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Stellaris Dev Diary #192 : Perfectly Balanced, As All Things Should Be...

Hello!

This week we’re going to look at some more changes we're planning, as well as a review of how some of the experiments mentioned in the last few dev diaries have evolved.

Thank you for the massive amount of feedback in those threads.

Reduction in Pops

Due to the effects on performance and a desire to reduce the micromanagement burden in the mid to late game, some of the things we’ve been deeply looking into are different ways of dramatically reducing the number of pops in the galaxy.

These experiments have generally revolved around modifying the growth (or assembly required) for pops as an empire’s population grows, with some variants trying a logistic pop growth (where growth follows an S-shaped curve as planets develop, based on a carrying capacity of a planet). These experiments have reduced the end date pop count to somewhere around one half of the old numbers with the expected performance improvements.

Organic pops will follow a curve where they begin at standard population growth, increase growth as the approach a midpoint between population and the planetary carrying capacity, then slow down to zero as they reach the top of the curve. Pop Assembly, on the other hand, is generally slow but consistent. The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does.

A significant reduction in pops has a cascade of major implications for the overall economy, production, and other gameplay effects. As such, these also require a pass on buildings, technologies, and even seemingly minor ripple effects like what the value should be for the trade value generated by pops.

There will be a lot of patch notes.

Most buildings have been standardized to now give 2 jobs per tier rather than the old 2/5/8 progression.

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Just one example of many.

We’ve also changed a few buildings to have new or additional features, such as the Spawning Pool and Clone Vats, which have had their Pop Growth modifiers replaced with the new Organic Pop Assembly. This fills the same slot on the planet as Robotic Pop Assembly, so generally you’ll want to pick one or the other. (Clone Vats also picked up a food upkeep cost to represent simple materials to break down.)

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Pops is Soylent Green!

A few other jobs got minor perks added to them, like the Medical Workers from Gene Clinics making it a little easier to live on less hospitable worlds.

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Doesn't normally produce exotic gas, this one happens to be a lithoid.

And a few new techs have been added to help compensate for lost productivity. One tech line increases both the job production of a planet as well as job upkeep - those fewer pops are still capable of producing the work of more on a developed planet.

Ring Worlds

As part of the balance pass, Ring Worlds have been bumped up to 10 segments from 5, and the jobs per segment have been adjusted.

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The Shattered Ring origin now possesses a warning that it may be a Challenging Origin for Lithoids due to a scarcity of minerals, and now also applies the Ring World Habitability Preference to your pops. We’re considering adding a similar warning for Hives selecting the origin, since the habitability preference change puts a serious crimp in their expansion.

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Put a ring on it?

Their starting blockers have also been adjusted to give a more balanced spread of jobs.

Ecumenopoleis

Like the Ring Worlds, these start with all building slots open. As mentioned before, you can now use the Arcology Project decision on a planet that has a mix of City and Industrial Districts.

Note: Empire has all technologies but no traditions active.
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The ecumenopolis has a unique distinction of being able to have both the Factory and Foundry building lines on the same planet.

Habitats

The changes to Habitat modules are much smaller in scope, but here’s the list of their districts.

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Void Dwellers have gotten a bit of attention as well with some tradition swaps for those that had minimal or no beneficial effects for them.

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Replacing Public Works Division:
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And for Void Dwellers with the Adaptability tree:
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Interstellar Franchising and Imperious Architecture now also function for Habitats.

Updates to Dev Diary 190

Some of these updates may not be new to people following the forum threads, but it's easy to miss things so I figured we should go over them.

Many people requested the ability to fully specialize their foundry and factory worlds. We've modified the Forge and Industrial World planet designations to shift one pop on each Industrial District to the appropriate job if possible.

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We've also upgraded the Food Processing Center, Mineral Purification Hub, and Energy Nexus to provide an extra job to each of their associated resource production districts. (The Food Processing Center will also improve Hydroponics Farms.)

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One of the suggestions made in the thread was to add a civic that increases unlocked Building Slots. Sounded like a great addition to Functional Architecture.

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Functionality increased!

Updates to Dev Diary 191

We’ve explored some additional options regarding the resettlement system we outlined in Dev Diary 191, and after trying a few things, and have settled on some extensive modifications to the system.

All planets with free sapient unemployed pops that are not locked down by migration controls will have a small chance every month of moving one to another planet within their empire that has jobs that they are willing and able to work, housing, and habitability of 40% or higher. This chance is increased if there are multiple unemployed pops that meet the criteria.

The system now prefers to move higher strata pops first, so rulers and specialists will move before workers, and this system also functions for gestalt empires. It will not relocate non-sapient robots or slaves. It will generally prefer to move pops to the planets with the most free jobs.

After some experimentation we’ve chosen to keep the Transit Hubs as Starbase Buildings that provide a system wide buff to the chance of auto-resettlement occurring. (Rather than being essential to have it occur in the first place.)

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Doubles the chance the pops choose to resettle themselves.

Greater Than Ourselves has been rewritten to also massively increase this chance when the edict is active, with a +200% bonus.

We initially had these pops considering destinations available through Migration Pacts as well, but decided against keeping that since it introduced a new Migration Controls micromanagement element that we didn’t find desirable.

We’ve also done a minor update to the Authority bonuses that seemed a little bit weak.

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Democracies now have a bonus encouraging their pops to seek their dreams, and Dictatorships have a bit of an easier time holding things together when they’re a bit overstretched.

Closing Thoughts

One other little quality of life improvement that was just added is this filter on the colonization interface.

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That’s probably long enough for today. We’re looking forward to your feedback on these as well.

Next week w̷e̵'̸l̸l̴ ̴b̸e̴t̵̮̄ǎ̸͈l̷̠̈k̴͔͂i̴̞͒n̷̪͊g̸̳͗ ̸͚̎a̵͉̐b̵̤̿ȯ̴̲ṵ̵̀t̸͇͂ ҈҂▒©╛⅜

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These changes sound great on paper, though of course there may be possible exploits that need to be addressed.

I hope they also keep resource costs the same. The current state of the economy is constant runaway snowballing that requires changing game settings drastically to rein in. With fewer pops, especially in the late game, maybe we don't have to play on 5X crisis strength with 0.75x habitable planets and 2300 endgame start anymore.

True, I'm really looking forward for that
 
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Dear Developers, please consider giving more love and content to give minds in a future update.

I love hive minds, but I'm reluctant to play them as they're lacking in content.

Please consider or respond to these requests.
 
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Yeah, it's more a nerf than anything.



1. Why a "similar" feature. You can use the very same one. There's no reason why slaves shouldn't get shipped around. Which wouldn't be necessary if the algorithm that decides who gets enslaved wasn't borked and insisted upon enslaving unemployed pops for no good reason and above everyone else. You guys are needlessly complicating something and I have yet to hear a reason as to why.
2. A decision to instantly resettle all unemployed pops. So basically a planetary decision, that resettles them at random? At which point, why bother and not just resettle them manually. It's pretty much the same amount of micro.
3. Also why "decent cost"? You guys are trying to slap punishments, restrictions, and other things onto something that is a QoL change. Micro-management the way we currently have it is unenjoyable busy work that detracts from the actual game. This is the equivalent of handing one player a broken mouse and telling them to deal with it. And then going "okay, maybe you can use the unbroken controller every hour for five minutes, but I get to slap you each time you do so and you have to quickly switch it in and out for the broken one again".

This is not an RP thing, this is not a balancing concern. This is a QoL feature.
You have a point. Maybe the devs open this feature to slave
 
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You listened and are still listening!!!!!! There is hope on the horizon! Thank you thank you. Seems like you’re really steaming ahead with crazy changes quickly. Love it. Can’t wait to play this new version of stellaris...hopefully it feels like a real adventure again.
 
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I think the problem is that devs and some of the players might not want slaves to freely move around.

Make it a species right
Oh wait it does exist already

You just have to rework it a bit.

Like Migration/Migration inside the Empire/Migration inside and outside

And allow slaves to be in "Migration inside"
It would apply both for Auto migration and passive migration
 
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Is it just me or does Organic Pop Assembly feel inherently wrong?
Shouldn't it be something like Organic Pop incubation?

100% this. It feels so much like some kind of printf("Increase %s Assembly", popType). Or like, we're assembling people out of corpse parts Frankenstein style. On second thought, maybe that's how Necrids increase their pop growth?

Also, I'd really love if Transit Hubs were renamed for gestalt races. Pneumatic Tube Routing Hub or something that implies my drones get folded up in sleep mode and loaded into hyperspace tubes and FedEx'ed to their new planet. I just have a hard time imagining a bunch of internetworked AI drones wandering through something like the Grand Central Station Transit Hub.
 
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Is it just me or does Organic Pop Assembly feel inherently wrong?
100% this. It feels so much like some kind of printf("Increase %s Assembly", popType). Or like, we're assembling people out of corpse parts Frankenstein style.
Since "Organic Pop Assembly" is intended to represent cloning, the naming I came up for it in my earlier suggestion was "Pop Replication".

The "Pop Assembly" box would replaced with empty box, and whether it's designated "Pop Assembly" or "Pop Replication", and whether the background tile behind the pop shows machinery or clone vats, would depend on whether an organic or a mechanic pop is being produced.
 
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Make it a species right. Oh wait, it does exist already.

You just have to rework it a bit. Like Migration/Migration inside the Empire/Migration inside and outside. And allow slaves to be in "Migration inside". It would apply both for Auto migration and passive migration
I've already suggested this, but we should be able to set up migration settings individually for each planet.
 
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I agree that slaves should be able to Auto move if they've a species right allowing it.
Because it's annoying from a gameplay perspective to have some of your pops stuck, so you still have to resettle manually, and thus micromanage
It's even worse. For absolutely no good reason the algorithm that decides who gets enslaved will do everything it can to enslave unemployed pops. Thus preventing them from moving off-planet, actively hurting whoever uses Indentured Assets/Slavery Guilds. Doubly so because it will free employed pops which were prior enslaved. This entire thing is the equivalent of the system flipping you the bird, then kicking you on the shin for good measure.
 
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I think the problem is that devs and some of the players might not want slaves to freely move around.
1. If it's for RP reasons. A QoL feature shouldn't be withheld based on that. Then again, don't think of it as slaves freely moving around, think of it as slaves being sent wherever they're needed.
2. If because "my slave species". Only species who have no migration controls are affected. Thus a slave species could easily be prevented from being resettled by enabling those.
 
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It's even worse. For absolutely no good reason the algorithm that decides who gets enslaved will do everything it can to enslave unemployed pops. Thus preventing them from moving off-planet, actively hurting whoever uses Indentured Assets/Slavery Guilds. Doubly so because it will free employed pops which were prior enslaved. This entire thing is the equivalent of the system flipping you the bird, then kicking you on the shin for good measure.
Very sad, I hope they fix that before release
 
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Since "Organic Pop Assembly" is intended to represent cloning, the naming I came up for it in my earlier suggestion was "Pop Replication".

The "Pop Assembly" box would replaced with empty box, and whether it's designated "Pop Assembly" or "Pop Replication", and whether the background tile behind the pop shows machinery or clone vats, would depend on whether an organic or a mechanic pop is being produced.

Yeah, I missed that in the OP that you now organic growth and then organic/robotic pop assembly. Still leaves the question on how increasing costs for pops work though.
 
While you are reworking buildings and districts, can habitats be put on even footing with planets with regards to the capital building? It's a bit unfortunate that it IS entirely possible to develop a habitat into a fairly populous world, especially now that habs can expand, but we are stuck with a capital building equivalent to a lower tier world in the early middle stage of its development.

I see the change to give void dwellers origin an extra building slot. Will Vodbourne remain as it is, granting 2 building slots, or is that getting a tweak?

It also seems weird to me to have food be the only basic resource to come from a building. Both from the angle of why aren't there power and mineral buildings, but also why isn't there an agriculture district for habitats?
 
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I dunno about this. Yes ringworld is good, but this makes it bad, really bad.

I disagree. Imo Ringworld Habitability is something that should have been included from the get-go. Ringworld start is still really strong. This just lessens it from the absolute God-tier start and easy-mode it used to be. It was almost on the same level as Scion, which basically turns the game into a tutorial.

And of course this change doesn't effect robot or lithoid starts at all.
 
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I disagree. Imo Ringworld Habitability is something that should have been included from the get-go. Ringworld start is still really strong. This just lessens it from the absolute God-tier start and easy-mode it used to be. It was almost on the same level as Scion, which basically turns the game into a tutorial.

And of course this change doesn't effect robot or lithoid starts at all.
It affects Lithoids. 50% habitability everywhere else isn't good. As for bios, this basically kills Ring World start. Nobody takes Gaia for a reason. Voidborne can quickly get to the point where they can build additional habitats and get minerals in various ways. Still good for Machine Empires. Bad for everyone else now.
 
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I disagree. Imo Ringworld Habitability is something that should have been included from the get-go. Ringworld start is still really strong. This just lessens it from the absolute God-tier start and easy-mode it used to be. It was almost on the same level as Scion, which basically turns the game into a tutorial.

And of course this change doesn't effect robot or lithoid starts at all.

Ringworld was strong, but the "strong" origins had a lot of competition between hegemony, void dweller, scion, doomsday robots, and necrophage fan purifiers, all of which I would rate as top tier. Ringworld habitability means you might be effectively locked from colonizing other planets for decades, and that's an insurmountable penalty. The only advantage of Ringworlds is their ability to spam research districts (something void dwellers can also do almost as easily), this gimps them too much. Lithoids are absolutely affected. The fact that this doesn't affect robots (who are also the stronger pick for ringworlds since they can research with energy rather than minerals->CGs) just shows how nonsense the nerf is.
 
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