EU4 - Development Diary - 17th March 2016

[GiftGruen]

Wow, an alternative to the nerfed-to-the-ground Enforce Peace mechanic! Wonder how long it will take this one to be ground into a niche feature without real tactical benefit because its use is so restricted.

No, actually, it sounds like a fun addition.

 

[Renen]

The fun that can be had with this

Questions:

Can I do this with the Religious League war, send my troops to one of the countries involved without joining myself?
Can you send Condottieri to a subject (vassal/PU/colony) nation?
If you can, do Condottieri count towards the Liberty Desire of the subject nation?
Are there any restrictions on who can do it or who you can do it with, ie Christians fighting for Muslims etc?

1) I dont see why not. League war is just another war.
2) If the vassal is in a war, I dont see why you cant rent them troops. Though it MIGHT be just restricted to renting to their overlord.
3) The troops stay with you. You just become an un-official participant in the war. LD shouldnt increase.
4) If pope can ally kebab, I see no reason why they cant send them mercs too

 

[Isnah]

Any real world example for this idea? I know that Eu4 isn't very historical accurate (and most of his mechanics even less...), but I think that using other name instead if condotteri (who were basically mercenaries) would be more appropriate

The German states rented out their armies to other nations from time to time. The most famous example would be Hesse-Kassel, who rented out armies to both sides in the War of the Austrian Succession. Britain employed Hessian soldiers extensively in the American Revolutionary War as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessian_(soldier)

 

[Renen]

@DDRJake
Regarding truces: Do they matter when renting out Condottieri?

Dont see why they would. Condottieri isnt your country going to war. Its just some random doodz that HAPPEN to have had their halberds bought by your treasury

Regarding access: So let's say I'm Burgundy, I've rented an army to England to fight France. France now has access to my lands but can they ignore my forts? If my Condottieris retreat behind my own forts, can France just pass through and crush/stackwipe my Condottieris? If they can't pass, can they siege down my forts?

I would assume its treated exactly the same way as having military access. They ignore forts, and can just walk in to fight your army, but they cant siege forts.

Also would like to see answers to the questions posted by other people:
- Who pays for the manpower and reinforcement costs
- What's the impact on opinion/trust if my allies end up fighting my Condottieris?

You pay for your troops. I'd assume this is why their cost can be 5x the regular maintenance cost.

 

[aclover]

Am I the only one thinking that this will just result in having to fight 5 other unrelated OPM's wherever attack a country besides their allies? That wouldn't be a very good feature.

 

[fatedkoga]

Will you receive war exhaustion for Condottieri activity?
Can you request Condottieri?
Those that think that this will cause proxy war have to realize that they have to pay for them so unless its pvp I doubt France will rent its armies for free.

 

[DDRJake]

Also, how will the AI react to this? First, what if you're not actually contributing with the troops? Can I sell someone a massive army for which I make loads of money then never send them to help? Second, how often will the AI use it? Will every single war end up as a proxy war as it will in MP with hundreds of thousands of troops each side?

Firstly, if you rent out your armies and do nothing with them during your 18 month contract, the AI will end the contract and you will find it harder to find nations who will accept your condottieri services in the future.

Secondly, we have tried various levels of AI participation with Condottieri. Militaristic rulers bordering warring nations will be ones who are going to rent out some of their armies as condottieri, although playing on Hard difficulty will result in a lot more AI nations joining in with Condottieri.

Question out of curiosity:

Say Switzerland is at war with Milan. I as France loan 1 army to Switzerland and 1 army to Milan, will french condottieri end up fighting french condottieri?

Also: out of whose manpower are losses replenished?

If you have sent Condottieri to one nation, you cannot then send Condottieri to their war enemies. You can, however, withdraw your troops after the 18 months is up and offer them to the other side, becoming the Lord of War

Manpower is taken from the home nation of the Condottieri.

Is this feature available to everyone, or only Europeans?

So long as you have Mare Nostrum DLC active, any non-subject nation can offer Condottieri

And you can also "fire and forget" by attaching your units to your new employers' army

So it seems that generals are hired as well, can rulers and/or heirs be "hired" in a similar fashion?

Edit:
"Hey I'll even pay you to hire my retarded heir, remember to put him in the frontline!"

There are many methods to lure Enrique to his demise, but Condottieri are not one of them.

• Does this give penalty bonus to relations with whome the buyyer is war with? You know we are helping them with manpower, without declaring war.
• Can we rent ships?
• Also can we rent out mercenaries?
• Can we Send our Ruler & Heir General and send him?
• Can It be done with rival countries?
• Say, If our ally is rival with another country. Can we rent our armies to that other rivaled country?
• Does this increasing the inflation?
• Does It brings some events? Maybe Oppinion bonus for fighting together?

No, no, yes, no, yes (but AI will not accept), yes, no, not currently

* Do you gain WE while you're renting your armies out? Do you still lose 0.1 WE/month for being at peace?

Yes. It is still the children of your nation out there bleeding and dying for your their coin. You will, for all intents still be considered at peace though, and enjoy the -0.1 WE

What's keeping you from hiding the army you rent out on the other side world while raking in the cash?

AI will end the contract and you will have a malus towards rending out in the future.

Can I do this with the Religious League war, send my troops to one of the countries involved without joining myself?
Can you send Condottieri to a subject (vassal/PU/colony) nation?
If you can, do Condottieri count towards the Liberty Desire of the subject nation?
Are there any restrictions on who can do it or who you can do it with, ie Christians fighting for Muslims etc?

Yes, you can get involved via Condottieri in the Religious War like any other
Subjects may not receive or rent out Condottieri
Any non-subject nation can receive your Condottieri, so long as the price is right.

What's this, DDRJake is also writing the dev diaries now?
Someone at Paradox needs to step up and form a coalition(or defensive pact) against him before he becomes the CEO!

It is too late

It was always too late.

How ironic it must feel for DDRJake, that people suggest lots of exploits he (or other QA people) may not have found.

The novelty is palatable.

 

[Renen]

Will you receive war exhaustion for Condottieri activity?

I'd assume that since you arent at war, you wont gain any WE. (Im pretty sure you only gain WE when at war)

Edit: Jake proved my guess wrong

The biggest concern that I seen raised and would love to see addressed is this:
Whats to prevent AI from hiring a craptonn of condots every time you attack them? We all know how AI will spend money to stop you from taking your 1 core back, even if they bankrupt themselves in the process.

 

[kviiri]

I think it'd be a lot better if the buying country actually got control of the condottieri. The current system sounds like it can be abused for little penalty by nations who don't really care about their condottieri rep.

 

[Golwar]

Interesting mechanic, but imho it would require some balancing. Some I could imagine

* Reduced morale
* Increased impact on war exhaustion
* Lending troops should result in a cb not only for the oppostion, but also for parties that send a warning etc.

If you participate in a war, it shouldn't be made too rewarding and risk free.

 

[RadRussian]

What keeps me from renting an army, suicide sieging a fort and immediately declare war on them (there's no truce with recipient nation according to the description)?

 

[FieldMedic]

This looks interesting but it'll make wars more unpredictable when the country you thought you had on the ropes suddenly orders up a huge Condottieri army.

 

[TheDungen]

Subjects may not receive or rent out Condottieri

About that Jake, you should change that to vassals and lesser partners in personal unions instead. So that colonial nations and dayimos can use the condoterri.

 

[Jamey]

Interesting feature. I think it sounds fun for me to do while I'm at peace. I hope the AI doesn't get condottieri happy and send troops to every war.

 

[samin]

If you have sent Condottieri to one nation, you cannot then send Condottieri to their war enemies. You can, however, withdraw your troops after the 18 months is up and offer them to the other side, becoming the Lord of War

What if two nations I sent Condottieri to while they were at peace with each other (but each in another war) later declare war on each other? Basically: will Condottieri only be hostile to nations the recipient was at war with when I sent them or do they "join" any subsequent wars?

I'd assume that since you arent at war, you wont gain any WE. (Im pretty sure you only gain WE when at war)

I assume what he means is that you get the normal WE from attritition/manpower loss. But you don't get any passive WE (call for peace) or lose the -0.1 from peace modifier (so unless you get really badly crushed it can probably mostly counteract WE gain)

 

[Dreadlord]

The terme condottieri is a bit ackward. First, it sounds too Italian. If as Italy you rent your army, the it makes sense. But for other factions?
And second, condottieri were actually mercenaries, not an army renting by a country to another one.

Actually, I don't really see an historical example corresponding to this new game features, that would not be portrayed better as simple mercenaries.

Great feature, poor and somewhat missleading naming. Btw real life and best known example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessian_(soldier)

 

[TheDungen]

Will this stuff make for less blobbing or more?

 

[DDRJake]

This looks interesting but it'll make wars more unpredictable when the country you thought you had on the ropes suddenly orders up a huge Condottieri army.

The AI will not be willing to hire a Condottieri which it does not have the money for or if it is drowning in debt.

In a similar vein, you cannot hire out Condottieri to a nation who is at war with a nation you have a truce with, to prevent you from curb-stomping a nation you have already fought with and to prevent you from being attacked by a nation you just peaced out with.

 

[Emir of Aleppo]

Brilliant idea. This will make all those years waiting for truces to end a lot more interesting to play.

 

[EphemeralJun]

The novelty is palatable.

You and your big vocabulary. I had to look up that word. For those who do not mind learning something new every day, this is what I found:

palatable ‎(comparative more palatable, superlative most palatable)

1. Pleasing to the taste, tasty.
2. Tolerable, acceptable.

Considering Tolerable is the highest rating for everything, you must be really pleased.

Not to go off-topic too much however, one of Wiz's tips for beginners is to not start wars unless you know that you can win them, and 1.15's change that defending war leaders, if AI, will no longer ally someone during that war, helped a good deal with that. Now with condottieri, is it going to be more of a guessing game again how strong your target will be? In particular, I am thinking about the possibility that someone sends condottieri to secondary war participants.