the one you need without save-scumming which is just a plain old design oversight based on how the relics and precursor systems are designed in theory. I say in theory because the execution is shaky at best overall, some cases, it's done well, in others it WAS done well but as of now isn't really, and in other cases, they might as well not even exist.
Also other relics mostly kinda just suck for being precursor ones. Not to also mention precursor systems are all over the place. The Irassians are kind of the worst one in my opinion. I'm not sure if the Pox orbital stance life wipes planets faster than an Armageddon stance in a game where bombardment damage rates have a hard cap that really isn't even close to slightly high.
Also tbh Shard killing everyone on the planet would be a new thing, because she literally never did that previously. Like, actually never a single time has it happened, so that's nice. Still gonna make a big citadel just for the purpose of killing Shard though.
Storage cap on the galactic market is nice, though I still would also like the option to opt out of it at a massive opinion penalty for materialist and authoritarian empires. I like having consistent prices, and also being inward perfectionist, it doesn't make sense to be in said galactic market.
A buff to inferior strategies, is, in the end, a nerf to all dominant ones as people will use them less.
Also someone mentioned it, but Liberation wars shouldn't do anything to Origins, because you can't liberate someone from their past. Like... you definitively can't. Time travel isn't a thing in Stellaris. Liberation wars should only affect Ethics and policies that result in supposed violations of civilian rights (like a species being purged should be grounds for a liberation war where either you gain those pops in a "fight them to rescue these people" or you have no choice but to let them live, which has tons of problems with Machine Worlds where pops are purged automatically.
Also one change I'd like, is for Machine Worlds to be capable of building Hydroponic Farms. It doesn't require soil, because that's not what Hydroponics uses by definition, and the Farms are enclosed environments, meaning they themselves could produce oxygen.
Here's how you could balance it: Make Machine Worlds increase the upkeep and cost of Hydroponic farms by 25% or something and farmer pops now require either 0.5 alloys upkeep (due to increased maintenance requirements) or maybe a small upkeep of minerals or reduce the amount you get from them, because we don't currently have an energy-production method via building slots beyond grids and waste reprocessing facilities.
Also honestly I want the ringworld Start to be nerfed in that Arcane Generators adjust for upkeep reductions, but cover absolutely every district in the ringworld segment.
I also want Arcane Generators to be in the other Segments as well, and honestly? It's really only good early-game, when you're able to refine strategies resources, Arcane Generators is worthless.
I was hoping I could fully repair the ringworld segments and get some really powerful benefits, it being just a 3-section ringworld start with a bit of extra minerals is just lame. Habitat Origin should also get a buff, like say... a permanent +2 to habitat max districts? Ofcourse the others could use their own powerful buffs in different ways, but I dunno how to suggest 'em.
Ignoring how enemies do nothing in a war unless they have a 100% chance of winning, and crisises being mostly just boring and almost totally pointless, game still has a ton of reasons to use mods as a way ot make it more enjoyable, and to not feel like it's just interactive swiss cheese in that... you know... it lacks a ton of content.
Like, for example, I want a way to get more megastructures, even if it costs more to make additional copies. I want there to be a ton of end-game techs that only unlock from say... fighting endgame crises, or mid-game crises and studying the remains of crisis ships.
Though, i'd also like to be able to just make Machine Worlds into normal ones as a Machine Empire, because otherwise we might as well remove the Bio-Reactor completely, since MEs also can't say... min-max argicultural districts on normal worlds.
But, I'm glad you guys are working on the performance and desync issues. Just please do that more until it's deemed overkill, the game probably still badly needs desync fixes, not to mention just generalized performance fixes, after all, you guys wouldn't let content creators play games past a certain point when playing Federations early.
That's a look that indicates you guys know just how bad the performance is/was, but have up to this point, done almost nothing to fix. I sure hope you guys changed that attitude.
You people disagreeing with me don't read tooltips do you? The only time you ever want to employ a Bureaucrat is when you tech up/edict up etc. at ANY other point in the game it is more economical to put those Bureaucrats into unemployment given the job doesn't provide any relevant value and takes CG upkeep.
Start the game. Disable Bureaucrat job, let month tick and check it. Have fun keeping track of your unity and tech so when the time comes you can employ them or shift them from other jobs to not pay the increase in cost from Administrative Capacity.
Start the game. Disable Bureaucrat job, let month tick and check it. Have fun keeping track of your unity and tech so when the time comes you can employ them or shift them from other jobs to not pay the increase in cost from Administrative Capacity.
Guys... it doesn't work.
https://imgur.com/a/V7zf5kE
Ethics attraction still doesn't work. I've only stopped suppressing the Spiritualists and promoting the Materialist twice in the entire 90-something year run. For like a couple of months to rush influence for building habitats or elections.
Other ethics are fixed, like I don't have an expected 4% of Pacifists for whatever reason, but I cannot make my pops abandon the Spiritualist faction and switch to either of the other three. My materialists, in the meantime, are expected to be 63%, whereas only 35% of my pops embrace that ethic.
Seriously. It's freaking insane. Not to mention, why do I even get Spiritualist factions as a Fanatic Materialist at the start? If you give me the tools to design my nation as a player, how does it make sense for the game to just walk over my choice by popping up an opposite faction right at the start, with no way to reduce its numbers? And even if there was such a way, again, why does it make sense?
If I want a spiritualist faction, I'll go Psionic theory, I'll avoid getting robots, but I should just get spiritualists out of nowhere at the game start, when I chose to play the materialists. It's like you start playing a mage and then the game tells you, "hey, you'll have to be a warrior I guess".
This is pretty troubling. Anyone else able to confirm?
There's a difference between having manageable (aka ones you can INTERACT with) factions and just an opposite attraction faction that's fucking with your concept. I love the idea of getting a third, fourth or fifth faction like pacifists, egalitarians, xenophobes or xenophiles depending on the nation I'm playing. It's realistic representation that some of my worlds are more pro- or anti-xeno, whilst others are more concerned for the nation to maintain its scientific or racial superiority.
You're not supposed to randomly get your starting leader become a faction leader of an opposite ethic with NO way that you, as a player, could've prevented that through active actions or inaction.
You, as a player, are given a nation designer. You choose to play a militarist nation that's defined by its pursuit for conquest and maintains a warlike society. It doesn't just become 50% pacifist at the start. And if it did, you as a player are supposed to either shift towards that completely or shift away from it, which is exactly what you cannot currently do.
Don't try to come in making up excuses for stuff that doesn't work, please. I've never argued that I should only have two factions, corresponding for my fan. ethic and the secondary ethic. That's actually the opposite of what I want to see, I just want to see something that /works/ and /makes sense/.
I'll go for another completely identical run (as in, identical nation & galaxy settings) to see how it works out this time. If I get a spiritualist faction as a fan materialist, I'm keeping it suppressed the entire game (if I don't get one I'll be happy af).
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Just keep them employed on designated Beurocratic Center colonies so that empire sprawl stays consistently under admin cap? You want tech costs to remain as low as possible at all times, anyway. You don't have to continuously unemploy them and reemploy them all the time.
You dont want that. Instead you sit at 500/50 during the game and once you hit eg. 3000 Society research you go shift your Researchers into Bureaucrats to have 500/500 admin cap, pick the research that costs 3000 and then you shift them back to Researchers.
Bureaucrats do nothing other draining resources each month while they only have a value once every 1000 months.
I like the performance fixes but was dissapointed that you cannot form a military federation as robots.
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I mean yeah if you're going for maximum efficiency you should employ exactly enough bureaucrats to keep you under the admin cap and no more, and employ one more whenever you go over it.
But the consumer good gain is pretty negligible for all the effort it takes.
But the consumer good gain is pretty negligible for all the effort it takes.
Sure, if you want to make things needlessly difficult for yourself. And if you want Bureaucrats to, e.g. produce unity, then you can just pick the Byzantine Bureaucracy civic. Easy as that.
Your solution (buff bureaucrats) is the wrong one.
The correct solution is "make oversprawl matter at all times".