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HOI4 Dev Diary - Yugoslavia and Romania

Hello and welcome to another developer diary for the 1.10 Collie patch!

Today we’re going to be focusing on some content coming with the patch that will add new content for owners of the Death or Dishonor expansion. Everything that follows will be accessible to DoD owners and will not be unlocked by purchasing Battle for the Bosporus. Some of you may already know this from the leaked screenshot on the Steam store, but Yugoslavia will be getting a light rework coming free with the patch for any owners of Death or Dishonor.
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When I originally joined full-time on the project, I was given a list of common complaints from the community regarding the content in Death or Dishonor. Most of these issues were trivial, but none had a longer list of complaints than Yugoslavia so it seemed right that instead of attempting to stitch together a series of minimal low-visibility fixes, it would be best to do a partial rework of the Yugoslavia tree.

This is not quite to the scale of previous major reworks, however. The first draft of changes began as something I worked on out of my free time, so I wanted to keep scope low and avoid creating too much extra work on top of the existing BftB content while improving the overall quality of the Yugoslavia tree to give players more options to explore both history and alt-history.

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Let’s begin with the communist focuses, which have seen a little change. For a long time, Yugoslavia was able to branch off and make its own faction with itself, Bulgaria, and Albania but the chances of getting those nations to become Communist in a regular playthrough was pretty dang low. So, Yugoslavia now gains access to a series of decisions to steadily support a peasant’s uprising in both Bulgaria and Albania, creating a viable way to bring them into the Pan-Slavic Worker’s Congress.

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Once done, Yugoslavia will gain access to a whole slew of new focuses with their faction reorganizing into the Pan-Balkan Worker’s Congress. Romania, Turkey, Greece, and Hungary are all valid targets for peasant uprisings, so if you ever wanted to see the Balkans start wearing purple, Tito now has all the tools to do it.

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Next, we’ll take a look at the old monarchist focuses and how overall the decisions you made were pretty objectively one good decision and one bad. What I really liked about Yugoslavia was the fact that you were constantly making decisions with every focus you pick, following this kind of ladder-design, but with the new tree, I wanted to take that a step further and create some more meaningful and involved choices.
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At the very start of their focus tree, Yugoslavia has a choice to either pursue Evolution or Limited Self-Government. Evolution is basically the old Yugoslavia design, where you attempt to stomp out nationalism in your country by whatever means you see fit.
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First, establishing the Banate of Croatia no longer makes Croatia a puppet and instead gives Yugoslavia a temporary softer version of Croatian Opposition, but choosing to Crush the Ustase is now a much more involved process and can result in Croatian Nationalism being removed entirely. Crushing the Ustase is a series of decisions tied to two missions. One mission will make the Ustase rise up in an independence war, and the other will peacefully stamp them out. Players have access to a number of decisions to either delay the uprising or speed up the peaceful removal of the Ustase and it’ll take a lot of close attention to keep Yugoslavia in one piece while stamping out nationalism.
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For the next two focuses, Yugoslavia has the option to both play appeasement to Italy and Bulgaria while also permanently removing some of their problems. The old focuses do what they always have, but now the negative spirit gained only lasts for a few years, but giving up the territories to these powers will now grant a significant increase in opinion while removing the spirits completely.
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Now is as good a time as any to bring up the reworked Yugoslavian states! The goal of this state rework was to facilitate for both modern Balkan borders for the sake of releasables and historical occupation zones.
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But instead of doing all that work to maintain the union, Yugoslavia can choose instead to grant self-government to its constituent parts, permanently removing the negative spirits at the cost of losing all of its territory besides Serbia proper. Throughout this path, Yugoslavia will get to choose exactly how it wants to devolve itself; should the two Banovinas of Croatia be individually independent or should they be merged into one? Should the contested territory of Vojvodina be fortified against the Hungarians, given up to them as an act of appeasement, or granted self-government? The ladder design here is more of a choice of how chaotic you want the Balkans to be than a strategic decision. Personally, I enjoy achieving peak-Balkans and granting autonomy to everyone.
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Once done tearing itself apart, Yugoslavia can attempt to reintegrate its constituent parts, or grant full independence to the Balkans, replacing Yugoslavia with a military alliance backed up by a hefty number of free units shared between each of the Balkan nations. Going down the route of independence, the Balkans will have more than double the number of troops Yugoslavia begins the game with, so breaking yourself apart may not be such a bad decision with the Axis breathing down your neck.
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Prince Paul is no longer the blank slate he was in the old Yugoslavia design and trying to keep him in power means attempting to align yourself with the Axis. Just like before though, both Britain and the Yugoslavian military are deeply opposed to an Axis alliance, and attempting to do so may lead to a coup.
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However, should the coup fail and Paul remains in power, the regency will hardly be a regency after they rejected the right of the legitimate heir to take the throne, so perhaps a new King will be needed to guide Yugoslavia in its dark future…
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Joining the Allies brings its own set of difficulties, besides the distance of your friends in the West. King Peter is a mere 12 years old in 1936 and if you attempt to end the regency too early, you will be saddled with a monarch woefully unprepared for rulership.
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Given a few years however, King Peter matures into the legitimate heir of the Yugoslav throne and may marry himself into a little more than just the Allies.
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The Royal Wedding focus allows King Peter to marry himself to many of the major Princesses in Europe and who is available adapts dynamically based on the current state of the world. If the Kaiser returns, Yugoslavia will be able to marry a German princess, similarly they may marry a Spanish princess should the Carlists win the Spanish Civil War. Their choice will then inform the outcome of the focus “The Royal Alliance”, which can bring Yugoslavia into a faction with whomever they chose to marry, with Princess Alexandra of Greece resulting in a historic Yugoslav entry to the Allies.
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Yugoslavia is not the only Death or Dishonor country getting new content, however. Romania will now have the ability to change sides midway through the war via a decision following a government coup.
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On top of that, the Divide Yugoslavia focus is now a game of bidding and demanding from the powers Romania chooses to invite to the dogpile. Similar to the SCW garrison system, each nation can make up to three bids on a Yugoslav state before being locked in as the controller. When each state is claimed, Romania may push the button and issue their demands to Yugoslavia. This can lead to some… interesting looking Balkans.
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There are more changes coming to Romania, but for that I will hand you over to our Producer.

Hi everyone, Vash here with some of the changes I’ve made for Romania. Back in February, one of our forum members, Zeprion, made some suggestions for Romania that we unfortunately couldn’t get to in time for La Resistance. While I still didn’t have the chance to get through the full list, I was able to make a few changes that I’m happy to talk about!

Previously, you may have noticed that the political parties and leaders in 1936 were swapped. Historically, the ruling party in 1936 was Democratic PNL, with Gheorghe Tătărescu as the leader. Armand Calimanescu was also the leader of Non-Aligned FRN. This has now been fixed, and they both have the correct party affiliations. This also means that Romania now starts off in 1936 as Democratic instead of Non-Aligned. We’ve also done some balancing on the back end to account for this change.
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Next up, we also switched the starting fascist leader to Octavian Goga, who was the leader of the National Christian Party (Partidul Național Creștin). That means we’ve also switched the starting fascism party to the PNC.

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What this means for the player is that upon taking the Iron Guard focus, Ion Antonescu will become the figure head for the fascist party and the party will be renamed from the PNC to Garda de Fier.

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Another important historical fact that Zeprion brought up was that King Michael’s Coup was not against his father, but against the fascist Iron Guard. We’ve now relocated this focus to the bottom of the fascist tree.

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This now gives the player three options to choose from. You can either stage the coup and appoint King Michael as the leader of the Democratic Party under a constitutional monarchy, force King Carol’s abdication and replace him with the leader of the most popular party, or Handle the King and allow King Carol to stay in power since he has changed his ways for the better.

We’ve also updated the state priorities for some of our building focuses to ensure they don’t give infrastructure bonuses to states you may have given up prior to the start of the war such as Bukovina, Bessarabia, and Northern Transylvania.

And last but not least, we’ve given Constantin Sanatescu a bit of an upgrade! Previously he was only available as an Army Chief with a defensive bonus, but he is now available as a General as well.

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That’s it for all the Romania changes for now. Thanks again to Zeprion for all the feedback, and I hope everyone enjoyed this week’s Dev Diary!
 
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This is great, although I think it will produce a very ahistorical post war Europe until more content is added in this regard. At the end of WW2 Romania was still a Kingdom but still very much a Soviet puppet as the later and in 1947 the monarchy was dissolved after the "abdication" of Michael.

But unless I am missing something here unless the USSR can capitulate Romania before they change sides we will end with a West-East Germany situation where the USSR will be unable to turn Romania into a communist puppet as half of the later will be under the umbrella of the allies
Yes, although it is entirely dynamic. The requirements are that an occupying country IS at war with Romania's old faction leader but is NOT at war with their new one. It will work the same if say the UK is occupying Romania while they change sides to the Comintern. It's not entirely historical, but it is as close an approximation as we can get within the confines of the existing game mechanics.
 
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Yes, although it is entirely dynamic. The requirements are that an occupying country IS at war with Romania's old faction leader but is NOT at war with their new one. It will work the same if say the UK is occupying Romania while they change sides to the Comintern. It's not entirely historical, but it is as close an approximation as we can get within the confines of the existing game mechanics.

Just one last question in this regard, will Romania with historical AI defect to the Comintern or the Allies?.

Common sense and the political reality of Romania would say the later as they would be free to maintain the status quo, but having Romania joint the Comintern would lead to a more historical post war setting where a non Communist Romania ends in the Soviet Sphere of influence
 
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Nice work! I had always hoped for a Yugoslavian rework.
I would like to make some suggestions for greater historical accuracy:

  • Rename Rijeka as Sušak. Rijeka at the time was an Italian city, Fiume. After the Treaty of Rapallo, 1920, Italy and Yugoslavia settled their mutual border disputes and Fiume was assigned to Italy and its suburb Sušak to Yugoslavia.
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  • Remove the Yugoslavian claim on Istria, it was dropped after the Treaty of Rapallo.
 
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Yes, although it is entirely dynamic. The requirements are that an occupying country IS at war with Romania's old faction leader but is NOT at war with their new one. It will work the same if say the UK is occupying Romania while they change sides to the Comintern. It's not entirely historical, but it is as close an approximation as we can get within the confines of the existing game mechanics.

Since it seems like you guys are continuing to work on Romania, can we expect the system to see some changes in the future? Maybe an event chain for the 2 Romanias to unite under the larger one?
 
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Would be good that if two countries exist (communist Romania and democratic and both are independent or subjects of the same overlord and get the same ideology they should have a decision to reunite,same goes for Korea, Germany etc.)
 
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I also like the way peak-Balkans on the map looks. However, though there would be more than double the number of troops for Yugoslavia from beginning, and absolutely more factories, I still have no confidence that this bunch of AI could stop the Axis :D
 
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I am very appreciative for @Meka66 to come back today and give more answers and put some decisions in context. One of the larger wants I see in these forums is to get some feedback. I wished there were more hours in the day so it could happen more often.

I am very happy with the work. Actually, thrilled! Several times, the blue posts showed me they were listening to people who were posting good information on the forums and even used some of that information in the new content. That makes me happy, because I am constantly amazed at how much people who post here know about the time period. The discussions had here are often times more entertaining to me than fluff I read through internet searches. It is great to see that the developers notice it, too.
 
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View attachment 634991
Deciding how exactly to represent Romania changing sides with Hearts of Iron mechanics was weird. The solution we went for in the end is that Romania gets a white peace with all nations who are currently at war with their old faction leader. In the event that they are currently being occupied, the occupying nation gets a subject state to compensate for their sunk costs. While historically the Soviets continued to occupy Romania, this leads to a lot of strangeness in-game mechanics-wise because they are occupying a country they are not at war with and it was best to just make something of a semi-historical outcome to keep both sides happy.
Interesting. Maybe fire an event after WW2 that unifies both Romanias but as a puppet of the Soviet Union?
Or maybe, instead of Romania always joining the Allies, the Soviets get an event to choose between allowing Romania to join the Allies or puppeting it to the Comintern. Historically, the Soviets didn't accept the Romanian change of sides and occupied anyway, so why not give the option to the Soviets to turn it into their puppet when it tries to join the Allies?

Right now, Romania's AI will not change sides unless historical AIs are turned on and the historical changing sides date has been reached.
Aren't there more requirements, like surrender progress? Game dates won't necessarily go with historical dates. And what if the date comes but Romania isn't losing?
 
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There are things I would love to change about Hungary, but sadly the scope of changes for this patch were confined mainly to Romania and Yugoslavia. So, for everyone asking for updates to Hungary and Czechoslovakia, I can confirm it will not be happening this patch.
I can wait.

Will Italy be next?
They'll be reworked with the USSR in the DLC after this one, I'd wager. That's probably the big project they're working on simultaneously, and this is both setting the stage and giving us something to hold us over until then.
 
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They'll be reworked with the USSR in the DLC after this one, I'd wager. That's probably the big project they're working on simultaneously, and this is both setting the stage and giving us something to hold us over until then.

Update 1.11 'Barbarossa' was confirmed months ago as the update after 1.10 'Collie', I doubt they're calling it Barbarossa and not doing the USSR after all the complaints of not giving the Eastern Front attention.
 
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Paradox
Don't, you, like, have anyone capable of just reading a wikipedia on Yugoslav state from its emergence to death?
Wikipedia is wrong, very wrong, in a lot of stuff, not just Balkan wars, but it's the rightest of all the wrongs you see on the internet.
Some will say this is typical Balkan people rattle. But this is just becoming insulting in any game you create. I find it insulting personally, and even if I disagree with a lot of my country neighbours, they'd agree with me on this one.

Ustaša were not even a threat to Yugoslavia, they were never considered at that time as any sort of solution, any sort of saviors in the eyes of Croatian people.
Crushing the Ustaša focus is so wrong
I mean, it should exist, because they were indeed a threat to Yugoslavia in some ways, but crushing the Ustaša has NOTHING to do with Croatians back then. What I want to say is, crushing the Ustaša would not solve the Croatian question and demands for autonomy, they never represented anyone, they held no office, had no influence over the generals or anything before they took power in 1941. They were indeed most aggressive, let's call them 'party' back in the day, but a long road to be of ANY influence in Croatian politics. They became prominent when they were offered to lead the state. And they were offered to lead the state not because they had omnipotent influence in Croatia and Croatian people minds, but because Vladko Maček and HSS, the strongest and most influential party in Croatia REFUSED to lead the state. Hitler wanted Vladko Maček to lead the state of Croatia, not Ante Pavelic and his Ustaše organization. They were trained in Italy, by Italians, to serve as rulers of Croatia when Yugoslavia falls. Hitler had to accept their leadership because no one else would take it.

What happened afterwards, is another story of it's own. Gradually they did become something, they ruled the state, it's obvious they'd gain influence. And with fascist politics they did 'persuade' and persuade a lot of people that they were, are, and will be the only choice in Croatian politics.
Ways to represent some ahistorical rise to Ustaša before they became prominent would be by events and decisions, which would gradually increase some 'Ustaša' anger and raise their sympathies among the people. Them leading an independence uprising is plain wrong, they had no means to do it, and Italy did support them but that would never be enough. Perhaps some events for Italy too, were they would arm them more too would be more logical then this.

What also bothers me is the fact you are using some modern day flags in Yugoslav focus tree, like Bosnian one. This is wrong on so many levels. If only there are no flags from the time period I'd understand - but there is A PLETHORA of flags for every time period of any Balkan state.

Also Pavle Karađorđević is not a collaborator by his nature, or evil intentions. He wanted to save the state from destruction. Because he was never a German loyalist or something as he is represented in your games, but rather the opposite. A guy with intelligence who realized Britain is very, very, far away, and Germany suddenly bordered his country. He is not a fascist. A failed coup would result in Yugoslavia staying even more with Axis, and not be divided by them with their territory taken and made into a puppet. If that happened Pavle would not be the in charge, you have other people in Yugoslavia for those positions.

Where are Četniks, where are Tito's partisans ( and no, focuses for communism before the war are no partisans )
Things in Yugoslavia emerged one after another. Tito became popular in the war, because Germans and Italians destroyed the place and left it to Ustašas to guard who destroyed it even more in collaboration with rogue Četniks.
Nothing happens when Yugoslavia falls to the Axis. It just stays occupied. If it gets liberated in the war it gets liberated as a monarchy. That was not how it happened in history. Because Tito's Yugoslavia emerged in the middle of the war which is entirely different and long topic of how and when.

You make communists focus trees for some implausible things, like Turkey and Greece joining Yugoslav Communist sphere, and yet you cannot make a simple event of another Yugoslavia happening in occupied territories if Germany starts to lose the war. That's when TITO happened, not in 1936, when he was a nobody.
 
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Here's a question for @Meka66

Will Bulgaria choosing to support IMRO have any impact on the likelihood of AI Yugoslavia choosing to surrender Macedonia to Bulgaria? I think this would be a really nice touch and give players more of a reason to do it as Bulgaria.
 
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They actually can! If you devolve Yugoslavia and complete the Greater Yugoslavia focus to puppet Bulgaria, you will gain cores on them if you then go on to Reunite the Kingdom.
Thanks for responding. That's good to hear, though does that mean there is no way to get cores on Bulgaria peacefully or if you're not a fascist? Historically Tito's Yugoslavia got very close to merging with/annexing Bulgaria prior to the Tito-Stalin split. It's always been weird to me that you can't get anywhere close to replicating this in the game.


wikipedia said:
For a short period during the Cominform, the Yugoslav and Bulgarian Communist leaders Josip Broz Tito and Georgi Dimitrov worked on a project to merge their two countries into a Balkan Federative Republic. As a concession to the Yugoslav side, Bulgarian authorities agreed to the recognition of a distinct Macedonian ethnicity and language in part of their own population in the Bulgarian part of the geographic region of Macedonia. This was one of the conditions of the Bled Agreement, signed between Yugoslavia and Bulgaria on 1 August 1947. In November 1947, pressured by both the Yugoslavs and the Soviets, Bulgaria also signed a treaty of friendship with Yugoslavia.[13][14] The Bulgarian head of state Georgi Dimitrov was sympathetic to the Macedonian Question.[15] The Bulgarian Communist party was compelled once again to adapt its stance to Soviet interests in the Balkans.[14] The policies resulting from the agreement were reversed after the Tito–Stalin split in June 1948, when Bulgaria, being subordinated to Soviet interests, was forced to take a stance against Yugoslavia.[16]

Also, as one last question, will the revolting Yugoslavia in the event of a civil war over Axis membership still always have/keep the generic focus tree? It often leads to a very boring post-war Yugoslavia when the revolver wins at present as a result.
 
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I know this is gonna come off as really nitpicky but could you guys please consider adding voices for Yugoslavia? The official language of the Yugoslav military was Serbo-Croatian so it really won't be controversial adding them. On a side note, fantastic job!
 
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One thing I've been wishing for Yugoslavia since DoD and been wondering if it will be part of this update: Is there a way for Yugoslavia to become communist later on? As historically Yugoslavia partisans mainly liberated their country on their own and became communist. I've been wondering if such a thing can be implemented or is even already considered? It could work great in combination with the La Resistance uprisings.
 
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One thing I've been wishing for Yugoslavia since DoD and been wondering if it will be part of this update: Is there a way for Yugoslavia to become communist later on? As historically Yugoslavia partisans mainly liberated their country on their own and became communist. I've been wondering if such a thing can be implemented or is even already considered? It could work great in combination with the La Resistance uprisings.

Doesn't appear to be since we won't be seeing more content really, next week will likely be small extra stuff, answering some questions, achievements and such, and there was nothing before and seems to be nothing in this about it. Shame really, communist groups in Yugoslavia and Greece are missing and were quite big for the future of the region, they don't even get a after occupation tree for Yugoslavia like the Netherlands get, it is disappointing to say the least.
 
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It's a real shame considering much of the work of liberating Yugoslavia was done by the partisans. Yugoslavia is practically begging for a post-capitulation aspect to its tree.

They deserve it more then the Netherlands do, I love the Dutch country and I have recent ancestry to it, especially for the time, but the Dutch military didn't show up from the East Indies and save it, it primarily was saved by Canadian and some British and American troops. Meanwhile, Yugoslavia actually saved itself as Germany pulled more and more troops out and the partisan groups grew and grew, up to ~650,000 by late '44. They fought battles for years against the Germans, Croats and Italians. So they absolutely need a post-invasion tree.

Personally I would make Greece, who needs partisans too, and Yugoslavia be like France, after occupation starts a new tree starts. For Yugoslavia, and I'm talking about historical mode for these countries, Croatia should become a puppet of Italy, since a co-puppet mechanic would be hard, and have its own tree of dealing with the Balkans, perhaps keeping loyal to the Axis or going against it, maybe you make it like Bulgaria and ask for new states to patrol and make a new Yugoslavia but its dominated by Catholic Croats and not Orthodox Serbs, add the choice between keeping a fascist government or embrace the monarchy, they had a King but never really did much but still would be fun path. While a Free Yugoslavia is made, the player would have choices between which ideology becomes the dominate one, so historical would be communist, but you could choose democratic or monarchist ones and fight to liberate Yugoslavia. Greece would be very similar, the Hellenic State would be made, the Axis puppet of Italy, and would have its path, while a Free Greece would have its options as well. There is so much rich gameplay potential in the Balkans and its being ignored, and I understand there are more important fronts, but I fear they won't come back and do these missing major gameplay changes.
 
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