• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #93: War, Peace and Claims

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. Today we're going to continue talking about major changes coming in the Cherryh update, specifically on the topic of war and peace. As said before, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have.


Wargoal Overhaul
The wargoal system in Stellaris has always felt a bit odd, and has been the target of some very well-reasoned criticism from players. In one way, the system is extremely unrestrictive, allowing you to declare war on anyone for any reason to take any planet, no matter if said planet is on the literal other side of the galaxy in the middle of enemy territory and could not feasibly be held by your empire, and then demand that planet in the peace even if none of your soldiers had ever set foot on it. On the other hand, the restriction to only being able to take planets meant that you had a fairly limited control over your actual borders after the peace, and might be forced to take planets you had no interest in just to get that system with a resource or colonizable planet that you *actually* wanted. Other issues include a rather messy wargoal interface (particularly when trying to set goals after being declared on) and a lack of ability as an ally in a war to affect what gains you were going to get in the peace, and that wars were very 'all or nothing' affairs with no real mechanics for any other outcome than total victory for one side.

With the change to borders discussed in Dev Diary #91, system control is now separated from planets, and so allows for systems to be conquered and traded even if they do not contain a colonizable planet. This, in addition to all the previously mentioned issues, means that we need a new wargoal system that can handle both limited wars fought over a few border systems, and massive wars that result in dozens of systems changing hands. The way we have decided to solve this is to completely rework wargoals, peace negotiations and to add the concept of claims.

Claims
Claims are effectively territorial ambitions - an empire claiming territory they do not currently control, for whatever justification they can come up with. Which systems can be claimed depends on an empire's war philosophy policy, with the unrestricted warfare philosophy allowing for the claiming of any system not owned by a fellow Federation member. Claims, however, are not free. Much like territorial expansion through building outposts, they require expenditude of Influence, to represent the political effort (or mind/processing power in the case of Gestalt Consciousnesses) required to claim and integrate the territory. How expensive a system is to claim depends on distance to your borders, how built up the system is (a remote mining system will be much cheaper than the homeworlds) and other factors such as traditions and technology. Overall, claims will be more expensive in the early game, and become less so later on to allow for more decisive wars to be fought in the mid- and lategame. Claims are managed through the claims interface, accessible from the topbar. From the claims interface, you can easily make and revoke claims (please note that the interface is currently a rough WIP, thus the weird-looking green arrows, among other unfinished bits of art). It is possible to claim the same system multiple times to gain a stronger claim on it, which is mainly useful when going to war together with an ally that is claiming the same system (more on this later in the DD). Finally on the topic of claims, as mentioned in Dev Diary #91, influence gain is going to be majorly rebalanced to reflect its new uses in expansion, and some things which previously cost influence may now use other currencies.
2017_11_09_1.png


Casus Belli and Wargoals
To go to war with another empire in the Cherryh update, you now need a Casus Belli - a reason for war. The simplest Casus Belli to get is the Claim Casus Belli, gained by creating a claim on another empire. Each Casus Belli grants access to at least one type of Wargoal, with some Casus Belli (like Subjugation) potentially allowing for several different Wargoals to choose between. When declaring war on another empire, rather than put together a list of Wargoals, you choose just one Wargoal allowed by one of your Casus Belli, and the defender similarly chooses one after being declared on, with the Humiliate wargoal always available to defenders regardless of Casus Belli. However, the Wargoal is always in addition to rather than instead of claims the two war sides have on each other. What this means is that the Wargoal is the overall purpose of the war (for example, to humiliate a rival) and any claims you have on the target and their allies is your territorial ambitions in the war (for example, a string of border systems). Some Empires (such as Fanatical Purifiers, Devouring Swarms and Determined Exterminators) have special Casus Belli that usually allow them to conquer their neighbors at will (exceptions being empires they don't hate, such as other Machine Empires for Exterminators), ignoring claims altogether, but are vulnerable to be similarly conquered by others who see them as a threat to the entire galaxy.
2017_11_09_2.png


War Exhaustion and Peace Negotiations
As wars can now be anything from a small border skirmish to a massive war of conquest (depending on the wargoal and number of claims), we felt that the Warscore system so common to our other games was inadequate for dealing with this variety, and tended to turn every conflict into a total war with one undisputed winner and another, utterly crushed loser. As such, Warscore is gone in the Cherryh update. Instead, we have introduced the concept of War Exhaustion. War Exhaustion goes from 0-100%, and measures the total weariness and attrition suffered by all empires on one side in a war (psychological and logistical). War Exhaustion goes up from having Planets and Starbases occupied by the enemy, suffering losses during Space and Ground Combat, and passive accumulation over time (called Attrition). When a war side's War Exhaustion hits 100%, they can be forced into a Status Quo peace (more on this below). The speed at which War Exhaustion accumulates is influenced by factors such as ethics, traditions, technology and the amount of claims being pressed - an empire that is fighting to hold onto a handful of border systems will tire of a costly conflict quicker than one whose very independence is being threatened.

There are three ways a war can end in the Cherryh update: With the surrender of either side, or with a negotiated Status Quo peace. When an empire Surrenders, it is usually either because they have been completely defeated, or because the war aims are limited enough that they view it as more costly to continue the war than to end it.

Surrender means that the victor's Wargoal (for example, to humiliate or vassalize the loser) is enforced, and any claims the winning side has on the losing side are automatically ceded regardless of occupation status. Surrender can only be forced on an enemy that is entirely or nearly entirely defeated - an empire can never be forced to cede territory that the enemy is not able to take control of with their military.
Status Quo means that the war has reached a point where total victory is unlikely for either side, and both sides agree to stop hostilities and settle for whatever gains or losses they have suffered. Under a Status Quo peace, all occupied systems claimed by an enemy empire is ceded to the enemy with the strongest claim. This is where multiple claims on the same system comes in - if you and an ally are both claiming the same enemy system, you can continue to invest influence into 'trumping' their claim so that you are the one given the system rather than your ally. In the case of a tie, whoever has the oldest claim on the system is considered the stronger claimant. As mentioned above, a war side that is at 100% War Exhaustion can not reject a Status Quo peace.

Status Quo being not a white peace but a "Uti possidetis" style peace where claimed and occupied (or in some special cases like the aforementioned Purifier Wargoal, just occupied) territory is kept is meant to be able to create more varied and interesting outcomes to wars, such as a war of conquest where the attacker started with the ambition to conquer an entire enemy empire, and easily took over the lightly defended border systems, but found themselves unable to make headway against the more heavily defended enemy core systems, eventually settling for only what they were able to control. Along with the way surrender works, it also means that empires are never forced to cede systems that they are able to militarily defend - no matter how much the enemy is overrunning your outposts, if your fleets and starforts can keep them away from your homeworld, you can't be forced to hand it over in the peace. It also makes it possible for an empire that is losing a war to still fight to minimize their territorial losses by fighting to inflict War Exhaustion on the enemy, making them pay for every system they take until they can be forced to make peace. Furthermore, it means that wars can end in a way that isn't one-sided, with gains and losses on both sides.
2017_11_09_4.png


It is currently not possible to make claims on an enemy when you are the aggressor in a war against them. Defenders are able to make claims as normal. This is subject to testing, balancing and tweaking and may change (more on that below).

Starbase and System Occupation
Finally, I wanted to write a short bit on how occupying systems actually works now. There will be more details on this (especially about ground combat) in later dev diaries, but the gist it is that a system is considered occupied only if the Starbase and all planets (excluding potentially neutral ones like primitives) are under enemy control. For a Starbase to be taken control of, it must first be disabled (brought to 0 hp) by the enemy fleet. Taking control of an enemy system will also take control of all mining and research stations in that system and allow the occupied to benefit from them economically for as long as the war continues. Similarly, Starbases that are taken control of are also able to be used by the controller - controlled enemy shipyards can be used to refit, repair and build your own fleets, and enemy fortresses to keep them from retaking occupied systems. All of this means that 'raiding' and striking at vital enemy systems becomes an important aspect of warfare, allowing you to turn the enemy's own economic, military and logistical assets against them if they do not do a good enough job defending them.
2017_11_09_3.png


Other Thoughts
We are still heavily testing and tweaking these new systems, and we have some other things we are thinking about and trying out to see how they work. They include:
- The ability to claim unsettled systems as a way to put 'dibs' on a system before actually going there to build an outpost
- Having claims be cheaper if you don't have a ton of them, to encourage smaller scale conflicts
- Potentially allowing claims to be made by attackers (rather than just defenders) during war, but have them be more expensive
- Ways to slow and reduce War Exhaustion at the expense of your economy and population

That's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about war, on the topic of space battles, command limits and doomstacks. See you then!
 
Last edited:

kviiri

Field Marshal
37 Badges
Jun 22, 2015
3.345
8.253
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Will the change to system control be accompanied by more powerful mining/research deposits? I think they sort of stop being interesting later in the game and you could perhaps rectify it.
 

Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
41 Badges
Nov 15, 2007
12.476
136.040
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
So Universe Universalis?

Almost everything about the new war system works entirely differently than it does in Europa Universalis. Casus Belli, Wargoals, Warscore, Peace Negotiations... honestly the system is closer to CK2 than it is to EU4, and does some things (like non one sided peaces) that we haven't done before at all.
 

Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
41 Badges
Nov 15, 2007
12.476
136.040
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Will the change to system control be accompanied by more powerful mining/research deposits? I think they sort of stop being interesting later in the game and you could perhaps rectify it.

It's something we're discussing. We don't want to make planets redundant though, they're already losing some of their importance in not generating borders anymore.
 

Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
41 Badges
Nov 15, 2007
12.476
136.040
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
i want to establish a neutral zone between me and the romu.. err other race

This would actually be possible with the new border system, and something I'd like to do at some point. It could simply work by having two empires agree not to take systems next to each other, and have a CB to force out any other empire that tries to take those systems. It would be a good way to have stable borders with Xenophobic Isolationists and the like.
 

Alblaka

Foresightful Flag-Choser
101 Badges
Apr 12, 2013
4.015
1.658
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
Coming back from dinner, I figured 'Hey, lets check whether the new dev diary is up already.' 'posted 1 min ago'

Overall, this sounds like a significant improvement (well, duh, it would have been hard to make the current war system worse) with a nice new twist on warscore/claims. I'm looking forward to see how it plays out, however

allowing you to turn the enemy's own economic, military and logistical assets against them if they do not do a good enough job defending them.

I'm slightly worried that this will make wars against the AI a lot less challenging. Because, judging from the average capacity of the AI to act strategically in most PDX games, it will likely suffer from not doing afromentioned good job. I mean, this is just a worry, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but so far the AI has always been one of the weakpoints in any of the GS titles (which isn't very surprising, as complex games are abhorrently hard for an algorythm to 'play properly').

This would actually be possible with the new border system, and something I'd like to do at some point. It could simply work by having two empires agree not to take systems next to each other, and have a CB to force out any other empire that tries to take those systems. It would be a good way to have stable borders with Xenophobic Isolationists and the like.

Something like a special treaty interaction when 2 empires do not have a common border, but both have claims at a system bordering their borders? Maybe a new feature where you simply cannot build staroutposts in a system with foreign claims (unless your claim is X levels higher?)?
 

Zergor

Major
17 Badges
Jun 12, 2017
580
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Magicka
Wow, this seems great.

Except for one thing... I don't like that there isn't a white peace option where everyone takes back what he had previously.
If the army avoid each other and just take systems in the other camp status quo may lead to strange things.
Sometimes it's not that armies can't fight anymore, it's just that there is not progress and bigger fish to take care of.

There is a reason you decided to remove entirely white peace ?
 

Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
41 Badges
Nov 15, 2007
12.476
136.040
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
So I am still not understanding about taking over a fortress, I thought it was impossible to do that by conventional means

You can't destroy fortresses with conventional means. You can disable and then take control of them, however.
 

UberWaffe

Second Lieutenant
24 Badges
May 23, 2016
185
73
  • Magicka
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
Pretty awesome stuff!

Broadly speaking, how mod-able will this new system be? (I assume like most things it will be exposed as game files.)
Would it be easy-ish to add a new type of wargoal, and the conditions under which it can be achieved.

Silly, example: Say I want to make a wargoal that splits the defeated empire into multiple smaller empires that hate each other. Would that be possible?

On the occupation side of things: Could I write an event that kidnaps (forcefully relocates) pops from occupied systems to my own planets for devourin... err, 'festivities'?
 

Birnenpappe

Sergeant
60 Badges
May 3, 2014
59
98
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Will there be something akin to the EU4 'Length of War' modifier for AI Empires? This always felt cheesy, because you could make them give up without actually 'winning', just by being stubborn enough.

I am thinking especially about the case, where you can't crack their last and final Fortress World, but have occupied all the rest, will the AI be more willing to 'Surrender' if you wait long enough?
 

Lexgrad

First Lieutenant
52 Badges
Apr 28, 2012
282
193
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Hey wiz. It didn't seem clear to me, is war exhaustion empire wide or alliance wide?

Also will there be an intervention cb so you could protect a non allied people from a larger foe
 

Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
41 Badges
Nov 15, 2007
12.476
136.040
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Wow, this seems great.

Except for one thing... I don't like that there isn't a white peace option where everyone takes back what he had previously.
If the army avoid each other and just take systems in the other camp status quo may lead to strange things.
Sometimes it's not that armies can't fight anymore, it's just that there is not progress and bigger fish to take care of.

There is a reason you decided to remove entirely white peace ?

What would be the use of such a white peace? If you're not making progress, you can settle for just what you have taken already.
 

Mojo1987

Second Lieutenant
70 Badges
Aug 14, 2009
181
25
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
I really hope you implement some cool statistics about war casualties and used resources and so on about onging wars in this overhaul. Probably even adding a list with ongoing wars in the galaxy itself (if you know at least 1 participant).
 

Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
41 Badges
Nov 15, 2007
12.476
136.040
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Will there be something akin to the EU4 'Length of War' modifier for AI Empires? This always felt cheesy, because you could make them give up without actually 'winning', just by being stubborn enough.

I am thinking especially about the case, where you can't crack their last and final Fortress World, but have occupied all the rest, will the AI be more willing to 'Surrender' if you peace out?

Length of War is not relevant anymore. Its function is handled by War Exhaustion.
 

Calvax

Lt. General
47 Badges
Jan 23, 2017
1.611
4.444
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
Sounds much better than the current system. It's always felt clunky that you couldn't call a war quits but keep what you had. One question though; if two or more allies win a war are the influence cost of claims the same or calculated separately? I'd hate to have a border gore situation where my ally from halfway across the galaxy can nab a rich system right next to my borders.