Stellaris Dev Diary #94 - Ascension Perks & Surveying in Cherryh

[Madzai]

Do those system become un-surveyed when you cede those systems? So that you can survey them and reap the benefits?

The most important question of the whole DD.

 

[dragoon9105]

Yes, its Event driven. Making it an Ascension perk would remove its rareness and uniqueness. You could basically take it every game and the ending would be spoilered as all Ascension perks have to have a description of their effects.

The ascension perk can always unlock and 'appear' when/if the horizon signal is encountered, and the descriptions don't need to spoil the event chain, the projects and event effects we have currently certainly don't.

 

[Seelensturm]

I probably don't understand but the anomalies are one of the most fun aspects of the game and doesn't this drastically reduce the amount of systems I can survey and get anomalies ?

No, it does not. What it does is make it so you don't have to survey systems where you can't get anomalies anyway.

That's not how it currently works. If you wait with surveying other empires' systems until they become part of your own empire (or neutral), you actually have a chance to get anomalies there (however smaller than in systems which were never surveyed by anyone, because each celestial body can generate only a single anomaly).

 

[hadaev]

Will we get modable diplo options?

 

[ExNihil]

Two requests/suggestions:

1. Make debris analysis relative to leader traits/levels.

2. Add star charts as an option that spawns a limited number of additional planets in the galaxy.

 

[Princess Stabbity]

Planetary Survey Corps will likely need tweaking, that's something we'll look at during the balance/polish phase of the update.

Oh thank you! I was a bit worried about that. It's my number 1 reason for never accepting star charts. Losing the opportunity to get extra science from surveys (after I specifically picked a tradition for that purpose) just feels so bad.

Actually, speaking of, I remember that during the first Design Corner stream you were thinking about ways to introduce a "second phase of exploration" in the midgame and beyond. Is this still in the cards? ^^ Personally I'd love to see large pockets of neutral space guarded by even tougher monsters, maybe even new systems getting added to the map as time goes on?

Even now, a big branch of the Discovery tree is in this weird place where if you don't pick those traditions super early, you may never get any use out of them. With these changes to comms, the "expiration date" may end up being even stricter. Unless exploration is extended and more evenly distributed throughout later phases of the game.

 

[mathers]

For this reason, in the Cherryh update, we are going to make the basic Ascension Perks such as Mastery of Nature, Defender of the Galaxy and so on free for everyone. Biological/Psionic/Synthetic Ascension Paths and Megastructure Ascension Perks (including Habitats) will still require Utopia and Machine Empire Ascension Perks will naturally still require Synthetic Dawn (but not Utopia). The core system itself however, will become part of the base game, so everyone will be able to get at least the basic set of Ascension Perks even if they don't own a single piece of DLC.

Do we get any compensation? One feature, the megastructure got nerfed, the other the ascencion removed. The diff is not intresting, since mods are being used anyhow... So what did I pay for with Utopia?

 

[Spidee]

No, it's not that we don't ever go back and update paid features, it's just a matter of dependency issues.

So no more, don't survey this system, conquer, survey after conquer strategy?

 

[Jazzbanana]

Mr. Wiz, I'd like to ask you if non diplomacy-based empires, like exterminators or devouring swarm still have to respect truces. It surely balances gameplay but in terms of roleplay, the swarm just keeps coming in waves until all it's eaten. Doesn't make much sense to patiently wait ten years to get another handful of planets.

 

[78region]

Is that possible to add an opportunity to go for loot/slave raids without declaring war?

 

[Angelic_Daemon]

Who knows... Paradox do produce most of their stuff but still get assistance from other companies on translation into Spanish, German, French etc. Event pictures in CK2 remember reading once had been done by a modder. Maybe Even music and sounds may be done externally.

They were teasing something on Twitter yesterday, had some stations setup in London for what appears to be a Stellaris LAN.

 

[HenkieDePost]

I think it might be another 'story' pack like Horizon Signal, based on the notion that it is unrelated to Cherryh and cannot be talked about yet. Would be really nice if that was the case.

 

[Kreliann]

Wiz, wouldn't the communications trading mean that after contacting a couple other empires in the early game, you and the AI will end up entablishing comunitacions with the whole galaxy after a few turns? I mean, like a cascading effect. Empire A gives me contact to empire B, B to C, and so on.

 

[mrennigma]

Apologies if this has already been addressed but based on the proposed surveying change, will you be adjusting the Discovery perk that gives a scientific boost for surveying? While ally territories might not reveal additional anomalies, exploring them was still useful if you had that perk I'm assuming?

 

[nathelbiya]

Ascension Perks
Ascension Perks were added in Utopia as the paid component to the Tradition system to create a set of interesting choices for the player to take as they went through the Tradition tree, choosing between simple but powerful bonuses and more elaborate 'unlocks' such as the ascension paths and Megastructures. However, since then we have noticed that this is a system we keep wanting to build on (for example by adding unique Ascension Perks for Machine Empires as we did in Synthetic Dawn), and found the requirement to depend all of this on Utopia too limiting. For this reason, in the Cherryh update, we are going to make the basic Ascension Perks such as Mastery of Nature, Defender of the Galaxy and so on free for everyone. Biological/Psionic/Synthetic Ascension Paths and Megastructure Ascension Perks (including Habitats) will still require Utopia and Machine Empire Ascension Perks will naturally still require Synthetic Dawn (but not Utopia). The core system itself however, will become part of the base game, so everyone will be able to get at least the basic set of Ascension Perks even if they don't own a single piece of DLC.

Good decision. Avoids the issues that CK2 has with the retinues.

Surveying & Communications Trading
The way surveying, anomaly generation and star chart trading works has never really worked very well. For one, it's very unclear to players that for example, you cannot discover anomalies in other empires' space, or that star chart trading can actually be a bad idea since it can in some cases stop you from finding anomalies in those systems. For this reason, we've decided to make some changes to the way surveying works. In Cherryh, any system inside the borders of an empire you have communications with will automatically be considered surveyed, without any need to send a science ship into it and waste a bunch of time scanning planets that have no chance of yielding anomalies aynway. There are some exceptions to this, such as Fallen Empires, whose space will need to be surveyed manually and can in fact yield anomalies.

As part of this we have decided to remove Star Chart trading as well as the ability to buy Star Charts from Curators, and instead replace this with the option to trade Communications with another empire - acquiring Communications from an empire in a trade deal will automatically put you in comms with any empires they have comms with that you do not. This should mean that there are no longer any 'traps' in surveying, while also requiring the need to explore every little nook of the galaxy even when that nook is held by your ally since a hundred years back.

So instead of "Never trade Star Charts" it is now "Never trade Communications"?

 

[krios41]

Ascension Perks
Ascension Perks were added in Utopia as the paid component to the Tradition system to create a set of interesting choices for the player to take as they went through the Tradition tree, choosing between simple but powerful bonuses and more elaborate 'unlocks' such as the ascension paths and Megastructures. However, since then we have noticed that this is a system we keep wanting to build on (for example by adding unique Ascension Perks for Machine Empires as we did in Synthetic Dawn), and found the requirement to depend all of this on Utopia too limiting. For this reason, in the Cherryh update, we are going to make the basic Ascension Perks such as Mastery of Nature, Defender of the Galaxy and so on free for everyone. Biological/Psionic/Synthetic Ascension Paths and Megastructure Ascension Perks (including Habitats) will still require Utopia and Machine Empire Ascension Perks will naturally still require Synthetic Dawn (but not Utopia). The core system itself however, will become part of the base game, so everyone will be able to get at least the basic set of Ascension Perks even if they don't own a single piece of DLC.

this is the only thing i'm a bit miffed at.
But it is not the end of the world i guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Heretic Saint]

Hmm, not sure I like everything here.

I would consider it "part of the fun" to gradually uncover isolationist empires' space with my ships and sensors. Especially in light that we're moving to hyperlane-only games, immediately knowing the network connecting a potential enemy's planets will obviously have a significant effect on the planning of military actions. No longer is there a need to manually reconnoiter their systems with daring scouts to discover the best path for your fleets.

Considering that the Cherryh update is going to require ships to actually cross a system to enter another line, this would have otherwise presented an excellent way to block enemy intelligence. When everyone starts with full knowledge of their enemy's territory, that aspect of warfare will be gone entirely. Not immediately seeing your fleet is about to enter a huge nebula and thus potentially running into a trap would, in my eyes, have been a feature, not an issue.

If this is really just about redundant anomaly scans, could it not have been possible to pursue alternatives such as having the auto-survey option only make science ships in other empires' territory map their systems without scanning planetary bodies? This would also preserve the option to manually scan "grey planets" in the border regions, gambling that an empire may not have had surveyed them yet, or perhaps that your survey teams, equipped with better sensors and led by more experienced scientist, could make a discovery that the others have overlooked!

Please don't take choice out of the players hands, and don't streamline military campaigns too much! I believe the galaxy being vast and some parts of it remaining unsurveyed even in late game adds to the game's representation of space.

So instead of "Never trade Star Charts" it is now "Never trade Communications"?

That's not going to help. You will be in communications with other empires, and if those empires have Communications (note the capitalization), your maps will be distributed across the galaxy.

 

[MrChoke]

I know its taboo to ask when this awesome update is coming out. I only wish it could come out by Christmas. Many people have that time off and what better time spent than playing this update. Oh well, I can only hope.

 

[grandad1982]

Considering the other changes it may seem a bit strange that this change to surveying is the first one I'm not sure I like.

Why would I or another empire (particularly one with inward perfection or devouring swarm etc) tell you what the contents of my systems were straight off the bat? I don't want other empires to automatically know that I have a massive mineral system on x location.

I'd much rather it be a diplomatic choice to share that sensitive info with others.

 

[chopak]

Sounds nice.

Granted, it has been a while since I played Stellaris, but I seem to remember I always felt sad when I reached the point in game where everything was discovered. As the universe is vast beyond imagination, it would be nice if you could think of some mechanics allowing to still discover things in later stages of a game. No?

They are planning to have some sections of galaxy be unreachable in early and mid game. Some of this will be achieved by ancient stargates and natural wormholes.