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Stellaris Dev Diary #94 - Ascension Perks & Surveying in Cherryh

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. Today's topic was supposed to be ship balance and doomstacks, but because certain things weren't ready to show off yet, we're instead going to be doing a smaller dev diary talking about some changes coming to Ascension Perks and Surveying. We'll get back to the doomstack topic in a couple weeks.

Ascension Perks
Ascension Perks were added in Utopia as the paid component to the Tradition system to create a set of interesting choices for the player to take as they went through the Tradition tree, choosing between simple but powerful bonuses and more elaborate 'unlocks' such as the ascension paths and Megastructures. However, since then we have noticed that this is a system we keep wanting to build on (for example by adding unique Ascension Perks for Machine Empires as we did in Synthetic Dawn), and found the requirement to depend all of this on Utopia too limiting. For this reason, in the Cherryh update, we are going to make the basic Ascension Perks such as Mastery of Nature, Defender of the Galaxy and so on free for everyone. Biological/Psionic/Synthetic Ascension Paths and Megastructure Ascension Perks (including Habitats) will still require Utopia and Machine Empire Ascension Perks will naturally still require Synthetic Dawn (but not Utopia). The core system itself however, will become part of the base game, so everyone will be able to get at least the basic set of Ascension Perks even if they don't own a single piece of DLC.

Surveying & Communications Trading
The way surveying, anomaly generation and star chart trading works has never really worked very well. For one, it's very unclear to players that for example, you cannot discover anomalies in other empires' space, or that star chart trading can actually be a bad idea since it can in some cases stop you from finding anomalies in those systems. For this reason, we've decided to make some changes to the way surveying works. In Cherryh, any system inside the borders of an empire you have communications with will automatically be considered surveyed, without any need to send a science ship into it and waste a bunch of time scanning planets that have no chance of yielding anomalies aynway. There are some exceptions to this, such as Fallen Empires, whose space will need to be surveyed manually and can in fact yield anomalies.

As part of this we have decided to remove Star Chart trading as well as the ability to buy Star Charts from Curators, and instead replace this with the option to trade Communications with another empire - acquiring Communications from an empire in a trade deal will automatically put you in comms with any empires they have comms with that you do not. This should mean that there are no longer any 'traps' in surveying, while also requiring the need to explore every little nook of the galaxy even when that nook is held by your ally since a hundred years back.
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Terra Incognita Changes
Finally, I just wanted to mentioned that we have done some changes to Terra Incognita to make it more clear and make it work properly with bypasses (Wormholes and Gateways). Instead of Terra Incognita being based on which physical pixels on the map your ships have 'seen', it is now based on which systems are considered visited. Visited either means that you have been to the system with a ship, or that the system is inside the borders of an empire that you have communications with. As such, Terra Incognita no longer needs to be manually lifted on empires you have met in order to not make them appear grey and washed out on the map, also making it easier to see important galactic features such as nebulas.
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That's all for today! I know it was a short one, but don't worry, we still have a long way to go and plenty of major things to talk about for Cherryh. However, next week we're actually going to be talking about something that's§ unrelated to Cherryh, but exciting nonetheless. I'm not allowed to spoil what just yet, but stay tuned!
 
Hmm, not sure I like everything here.

I would consider it "part of the fun" to gradually uncover isolationist empires' space with my ships and sensors. Especially in light that we're moving to hyperlane-only games, immediately knowing the network connecting a potential enemy's planets will obviously have a significant effect on the planning of military actions. No longer is there a need to manually reconnoiter their systems with daring scouts to discover the best path for your fleets.

Considering that the Cherryh update is going to require ships to actually cross a system to enter another line, this would have otherwise presented an excellent way to block enemy intelligence. When everyone starts with full knowledge of their enemy's territory, that aspect of warfare will be gone entirely. Not immediately seeing your fleet is about to enter a huge nebula and thus potentially running into a trap would, in my eyes, have been a feature, not an issue. :(. ...

Pretty much this!

In another thread, I suggested that hyper-lanes would have to be discovered while exploring (and not being known right from the start). Knowing the terrain was always key in military history! In the mentioned thread I was told, that Wiz will at least try this game mechanic out. The DD sounds, as if the feature won't make it into the game, which is a shame imo.

The described implementton not only makes ship-based milirary recon unlikely, but also takes away a useful feature of a potential future introduction of spies.
 
No, it's not that we don't ever go back and update paid features, it's just a matter of dependency issues.
I see. Once again, thanks for unlocking the basic Ascension Perks for everyone !
Can't wait to see the rest of the upcoming content !
 
No, it does not. What it does is make it so you don't have to survey systems where you can't get anomalies anyway.

Well, it kinda does. In Stellaris as it is, if I defeat an empire and explore the systems I have just conquered, I can get anomalies from them. This would not be the case if I have survey details from having been in communication with them.
 
Good decision. Avoids the issues that CK2 has with the retinues.



So instead of "Never trade Star Charts" it is now "Never trade Communications"?

There is no advantage to not trading comms in regards to surveying. You can't generate anomalies in other empires' space even if you haven't met them (because, again, this could result in deposits in your space wildly changing without you being able to control it).
 
How much of those Ascension Perk will change?
 
I know its taboo to ask when this awesome update is coming out. I only wish it could come out by Christmas. Many people have that time off and what better time spent than playing this update. Oh well, I can only hope.

Nice try. I am afraid , march is more likly :/
 
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However, next week we're actually going to be talking about something that's§ unrelated to Cherryh, but exciting nonetheless. I'm not allowed to spoil what just yet, but stay tuned!
Blorg dakimakura finally entering production??? Please let it be true!
 
Planetary Survey Corps will likely need tweaking, that's something we'll look at during the balance/polish phase of the update.
Just please don't let the tweak be buffing the bonus back to 33% or whatever of current research because that doesn't address the issue of significantly reduced survey opportunities.
 
Can you confirm exactly how communications and active sensor link will differ?

Should be pretty obvious, no? Communications just means you see the static resources in other empires, active sensor links mean you see real-time data. As each owned system now needs a level zero star base, that should mean active vision in every system (unless level zero star bases don't have sensors, but that'd be a bit weird).
 
now i'm a bit confused.
what will happen if I refuse to trade communication? because I see no benefits it in right now. only drawbacks
 
There is no advantage to not trading comms in regards to surveying. You can't generate anomalies in other empires' space even if you haven't met them (because, again, this could result in deposits in your space wildly changing without you being able to control it).

Well, I always only survey those planets after I conquered them. And then I can get the anomalies.
 
now i'm a bit confused.
what will happen if I refuse to trade communication? because I see no benefits it in right now. only drawbacks

I would guess that you would see unexplored space until you flew over and saw them.

As soon as you contact another empire by whatever means you get the survey knowledge of their space.
 
For this reason, in the Cherryh update, we are going to make the basic Ascension Perks such as Mastery of Nature, Defender of the Galaxy and so on free for everyone. Biological/Psionic/Synthetic Ascension Paths and Megastructure Ascension Perks (including Habitats) will still require Utopia and Machine Empire Ascension Perks will naturally still require Synthetic Dawn (but not Utopia).

Great idea! (I have both Utopia and Synthetic Dawn, so it won't affect me directly). But how will you be able to get Ascension perks without Utopia? Aren't traditions paywalled?

Also, please talk to the EU4 team and ask them to do the same with the "Estates" system. It had so much great potential and it is now reduced to a dead-end feature.
 
btw...you can also change anomaly generation from "on survey" to "on enter". with just checking if the system in unowned by other empires.
that'll fix the problem with no anomalies if you trade too much
 
I would guess that you would see unexplored space until you flew over and saw them.
interesting.
then maybe it's the same as "alpha aliens" right now. cuz there are almost no benefits in researching them, because you'll loose ability to attack them at will and do whatever you want..and gain a stupid diplomacy (they'll bug you with requests)

also I have concerns about trading communications as an "unliked empire"(assimilators, repugnant, xenophobes with xenophiles and etc)
ai usually don't happy to trade if he is unfriendly
 
I guess now if you conquer plantes unexplored by your Empire you can explore them and get some more anomalies. Am I wrong?
The interesting thing is that the dev diary makes it sound as if you will end up with those planets being explored even before your enemy had a chance to survey them.

You must be in comms with another empire to declare war, which means all their worlds already count as surveyed.

With the end result apparently being that some planets will end up as "surveyed" for everyone even though nobody has actually ever set foot on them.

now i'm a bit confused.
what will happen if I refuse to trade communication? because I see no benefits it in right now. only drawbacks
The only drawback is if you refuse to trade Communications, because you cannot control who you are in communications (note the lack of capitalization) with.

Say you're in diplomatic contact with neighboring empire B. This means they will see all your systems as surveyed. And if they have a Communication treaty with empire C further away, empire C will also have access to this information. However, since you have not entered into a Communication treaty with empire B, you will not gain information on empire C.

Meaning, refusing to enter Communication treaties means you'll see strategic information flowing out of your empire without getting anything in return.

And yeah, I too think this is rather meh.
 
There is no advantage to not trading comms in regards to surveying. You can't generate anomalies in other empires' space even if you haven't met them (because, again, this could result in deposits in your space wildly changing without you being able to control it).
If this is true currently, then there is still a problem because while you may not be able to generate new anomalies, that does not mean that the AI has not already spawned them and just never completed the project.

I'm not sure how it works, but I've had instances where I had full intel of systems controlled by an AI and could not survey them. But, once the AI fell, those systems went dark and when I surveyed them I found a bunch of anomalies it never got around to.
 
interesting.
then maybe it's the same as "alpha aliens" right now. cuz there are almost no benefits in researching them, because you'll loose ability to attack them at will and do whatever you want..and gain a stupid diplomacy (they'll bug you with requests)

also I have concerns about trading communications as an "unliked empire"(assimilators, repugnant, xenophobes with xenophiles and etc)
ai usually don't happy to trade if he is unfriendly

I would assume it would basically be like it is currently. With aggro empires preferring fewer contacts. While, more peaceful races seek as many friends as possible.
 
I dont get why trading communications gives Intel to the other players on exactly how large your empire is. Does not make sense, I don't want to give out that info easily.

What's worse is somebody else can trade communications to me to some other empire without my permission.