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Stellaris Dev Diary #85: Decadence and Ascension Path Changes

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is the last dev diary for the 1.8 'Čapek' update, and will be going over the introduction of Awakened Empire Decadence and some changes coming to the three Ascension Paths and Megastructures. Decadence is a free feature in the 1.8 update, while the Ascension Path and Megastructure changes require the Utopia expansion.

Awakened Empire Decadence
Awakened Empires were added to the game as a way of throwing a new challenge at the player in the late-game. They are intended to be formidable foes, and only the absolutely most powerful player empires are meant to be able to take them on alone. However, this could lead to an unintended game state where the Awakened Empire had conquered or subjugated all regular empires and effectively 'won', with the player being stuck as an AE subject until the end of time. In order to address this, we've added a new mechanic called Decadence for Awakened Empires. Decadence is effectively a meter, going from 0 to 100, that starts filling up for Awakened Empires once a certain amount of time has passed since awakening. The larger they are (both in terms of owned planets and subjugated empires), the faster it builds up. Decadence reduces Awakened Empire resource income and fleet power, and also increases the rebelliousness of their subjects, and has very large penalties at high levels of Decadence. What this means it that while an Awakened Empire might start very strong, and grow even stronger as they expand, that very expansion will eventually turn into decline, until they're weakened to the point where the rest of the galaxy can rebel and overthrow them - if you end up their subject, you just have to be patient, build up your forces, and wait for the right moment to take back your freedom. Awakened Empires have also been changed so that they prefer to subjugate other empires (though still taking some planets as well) to conquering them outright, so there should always be a collection of subjects chafing under the precursor yoke and biding their time.
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Ascension Path Changes
One of the most loved features in Utopia is the Ascension Paths - the ability to choose an 'end goal' for your empire and species in the form of Psionic, Synthetic or Biological Ascension. However, the decision to restrict the Psionic and Synthetic paths based on ethics was less popular, and though I think the reasoning for it is sound (making ethics more diverse), this is a case where I think there is a valid case to say that balance should take a step back in favor of letting the player decide the path or their own empire. For this reason, we've lifted the Spiritualist-only restriction on psionics and have opened up for Spiritualists to research robotics and synthetically ascend. We have also removed the Materialist-only restriction on AI Citizen Rights.

To compensate for this loss, Spiritualists have received a buff in the form of stronger Temples, and Materialists have been given a new living standard called 'Academic Privilege' that boosts happiness and research output at the cost of more consumer goods. However, though we've lifted the hard restriction, the impact of the ascension paths on ethics attraction and faction happiness remain. This means that, for example, a Spiritualist empire that decides to Synthetically Ascend will have significant troubles with unhappy factions and materialist ethics drift, and similarly, the pursuit of Psionics will cause increased Spiritualist attraction and the likely creation of a strong Spiritualist faction.

In addition to these more general changes, there's a few more path-specific changes and additions:
Psionic: Buffed traits and Psi Corps building, and added an alert to tell you when the Shroud is ready for use. Additionally, psionically awakening other species in your empire now happens more often.
Synthetic: Added the ability to assimilate new biological pops into synthetic bodies, and the addition of robomodding significantly buffs this path. Synthetic and Cyborg leader traits were nerfed a bit to compensate.
Biological: Increased the total trait points by 1, and reduced the cost of advanced traits such as Robust.
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Megastructure Changes
The headline feature of Utopia was the Megastructures, massive constructions requiring tens of thousands of minerals and decades to construct. A frequent criticism we have received for the Megastructures is that they simply do not feel significant enough, with comments on how the Dyson Sphere should realistically be producing millions of energy, and so on. We've made some changes in 1.8 that we hope will address some of these complaints, though I want to preface this by saying that Megastructures are not and will never be 'realistic', nor is Stellaris meant to be a realistic game in the first place. However, they are meant to feel impressive and special, and when a handful of Habitats with solar power processors can match a Dyson Sphere in output, that impressiveness tends to fade, no matter whether it's actually balanced or not.

For this reason, we have decided to make a change to the Dyson Sphere and Science Nexus. Both of these Megastructures have been majorly buffed, with a finished Dyson Sphere now producing 1000 energy and a fully upgraded Science Nexus outputting a total of ~750 science. However, they have been changed so that each empire can now only build one of each, similar to the Sentry Array. This means that they can be very powerful without having to massively increase the build time or cost to prevent them from simply being spammed. Ringworlds have not been changed, and can be built in any number you want, indirectly buffing the effectiveness of the Circle of Life perk.

Additionally, we've made a tweak to the Master Builders perk. This perk, when taken, will now give you the Mega-Engineering technology if you do not already have it, similar to how World Shaper gives Atmospheric Manipulation and Mastery of Nature gives blocker techs. This allows for reliable access to Mega-Engineering for empires that want to focus on Megastructure construction.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll post the full patch notes for 1.8 and Synthetic Dawn. See you then!
 
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How does one tell what level of decadence an Awakened Empire is on?
 
Looking good! I think the Decadence mechanic, whilst obviously putting gameplay before realism, sounds like an interesting mechanic to generate stories. It actually makes me want to see an AE subjugate everyone, just to watch the eventual galaxywide rebellion and the resulting fallout.

Megastructure changes should also make the individual sites more unique and strategically important.

However, though we've lifted the hard restriction, the impact of the ascension paths on ethics attraction and faction happiness remain. This means that, for example, a Spiritualist empire that decides to Synthetically Ascend will have significant troubles with unhappy factions and materialist ethics drift, and similarly, the pursuit of Psionics will cause increased Spiritualist attraction and the likely creation of a strong Spiritualist faction.
Super-happy to hear this. Can't wait to try new combinations. :)

Question: Do the Happiness and Ethos attraction effects differ between both tiers of Ascension, or is it the same for each level?

For the time being, I'm looking into my future empire taking only the first tier of Psionic Ascension (in fact, I might use a mod to mix two 1st-tier perks, instead of committing to both levels of a single path), and it would be cool if you'd only get slapped with the full penalty once you've actually gone "all the way". Also makes sense in that the second level Ascension represents a cultural escalation of sorts, where it might feel weird if it had zero effect on the populace just because the penalty is already in effect and does not change.
 
Humm so basically awaken Fallen empire are no longer a treat... I can't say i'm happy about that. In another hand i love the fact that every ethos can purchase every ascension.
But have you consider the idea to make two level 1 ascension researchable instead of a level 2? (latent psionic/cyborg for exemple). It would add more customisation to empires and would also prevent the big ethos drift from level 2 ascension (i mean a fanatic materialist empire who discover that they can communicate with mind, that the world is not only material etc would inevitably turn to spiritualist due to huge spiritualist ethos attraction) making ethos attraction more subtle (cyborg who are latent psionist would be attracted to spiritualist but very less than the transcendance level).

Finally i like the fact that bio engineering ascension is going to be buffed a little and i like those unique traits the ascension have. But have you consider to make more of them? I mean more unique traits availible to bio ascension level 2 (more trait like robust, fertile, erudite) it would add more options. In another hand, i still think that nerve stapple and delicious would be availible to base gene modding tech or level 1 bio ascension. After all they are quite oriented to xenophobe empire and why do a xenophobe slaver empire need to research the bio ascension for being ,well, a good xenophobe? Why can't they make better slave without being stuck in the bio ascension path?

AFEs can still ruin your day and your plans, unless you can challenge them early. This just means you won't get stuck. I don't recall whether I ever got stuck with an AFE, after the first time where I was on the losing side of a WIH, but I can see it being super annoying.

I read the other part as them being more likely to extend an offer of becoming subjects, before attacking, though I usually get that offer already. I hope the xenophobes are still likely to gobble up and purge a chunk of your empire before enthralling you, and the spiritualists are still likely to go conquering if you refuse their call. It makes sense the others wouldn't care as much for outright conquest though, except where absolutely necessary.
 
Do you know this/does it already do this in the game and I'm dumb? Or is it just what you think should be the case? Personally I think it should be a megastructure build speed increase because then you can RP a tall empire trying to make more than one Ring World.

I am pretty sure it does it already. Also otherwise the fact that the Voidborne perk (for Habitats) alone already unlocks Master Builders would make no sense.
 
Prefered many weaker Dyson Spheres/Science nexuses to one big. Maybe give them more stages, so building a fully upgraded dyson spehere is twice as effective but takes twice as long time/resources (only difference is that less stars are needed, bu tthe effect the same.)

Yeah, the issue I have with the new model where Galactic Wonders now only gives you unique megastructures is that it doesn't snowball the same way the current unlimited dyson sphere and science nexuses do, so you can't continue "buliding tall" without incurring the same penalties as "building wide." For short games, this is fine, especially with the longer-lasting constraints on energy. For long games where you could reasonably build dozens of megastructures without having functionally won the game already, this is arguably worse than not buffing them, depending on the marginal utility of getting bigger benefits for the same resources vs continued ability to expand your resource collection without hurting your research needed to tech up.
 
I see a problem with the Megastructure changes.

What does the Galactic Wonders perk do after you've built your Dyson Sphere, Science Nexus and Sentry Array?

Nothing, just like Mastery of Nature doesn't offer any effect anymore once you have cleared all your blockers.

So that's not really a problem, given that the benefits for these structures are now quite massive.

Doesn't it also increase build speed of Habitats and Ring World, which you can have unlimited of?

Actually: when you have a Dyson Sphere, Science Nexus and a Sentry Arrary, it is time to start a new game anyway.

Do you know this/does it already do this in the game and I'm dumb? Or is it just what you think should be the case? Personally I think it should be a megastructure build speed increase because then you can RP a tall empire trying to make more than one Ring World.

It already does this, and I'd assume it still will. The 100% build speed applies to all kinds of Megastructures; Habitats and Ringworlds included.

I am pretty sure it does it already. Also otherwise the fact that the Voidborne perk (for Habitats) alone already unlocks Master Builders would make no sense.

Uhhh ... klingonadmiral is asking about the Galactic Wonders perk, not the Master Builders perk. Master Builders gives a permanent increase to construction speed for all megastructures. Galactic Wonders just unlocks the three wonder megastructures that you can now build only one of each. Once you've built them all, Galactic Wonders is of no further benefit.
 
As much as I agree on some things, putting Stellaris in the direct opposition of realism isn't a great idea. While games can't and won't be realistic, that is what most sci-fi genres should strife for, otherwise the reader/player is assaulted by a constant stream of disbelief which they will have to suspend time and again.
 
As much as I agree on some things, putting Stellaris in the direct opposition of realism isn't a great idea. While games can't and won't be realistic, that is what most sci-fi genres should strife for, otherwise the reader/player is assaulted by a constant stream of disbelief which they will have to suspend time and again.

Immersion != realism. Immersion is important, realism is not.
 
Uhhh ... klingonadmiral is asking about the Galactic Wonders perk, not the Master Builders perk. Master Builders gives a permanent increase to construction speed for all megastructures. Galactic Wonders just unlocks the three wonder megastructures that you can now build only one of each. Once you've built them all, Galactic Wonders is of no further benefit.

Oops, I need to learn to read.
But still:
So that's not really a problem, given that the benefits for these structures are now quite massive.
Actually: when you have a Dyson Sphere, Science Nexus and a Sentry Arrary, it is time to start a new game anyway.
 
Yeah, the issue I have with the new model where Galactic Wonders now only gives you unique megastructures is that it doesn't snowball the same way the current unlimited dyson sphere and science nexuses do, so you can't continue "buliding tall" without incurring the same penalties as "building wide." For short games, this is fine, especially with the longer-lasting constraints on energy. For long games where you could reasonably build dozens of megastructures without having functionally won the game already, this is arguably worse than not buffing them, depending on the marginal utility of getting bigger benefits for the same resources vs continued ability to expand your resource collection without hurting your research needed to tech up.

I see a possibility here for tall empires to compete with wide ones.
What if you can build more of the megastructures the longer the game goes on and the lower the number of planets is you have.
Like after 50 years passed you can build a second megastructure of the same type as long as you havn't colonized more than 3 planets, after 100 years a third one if you don't have more than 5 planets and so on.
The passed time and number of planets can be adjusted, its only an example.
This way and with the new massive boost of megastructures you could have even a better economy than a wide player (while still having the disadvantage of slow rebuild of destroyed fleets).
The only thing you have to add is an event that take away your additional megastructures if you excced the limit, like an galactic desaster or a faulty design that cripples them.

Would also make the path more viable in the long run.
 
Is that with or without a sacrificed scientist?
I'd guess with one.
...but why would you do that, you monster?!

[...] For short games, this is fine, especially with the longer-lasting constraints on energy. For long games where you could reasonably build dozens of megastructures without having functionally won the game already, this is arguably worse than not buffing them, depending on the marginal utility of getting bigger benefits for the same resources vs continued ability to expand your resource collection without hurting your research needed to tech up.
Tall benefits *signifcantly* from a reliable Mega Engineering unlock already. With decent tech rolls you can probably start your Ringworld Constructions around year 80 or so.
 
As much as I agree on some things, putting Stellaris in the direct opposition of realism isn't a great idea. While games can't and won't be realistic, that is what most sci-fi genres should strife for, otherwise the reader/player is assaulted by a constant stream of disbelief which they will have to suspend time and again.


In all Fairness, then you would never have Dyson Spheres and Megatsructures in the game as a direct consequence. A Civilization that can harness the energy of a star does not need ships, armies or planets.
 
Additionally, we've made a tweak to the Master Builders perk. This perk, when taken, will now give you the Mega-Engineering technology if you do not already have it, similar to how World Shaper gives Atmospheric Manipulation and Mastery of Nature gives blocker techs. This allows for reliable access to Mega-Engineering for empires that want to focus on Megastructure construction.
YES, finally.
This will make a rush towards Galactic Wonders a reliable and possibly viable (but at the very least not-frustrating) option. And with the buffs to the Nexus and dyson (Dyson givign 1k was about what I imagined to be fitting in first place, whilst an up from 50 to 250 science per category on the Array sounds very intriguing, to say the least. I hope you adjusted the events to not just +5 it for sacrificing one of your likely awesome level 10 leaders?

At this spot, kudos to Wiz and his team for, against their own preferences and visions, listening to the community and changing both MegaStructures and removing the Ascension Path ethic limitations. I know (from actual personal experience), how hard it is to change a piece of entertainment software against your personal preferences, based upon popular demand.

(And know, lets keep demanding allowing Hiveminds and robots to spend a single ethic point for diversification and RP purposes.!)
 
In all Fairness, then you would never have Dyson Spheres and Megatsructures in the game as a direct consequence. A Civilization that can harness the energy of a star does not need ships, armies or planets.

...Or the Galactical Wonders would have to cost millions, billions or trillions of minerals to build, ruining the functionality of the game completely.
 
I know this might be the wrong page but would it not be a good idea to change chemical bliss? for example to not make it completely useless by giving it a buff for unity production. In the 70 ones of the reasons so much literature was created was because of drugs.
 
[...]
At this spot, kudos to Wiz and his team for, against their own preferences and visions, listening to the community and changing both MegaStructures and removing the Ascension Path ethic limitations. I know (from actual personal experience), how hard it is to change a piece of entertainment software against your personal preferences, based upon popular demand.
[...]
Oi, I was the one who suggested this change! Don't you dare take my credit for it and give it to someone else!!
 
Honestly, realism is often as much a matter of framing and presentation as much as mechanics, and how much you prioritise realism is more about what sort of setting you're trying to create than about gameplay.

For example, if you changed the 'tick' to a year instead of a day and the map to be 100ly around Sol rather than a whole galaxy, you suddenly have a 'realistically' sized map, 'realistic' non-FTL travel times and 'realistic' pop growth times. The game is more or less exactly the same, but it doesn't have the same Epic Space Opera feeling they're going for with Stellaris.