HOI4 Dev Diary - Stability and War Support

[Masoud22volk]

Cool

 

[Axe99]

Damn... Seems cool. But will hinder most mods for a while.

While new features are almost guaranteed to take mods a little while to adjust to, I'd be surprised if most modders weren't very happy with them - more features generally means more potential to mod things in whichever direction the modder is keen on. I'd be very surprised if these particular changes weren't very good news for a bunch of mods. I can only speak for me, but I'd much rather the game continued to develop and expand/deepen, rather than sat still because of the inconvenience of having to adapt/update my mods or wait for my favourite mods to b updated .

Also - you can always save a copy of your favourite mod on your local drive, and play a pre-patch version of HoI4 while it's updated .

 

[Person012345]

Apparently I don't. And I didn't get the memo we all think the same or alike.

Not "all" but there are certain trends and generalised statements you can make about the way people behave and think, especially in large groups, the same as you can with any animal. Granted, the same setup will not guaranteed lead to the same outcome every time, but proposing that a nation of people who are in a period of revanchism would suddenly mass oppose a war just because they got a few things they wanted is not likely. As people pointed out, it tends to be that it increases support for the government generally, makes people think their national claims of moral superiority are correct and makes them more emboldened to take on those who would oppose them. This makes much more sense as a game rule from a realism perspective.

 

[AlleyTheToaster]

That's actually quite exciting. I love it thus far.

 

[TheAtreides84]

In the last months I've lost track of HoI4 development, after having decided to wait for mods and expansions. I remember being really unhappy with the absence of a separate peace mechanism. There have been changes to the peace mechanics in the meantime? Maybe it's time to start playing again.

 

[Gamer_1745]

It's still in development and we will have to see if we can make the AI understand that it should disband units in that case (but not in this case, or if that case and that other case happen simultaneously, unless yet another case also happens etc.).

Can/will we have reserve units somewhat like we did in HoI 3?

 

[Archangel85]

Can/will we have reserve units somewhat like we did in HoI 3?

Maybe one day, but probably not in this DLC cycle

 

[Alex_brunius]

Can/will we have reserve units somewhat like we did in HoI 3?

Yeah I second this. The reason why reserve & mobilization system failed miserably in HoI3 and was full of issues, inconsistencies and exploits is because equipment and manpower was not tracked separately...

In HoI4 they are, meaning in theory it should be pretty simple to limit the manpower to X% of max while a division have full equipment strength!

 

[BlueAndGrey]

What happens in the conscription rebellion event

 

[xiaox]

This game already released over one year with a lot of dlcs still only those western countries and there puppets and japan has national focus tree

 

[gossamer]

In the last months I've lost track of HoI4 development, after having decided to wait for mods and expansions. I remember being really unhappy with the absence of a separate peace mechanism. There have been changes to the peace mechanics in the meantime? Maybe it's time to start playing again.

Still nothing mentioned. Still no mechanic. Still unhappy.

 

[Alex_brunius]

This game already released over one year with a lot of dlcs still only those western countries and there puppets and japan has national focus tree

WW2 was mainly a war between western countries and their minor allies + Japan, so it makes sense to use these priorities for a WW2 game, right?

 

[Dan1109]

Yeah I second this. The reason why reserve & mobilization system failed miserably in HoI3 and was full of issues, inconsistencies and exploits is because equipment and manpower was not tracked separately...

In HoI4 they are, meaning in theory it should be pretty simple to limit the manpower to X% of max while a division have full equipment strength!

.

Yep, you might have 50% Regular Divisions during partial mobilization but when DOWed, your infusion of troops would reduce their experience, requiring you to immediately use LESS experienced troops at recently obtained full strength or have to hunker down and train for a few months prior to your first counter attack. AI of course would use whatever it had.

Ships and aircraft would need a strength reduction based on mobilization. Aircraft could perhaps have a nasty range malus or efficiency malus to reduce aircraft available while mobilizing. Aircraft reinforce quite quickly so it would have to be a daily modifier to reduce the malus while mobilization laws are changed. Same for ships, as we can't expect the AI to have to 'repair' those ships to regain the strength, that could take years.

Would need modifiers for this to buff AI at harder levels, else sneak attacks by human would wreck AI.

 

[agentgb]

wow this is just fricken excellent!! the mechanics look really really well thought out!! not sure if this makes coups a fair strat now in MP, but given the direction of the stability/coup resistances relationship, it looks to be edging in the direction that helps out in that department, eveything is gold in this dev diary, it's like the devs knew exactly what was needed to add more depth to "admin/running a country" during wartime. I understand some of these factors/variables may be out of the players control, which isn't a bad thing, but can open up so many more avenues/relationships to other untapped areas of the game like the option to try and diminsh war support/stability in a target country...

so instead of just trying to swing a party and launch a coup, you instead have to combine a number of factors for a sucessful coup, like lowering war support and stability )plus hard power means like bombing them so a country that isn't directly under attack cannot just be flipped e.g flipping the USA without hardpower. soft power route should be long & hard unless internal politics by a player are helping in that direction) to breed the conditions for a uprising. If done well like how this dev diary is thought out, it could make ganking PP into a country by many players far less effective, so longs there are equal costly ways to counter it and instead punishes the player who chooses to totally avoid countering interference into there country. Tbh i don't think alot of people want the espionage side of things properly fleshed out yet, don't see enough clamour there, but it's somthing that the game could eventually do with for sure!! For historical context, the communist rise to power rose of the back of there invovlement in ww1, so it wasn't just soft power alone with sending lenin back, but hard power inflicted by huge losses, a ton of contributing factors, and the mechanics are now getting there to properly illustrate the steps on how to properly & authentically engineer a coup then just spending X amount of PP alone in one area and waiting for X date for it to fire.

So far you're tackling the highly sought stuff, like the Chain of Command and now this! nailing it atm! Two things i've been clamouring for. The only other top thing i've been clamouring for but not alot of people are on the same page with this, is for more of a Custom Nation (like that of EU4, CK2 or Finest Hour/althou that seems rescricted, more like EU4 in that department) & Random generated Map perhaps like that of Civ games, so geography isn't made to predictable when determining strategic locations, since atm, everyone knows of by heart where to defend and create choke points, and doesn't allow for more innovative play while being on a more equal footing that a random generated and custom nation mechanics could provide for perhaps MP games. I'm probably alone in this to be fair, since this notion of mine has never sat well with alot of my fellow paradoxians, and would be a huge risk/gamble plus undertaking for Paradox unless people actually wanted this too, but for all this to work, perhaps the rules of conquest would need to somewhat change from that total conquest to more humble peace deals like that of Eu4 or viccy2, more or less a compelety different game in some respects that chimes more with Viccy 2 (puppet system in HOI4 seems alot like Viccy2) but with the actual combat/ary depth that HOI offers, instead of moving just big stacks around like in Viccy2. I guess war tension would need to be tweaked and badboy scores altered to simulate this better along with peace deals, but i'm just geeking out now, and moving into unrealistic settings, since most do play this for it's historical narrative and not a totally ahistorical out of whack alternative timeline/world.

Keep up the good work but don't rest on your laurels! These are two excellent improvements to the game regardless of my wishes there that can probably be taken in that direction with mods for a more free for all setting where the geopolitics and alliances can shift on a dime.

 

[Dan1109]

Maybe one day, but probably not in this DLC cycle

I guess before I start getting excited about Mobilization, what is the Mobilization Speed modifier used for shown on Podcat's screen capture? Is this a supply/reinforcement speed modifier? If not used for a Reserve System capping strength while not at peak War Support, I don't understand what it's used for.

 

[Dan1109]

I guess before I start getting excited about Mobilization, what is the Mobilization Speed modifier used for shown on Podcat's screen capture? Is this a supply/reinforcement speed modifier? If not used for a Reserve System capping strength while not at peak War Support, I don't understand what it's used for.

Sorry, reread thread and see exactly what the intended use is. Training Speed bonus and available manpower related.

 

[DmUa]

Yes. If you have mobilization or manpower laws that your population no longer supports because the war is over, bad things will happen.

- huh, will you lift up current "democratic" restrictions on warmongering than?

 

[SpeedKatMcNasty]

The team is split on the issue of money. 14 out of 15 people on the team want money in. @podcat thinks differently.

The issue is that money played very little role in the internal economies. The Reichsmark was essentially monopoly money during the timeframe of the war. Inflation was an issue, but price controls and rationing could counteract that. Manhours spent is a far better value to assess the "cost" to the war economy of building weapons. For the purpose of paying soldiers, the government could always just print money, so in this particular event the effect is simply that it costs more pp.

Personally, I would love to get money back in the game at some point, but it'll probably be focused more on international trade where you actually had to pay in hard cash.

I have an interesting solution to this. If you've ever played the board game "Axis and Allies" all nation's dealt in currency, but it wasn't $ currency. It was "Man Hours" represented by a number amount (so building an Aircraft Carrier would take 10 million man hours or something which you would pay for with your paper currency representation). If I haven't lost you with my rather poor explanation so far this idea could actually be taken even further.

Each nation could have a pool of man-hours (money) that would used to build military factories, pay unit upkeep (each unit would have an upkeep in ratio to it's base supply consumption to represent the costs in agriculture and other civilian fields to feed men or build replacement parts) or construct buildings. Higher levels of recruitment would cut into your man-hours (money) generation instead of directly lowering factory output and construction like it does now. Resources could also be paid for using it. This could be taken even farther.

The idea of civilian factories could be totally dropped. Instead, you generate man hours (money) based on your population modified by a couple of different factors. Instead of consumer goods cost you have man-hour efficiency (name pending). Doing things like increasing your economy or trade law or completing a focus like the UK's General Rearmament would increase your man-hour generation and allow you to make more efficient use of your population. This is also the vehicle you would use to prevent highly populous but low industry nation's like India or China from becoming too powerful. They could start with national spirits that reduce their man-hour efficiency (much like Canada or Australia start with consumer goods negatives).

 

[Deutschlanduberalles]

Opens up a lot of possibilities for the community in the future

 

[Nerdman3000]

Just noticed something intriguing, in the first image from the first post, in the tabs where you have research and production, there are eight tabs, rather than the usual seven. The new tab is hidden a bit by the whole info box, but you can see the very top of it.

Very interesting indeed. Combined with the new telephone symbol makes me think we're finally getting intelligence into the game.