Stellaris Dev Diary #85: Decadence and Ascension Path Changes

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Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
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Nov 15, 2007
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Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is the last dev diary for the 1.8 'Čapek' update, and will be going over the introduction of Awakened Empire Decadence and some changes coming to the three Ascension Paths and Megastructures. Decadence is a free feature in the 1.8 update, while the Ascension Path and Megastructure changes require the Utopia expansion.

Awakened Empire Decadence
Awakened Empires were added to the game as a way of throwing a new challenge at the player in the late-game. They are intended to be formidable foes, and only the absolutely most powerful player empires are meant to be able to take them on alone. However, this could lead to an unintended game state where the Awakened Empire had conquered or subjugated all regular empires and effectively 'won', with the player being stuck as an AE subject until the end of time. In order to address this, we've added a new mechanic called Decadence for Awakened Empires. Decadence is effectively a meter, going from 0 to 100, that starts filling up for Awakened Empires once a certain amount of time has passed since awakening. The larger they are (both in terms of owned planets and subjugated empires), the faster it builds up. Decadence reduces Awakened Empire resource income and fleet power, and also increases the rebelliousness of their subjects, and has very large penalties at high levels of Decadence. What this means it that while an Awakened Empire might start very strong, and grow even stronger as they expand, that very expansion will eventually turn into decline, until they're weakened to the point where the rest of the galaxy can rebel and overthrow them - if you end up their subject, you just have to be patient, build up your forces, and wait for the right moment to take back your freedom. Awakened Empires have also been changed so that they prefer to subjugate other empires (though still taking some planets as well) to conquering them outright, so there should always be a collection of subjects chafing under the precursor yoke and biding their time.
2017_09_07_1.png


Ascension Path Changes
One of the most loved features in Utopia is the Ascension Paths - the ability to choose an 'end goal' for your empire and species in the form of Psionic, Synthetic or Biological Ascension. However, the decision to restrict the Psionic and Synthetic paths based on ethics was less popular, and though I think the reasoning for it is sound (making ethics more diverse), this is a case where I think there is a valid case to say that balance should take a step back in favor of letting the player decide the path or their own empire. For this reason, we've lifted the Spiritualist-only restriction on psionics and have opened up for Spiritualists to research robotics and synthetically ascend. We have also removed the Materialist-only restriction on AI Citizen Rights.

To compensate for this loss, Spiritualists have received a buff in the form of stronger Temples, and Materialists have been given a new living standard called 'Academic Privilege' that boosts happiness and research output at the cost of more consumer goods. However, though we've lifted the hard restriction, the impact of the ascension paths on ethics attraction and faction happiness remain. This means that, for example, a Spiritualist empire that decides to Synthetically Ascend will have significant troubles with unhappy factions and materialist ethics drift, and similarly, the pursuit of Psionics will cause increased Spiritualist attraction and the likely creation of a strong Spiritualist faction.

In addition to these more general changes, there's a few more path-specific changes and additions:
Psionic: Buffed traits and Psi Corps building, and added an alert to tell you when the Shroud is ready for use. Additionally, psionically awakening other species in your empire now happens more often.
Synthetic: Added the ability to assimilate new biological pops into synthetic bodies, and the addition of robomodding significantly buffs this path. Synthetic and Cyborg leader traits were nerfed a bit to compensate.
Biological: Increased the total trait points by 1, and reduced the cost of advanced traits such as Robust.
2017_09_07_2.png


Megastructure Changes
The headline feature of Utopia was the Megastructures, massive constructions requiring tens of thousands of minerals and decades to construct. A frequent criticism we have received for the Megastructures is that they simply do not feel significant enough, with comments on how the Dyson Sphere should realistically be producing millions of energy, and so on. We've made some changes in 1.8 that we hope will address some of these complaints, though I want to preface this by saying that Megastructures are not and will never be 'realistic', nor is Stellaris meant to be a realistic game in the first place. However, they are meant to feel impressive and special, and when a handful of Habitats with solar power processors can match a Dyson Sphere in output, that impressiveness tends to fade, no matter whether it's actually balanced or not.

For this reason, we have decided to make a change to the Dyson Sphere and Science Nexus. Both of these Megastructures have been majorly buffed, with a finished Dyson Sphere now producing 1000 energy and a fully upgraded Science Nexus outputting a total of ~750 science. However, they have been changed so that each empire can now only build one of each, similar to the Sentry Array. This means that they can be very powerful without having to massively increase the build time or cost to prevent them from simply being spammed. Ringworlds have not been changed, and can be built in any number you want, indirectly buffing the effectiveness of the Circle of Life perk.

Additionally, we've made a tweak to the Master Builders perk. This perk, when taken, will now give you the Mega-Engineering technology if you do not already have it, similar to how World Shaper gives Atmospheric Manipulation and Mastery of Nature gives blocker techs. This allows for reliable access to Mega-Engineering for empires that want to focus on Megastructure construction.
2017_09_07_3.png


That's all for today! Next week we'll post the full patch notes for 1.8 and Synthetic Dawn. See you then!
 
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Are hive minds still locked to only one ascension path, because that's also pretty limiting?

Yes, and there are no plans to change this. Removing one limitation does not mean we intend to remove every limitation.
 
I still don't know if you can get +2 Robot Parts and Machine Worlds as non-robot empires. :c

You can not. They're only for Machine Empires.
 
And it's worth only -25 Happiness? That's a quarter from complete depression to absolute ecstasy. :)

"We are the Borg. Prepare to be assimilated."
"I'd rather not, but since I'm living in a really nice place and have plenty of food I can't get riled enough to resist. Okay, go ahead."

That's for being uploaded into a synthetic body where you have individual will. The happiness penalties for being assimilated into a hive mind are much higher.
 
My mistake then. The screenshot said "assimilation" in the upper bit so I assumed that was it. All cool, those penalties must be higher, I agree. :)

EDIT: I should have realised other conditions made no sense for a machine hive society and the screenshot wasn't from one of them.

Assimilation is a catchall citizenship type used for uploading into synths and assimilation into Hive Minds/Assimilator Machine Empires. The living standards differ and have different penalties.
 
I just realized that I forgot to talk about the changes to Megastructures in 1.8. I will be updating the OP in a little bit to add this info.
 
The OP has been updated with the Megastructure changes in 1.8.
 
I see a problem with the Megastructure changes.

What does the Galactic Wonders perk do after you've built your Dyson Sphere, Science Nexus and Sentry Array?
Nothing, just like Mastery of Nature doesn't offer any effect anymore once you have cleared all your blockers.

So that's not really a problem, given that the benefits for these structures are now quite massive.
 
As much as I agree on some things, putting Stellaris in the direct opposition of realism isn't a great idea. While games can't and won't be realistic, that is what most sci-fi genres should strife for, otherwise the reader/player is assaulted by a constant stream of disbelief which they will have to suspend time and again.

Immersion != realism. Immersion is important, realism is not.
 
Is that with or without a sacrificed scientist?
I'd guess with one.
...but why would you do that, you monster?!

[...] For short games, this is fine, especially with the longer-lasting constraints on energy. For long games where you could reasonably build dozens of megastructures without having functionally won the game already, this is arguably worse than not buffing them, depending on the marginal utility of getting bigger benefits for the same resources vs continued ability to expand your resource collection without hurting your research needed to tech up.
Tall benefits *signifcantly* from a reliable Mega Engineering unlock already. With decent tech rolls you can probably start your Ringworld Constructions around year 80 or so.
 
[...]
At this spot, kudos to Wiz and his team for, against their own preferences and visions, listening to the community and changing both MegaStructures and removing the Ascension Path ethic limitations. I know (from actual personal experience), how hard it is to change a piece of entertainment software against your personal preferences, based upon popular demand.
[...]
Oi, I was the one who suggested this change! Don't you dare take my credit for it and give it to someone else!!
 
It's too bad there isn't a Transubstantiation option for Spiritualists, where you try to force the potential of other species in your Empire to awaken.

I'd like to add this, honestly. Will see if we can do it for next update.
 
You mean, you were the one who blackmailed convinced Wiz and co to change it, after the community demanded it from before 1.6 was actually released?
Or did you actually suggest these things whilst 1.6 was still being developed and can now wear that big bright 'Called it' sticker around the office? :p
I can't talk about our internal processes in detail.
However, I can point out that you can increase the chances of feedback being taken into consideration significantly by sending cake to the office.
 
What is the reasoning behind this one? Ring worlds are definitely inferior both in mineral and temporal efficiency to habitats, why can't they get some sort of a redeeming feature? I know you'll bring up the science and unity debuff advantage, but they are addictive and when you are well into the late game the addition of an extra 10% become less noticeable, so 8 habitats compared to one complete ring do not differ by much to be a deciding factor.
Ringworlds get:
(a) Maxed out planet size (which means less penalties-per-pop to unity and science compared to habitats)
(b) Deposits (with a high chance for stuff like Alien Pets)
(c) Access to all regular planetary buildings, particularly Mines
(d) Access to Space Ports for ship construction and extra orbital building slots

That are a significant advantages over regular habitats.
Also for me the limiting factor for Megastructures is usually Influence cost, not Mineral cost.

@Wiz
Megastructures cost and building time seem to make them non viable to an empire preparing for the end game crisis. (Unbidden, swarm , AE)[...]
In my last test game I had 2 fully finished Ringworlds several decades before the Unbidden showed up.
:)
 
Impressive!

Did you have a large enough fleet to counter the initial crisis invasion? (What ever that might have been)

Did the changes mentioned in the DD help getting two full ring worlds set up so quickly?
I had ~1.9k Fleet Power (with a NF Cap of ~1.4k - this included a NF nerf across the board) ready when they came in, so I was able to take them out pretty quickly with Defender of the Galaxy.
Economy wise I could probably have gone to ~2.5k if necessary, but since a war of attrition didn't work too well against the Unbidden, I opted for the quicker solution.

The biggest game changer is that you can now reliably unlock Mega Engineering, so I started my first Ringworld construction around year 70.
 
No offense, but will gene modding *NOT* give some kind of bonus to the leaders? IMHO, those are the strongest bonuses of the bunch. Just take a look at the Synth and Psychic Leader traits: those, by themselves, are worth a LOT of points in terms of species traits...
Gene Ascension has access to "Erudite", which boosts leader levels. It's not *as* big of a benefit as the special traits, but certainly more useful now, since the potential max level cap was increased to 10. Together with some of the other ascension trait nerfs and some misc changes, the gap has gotten quite a bit smaller.

I'm prepared to agree that Dyson spheres have a shot at being competitive with habitats with the new numbers - will have to try them out to know for sure.

However, if a Dyson sphere is merely competitive with habitats rather than superior to them it does lead to the question of why dyson spheres are hard capped but habitats not...
One change that wasn't mentioned (yet), but should be taken into consideration is that Solar Power Plants had their output reduced to 6 (down from 8) and Habitat Labs had their upkeep increased to 3 (up from 2). (Apparently the latter went already live a while back.) :)
 
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Hab Labs have upkeep of 3. Did you mean 4?
No, I meant 3. Gets a bit hard to keep track what changes are already live when you only play the beta branches...