• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 20th of August 2019

Good day and welcome to another EUIV Dev Diary. This week we shall be tackling the Ecumenical matter of Catholicism in the game.

Catholicism is a bit of a funny one when it comes to religions in EUIV. When the game came out, it was one of the few religions that actually had mechanics attached to it, which helped in making it an attractive choice, both in terms of power for your nation, and flavour for your campaign. Over the many years of EUIV's updates and expansions, many religions across the world have been given their own mechanics and flavour, leaving Catholicism in the lurch. Its mechanisms have dulled in the face of those from other Christian denominations, and it is often blasted as a poor pick of religion for a budding European power, when Protestantisms and the Orthodox and Coptics are such tantalising alternatives.

In the upcoming European Expansion, we want to empower the Catholic faith, and bring a sparkle back to the appeal of remaining faithful to Rome, as well as allowing the Papal States themselves to thrive in the power and authority as being head of the faith, and really feel the impact of the faith being torn apart when reformation hits.

Firstly, as anybody knows, the root of all power is money. To this end, the upcoming expansion will be introducing the Papal Tithe. There will be a treasury in the game, not owned by any nation but belonging to the Curia itself.

As will be a common theme, numbers and UI are far from final

20th Aug Tithe.jpg


The Curia Treasury fattens up based on the number of Catholic nations in the world. The money is not taken from the nations, but rather is added to the Curia based on the amount of Crown Land held by the Clergy Estate in these nations. Nations who pass the Dissolution of Monasteries will stop their lands from contributing to the Tithe.

The Tithe can also be directly paid into by particularly pious nations. Nations can buy indulgence which pays directly into the Tithe, and in addition to feeling relief from avoiding purgatory, can enjoy added Papal Influence and temporary defence from Excommunication.

The Curia Treasury can of course be dipped into, and the privilege few who can do so are the lofty Curia Controllers themselves. Each Curia Controller can pass one Papal Bull in their tenure, which is an action the exclusively costs money from this Curia Treasury. Papal Bulls are unique actions that affect all of Catholicism:

  • Illius qui se pro divini: Enables Crusades after the Age limit is imposed.
  • Apostolicae Servitutis: 50% Cheaper Curia Powers (Levy Church Tax, Proclaim Holy War etc..)
  • Praeclara Carissimi: -5% Development cost
  • Immensa Aeterni Dei: -10% Embracement cost, 25% Institution Spread
    Cardinals will spread institution if the institution has been embraced in a province of another Cardinal or the capital of the Curia(Rome).
  • Libertas ecclesiae: +20% Imperial Authority Growth
    Available if Emperor & Catholic Empire. (Not White Peace)
    All Catholic Nations in HRE get +15 towards approving HRE reforms
  • Dei Gratia Rex: +0.5 Yearly Absolutism & -2 Unrest in Catholic Provinces & -25% Drill Decay
Costs for these are a base of 1,000 ducats from the Papal Treasury, and increase as Reform Desire does. If devout Catholic nations wish to maintain the ability to empower their entire faith in the face of growing Reformation Desire, then they will have to expand Catholic lands or force convert their heretical neighbours.

The Pope himself has also been empowered with the option, but not the obligation, to play as a Kingmaker within the Catholic Faith. Cardinals will still spawn within Europe, but the Pope has the choice to directly appoint cardinals to other nations out of his own pocket.

20th Aug Appoint Card.jpg


The Papal State can assign Cardinals to nations who he thinks will best serve Catholicism. The cost for doing so is relative to the target nation's development and number of existing Cardinals. The Papal State will enjoy added influence to becoming the Papal Controller themselves through this action, and the target nation will have a longstanding boost to relations towards the Pope. Of course, the Papal States can assign Cardinals directly to their own land, but this action will come with a boost to their corruption. To make the traditionally invisible Cardinal mechanic somewhat more omnipresent, Cardinals are now visible on the (placeholder?) religious mapmode.

Finally the Pope can himself add directly to the Tithe with his own treasury. This may be of use for a particularly expansionist Pope who dismays other Christians by declaring themselves Kingdom of God. This Decision will no longer disable Curia mechanics.

Italy and Catholicism remain focus points for the upcoming Update and Expansion, and we're not done talking about them. When the situation in Europe gets a bit spicy thanks to theses being nailed onto doors, there may be more popping up, but for now that's [REDACTED]

Next week, we'll be talking about something completely different, and hopefully welcome news to those who have been wondering what's happening with that 64-bit support we were talking about earlier in the year.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Now you guys are tweaking religious mapmode, could you add holy sites on the religious mapmode too? Like the icon you see on the trade map where the centers of trade are and so on...
I know most of us know where Rome, Mecca and Jerusalem are on a map, but I don't know the Confucian or Hindu holy sites by heart, let alone the native American ones.
 
Quite underwhelming. Becoming a curia controller is kind of a crapshoot, and many lesser catholic nations have basically no chance at all. If you are a nation that can get the curia fairly consistently, it seems better to not pass any of the bulls except the imperial one if you are the emperor, as buffing the rest of Europe will basically make it more difficult for you to conquer them.

This also solidly undermines the papal ability to place cardinals for money. I'm paying for cardinals to get the curia to pass bulls to buff all of Europe to achieve... what?

The strongest general ability seems to be to halve the cost of buying stab with influence, but since you're giving that to all of Europe you're not getting ahead in any sense.

There should be something that can help combat the Reformation. Or just make the bonus exclusive to the nation that has the curia. Or replace those bonuses with ones that will make me happy that the rest of Europe isn't already under my boot.

Also, I couldn't find anything about whether this will be a free patch or DLC feature.
 
Now you guys are tweaking religious mapmode, could you add holy sites on the religious mapmode too? Like the icon you see on the trade map where the centers of trade are and so on...
I know most of us know where Rome, Mecca and Jerusalem are on a map, but I don't know the Confucian or Hindu holy sites by heart, let alone the native American ones.

Let's also not forget that one random Shia Site in Mesopotamia that I learned that even existed by having to convert it in my Hisn Kayfa game

Indicators would indeed be nice
 
Hello, I do not know if in previous development diary you have commented on it, but you can add a small bonus in the provinces where there is a cardinal, such as a -5% development cost and a +5 commercial power for example, something that exemplify the traffic of people and goods that could move this institution locally.

Very good changes boys
 
The strongest general ability seems to be to halve the cost of buying stab with influence, but since you're giving that to all of Europe you're not getting ahead in any sense.

It puts you incredibly ahead - because (afaik) the AI doesn't break truces. And enabling truce breaks is the strongest part of that ability. You can bank FOUR stability (assuming it's still a 200 influence cap). That's just insanely good for trucebreaking.

Also on this and a few of your other points - not 'all of europe' just those on your side of the reformation - you only boost your team in the battle for the fate of europe. The Curia is now officially a support class ;)
 
It puts you incredibly ahead - because (afaik) the AI doesn't break truces. And enabling truce breaks is the strongest part of that ability. You can bank FOUR stability (assuming it's still a 200 influence cap). That's just insanely good for trucebreaking.

stab increase costs 100 papal mana.
 
Will the leader of a non holy order Catholic theocracy be able to become a cardinal?
 
I’m underwhelmed. Its a good addition, but (and I get that the focus is on Europe) I don’t see any real improvements to non-European Catholics.
 
It puts you incredibly ahead - because (afaik) the AI doesn't break truces. And enabling truce breaks is the strongest part of that ability. You can bank FOUR stability (assuming it's still a 200 influence cap). That's just insanely good for trucebreaking.

Also on this and a few of your other points - not 'all of europe' just those on your side of the reformation - you only boost your team in the battle for the fate of europe. The Curia is now officially a support class ;)

But trucebreaking four times in a row will give you coalitions for decades. And the boosts are still incredibly underwhelming: the Reformation just popped? Better give the remaining catholics -5% dev cost!
 
These changes are cool, but a little lackluster. Other Christians have better bonuses. Little morale here, little discipline there, etc. The idea of all Catholics contributing together for some bonus is cool, but Coptic is already doing it. They are gaining real bonuses by holding key provinces together.
As my friend pointed out, it would be really cool and flavorful to have big military bonuses tied with a crusade mechanic against other religions. That would be something, because Protestantism is still better.
Except it would be totally wrong for this period. That kind of crusades were all long gone. The new kind was the ones like the crusade of varna, and the somewhat earlier one against the golden horde (though not explicitly called a crusade), coalitions of countries united in anjoint war effort. Not vast armies of volunteers and hopeful adventurers looking for glory.
I've seen enough flying circuses to know where this is going...
In an unexpected way?
The root issue of the Reformation spreading like a cancer throughout Europe is not due to the Reformation mechanics itself, but the religious conversion shenanigans that's happened since patch 1.26. In 1.25, the AI knew how to convert its provinces, but in 1.28 the AI cannot cope with the increased conversion costs and simply does not convert.
The entire reformation should be redone. The people's reformation (What the centre's of reformation represent) should be separated from the prince's reformation. The people's reformation should be a boon to prospective converts and a nuisance to those who want to stay loyal to Rome bit they should not have the power to flip a country against it's will. I don't think that ever happened. Sure it did lead sucesfulk separatism at times but no overturning of a government as far as i know, well unless you count the English civil war but thats nit really the same period.
Countries that fliped did so because they had something to gain from doing so and often they had to struggle as much with Catholics in their lands as the vlcdthoics had with protestants in theirs.
Catholicism is definitely looking far more appealing now, but

Does this mean we will keep seeing crusades all the way to the age of revolution? o_O
I hope not I hope it's one more age that you can keep them alive. It makes little sense for them to go past the age of reformation.
 
Just correcting your banking stuff. I don't think you're claiming that 4*100 <= 200, are you?
I assume that @CountCristo is referring to the ability to spend 200 papal mana to stab up four times after the Apostolicae Servitutis papal bull has reduced the cost to do so by half, to fifty apiece.
 
Lombardy is still a mess: anachronistic Como province including both Como - Milanese for the whole timeframe - and Ticino - Swiss for most of the timeframe and to modern days; and Valtellina still represented by a fat glob of wasteland. Not talking about the fact that disliking and refusing to say why on a reply to a question one has asked is in bad faith for a normal user, and even more so for a dev.
 
Please, not another development cost reduction! Even without burghers estate minigame, there is still a minimum of two things to keep in mind before going to increase development: state edict and university. Now if my nation is a papal controller I have to also remember to enact this bull. Also, it is easy to imagine a situation: become papal controller, enact the bull to not forget it later, then forget about the development being in war with, say, Ottomans, and just before I have 999 of diplo points Pope dies. That's just an example of the situation after usually stop playing EU at all for a long time - it's not my decision that leads to failure but a mere problem of keeping things in mind without proper visualization and/or reminding mechanics.