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EU4 - Development Diary - 20th of August 2019

Good day and welcome to another EUIV Dev Diary. This week we shall be tackling the Ecumenical matter of Catholicism in the game.

Catholicism is a bit of a funny one when it comes to religions in EUIV. When the game came out, it was one of the few religions that actually had mechanics attached to it, which helped in making it an attractive choice, both in terms of power for your nation, and flavour for your campaign. Over the many years of EUIV's updates and expansions, many religions across the world have been given their own mechanics and flavour, leaving Catholicism in the lurch. Its mechanisms have dulled in the face of those from other Christian denominations, and it is often blasted as a poor pick of religion for a budding European power, when Protestantisms and the Orthodox and Coptics are such tantalising alternatives.

In the upcoming European Expansion, we want to empower the Catholic faith, and bring a sparkle back to the appeal of remaining faithful to Rome, as well as allowing the Papal States themselves to thrive in the power and authority as being head of the faith, and really feel the impact of the faith being torn apart when reformation hits.

Firstly, as anybody knows, the root of all power is money. To this end, the upcoming expansion will be introducing the Papal Tithe. There will be a treasury in the game, not owned by any nation but belonging to the Curia itself.

As will be a common theme, numbers and UI are far from final

20th Aug Tithe.jpg


The Curia Treasury fattens up based on the number of Catholic nations in the world. The money is not taken from the nations, but rather is added to the Curia based on the amount of Crown Land held by the Clergy Estate in these nations. Nations who pass the Dissolution of Monasteries will stop their lands from contributing to the Tithe.

The Tithe can also be directly paid into by particularly pious nations. Nations can buy indulgence which pays directly into the Tithe, and in addition to feeling relief from avoiding purgatory, can enjoy added Papal Influence and temporary defence from Excommunication.

The Curia Treasury can of course be dipped into, and the privilege few who can do so are the lofty Curia Controllers themselves. Each Curia Controller can pass one Papal Bull in their tenure, which is an action the exclusively costs money from this Curia Treasury. Papal Bulls are unique actions that affect all of Catholicism:

  • Illius qui se pro divini: Enables Crusades after the Age limit is imposed.
  • Apostolicae Servitutis: 50% Cheaper Curia Powers (Levy Church Tax, Proclaim Holy War etc..)
  • Praeclara Carissimi: -5% Development cost
  • Immensa Aeterni Dei: -10% Embracement cost, 25% Institution Spread
    Cardinals will spread institution if the institution has been embraced in a province of another Cardinal or the capital of the Curia(Rome).
  • Libertas ecclesiae: +20% Imperial Authority Growth
    Available if Emperor & Catholic Empire. (Not White Peace)
    All Catholic Nations in HRE get +15 towards approving HRE reforms
  • Dei Gratia Rex: +0.5 Yearly Absolutism & -2 Unrest in Catholic Provinces & -25% Drill Decay
Costs for these are a base of 1,000 ducats from the Papal Treasury, and increase as Reform Desire does. If devout Catholic nations wish to maintain the ability to empower their entire faith in the face of growing Reformation Desire, then they will have to expand Catholic lands or force convert their heretical neighbours.

The Pope himself has also been empowered with the option, but not the obligation, to play as a Kingmaker within the Catholic Faith. Cardinals will still spawn within Europe, but the Pope has the choice to directly appoint cardinals to other nations out of his own pocket.

20th Aug Appoint Card.jpg


The Papal State can assign Cardinals to nations who he thinks will best serve Catholicism. The cost for doing so is relative to the target nation's development and number of existing Cardinals. The Papal State will enjoy added influence to becoming the Papal Controller themselves through this action, and the target nation will have a longstanding boost to relations towards the Pope. Of course, the Papal States can assign Cardinals directly to their own land, but this action will come with a boost to their corruption. To make the traditionally invisible Cardinal mechanic somewhat more omnipresent, Cardinals are now visible on the (placeholder?) religious mapmode.

Finally the Pope can himself add directly to the Tithe with his own treasury. This may be of use for a particularly expansionist Pope who dismays other Christians by declaring themselves Kingdom of God. This Decision will no longer disable Curia mechanics.

Italy and Catholicism remain focus points for the upcoming Update and Expansion, and we're not done talking about them. When the situation in Europe gets a bit spicy thanks to theses being nailed onto doors, there may be more popping up, but for now that's [REDACTED]

Next week, we'll be talking about something completely different, and hopefully welcome news to those who have been wondering what's happening with that 64-bit support we were talking about earlier in the year.
 
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How about putting Cardinals in Metropolitan Map mode? Currently it's only useful for orthodox, and if you change it's name slightly it could be used by catholics too.
Or maybe they could just consolidate the Metropolitan mode into the Religious mode and save us some clicks.
 

  • Libertas ecclesiae: +20% Imperial Authority Growth
    Available if Emperor & Catholic Empire. (Not White Peace)
    All Catholic Nations in HRE get +15 towards approving HRE reforms
Super OP but I don't have a problem with that, it is somewhat historical so OK i approve;)

The Curia Treasury can of course be dipped into, and the privilege few who can do so are the lofty Curia Controllers themselves. Each Curia Controller can pass one Papal Bull in their tenure, which is an action the exclusively costs money from this Curia Treasury. Papal Bulls are unique actions that affect all of Catholicism:

So let's say AI had made a bull, and now I am a papal controller can I pass another bull, or there can be only one active at a time? What is a period of time that a bull is active? Is there a limit how many bulls can be active at same time?

The Pope himself has also been empowered with the option, but not the obligation, to play as a Kingmaker within the Catholic Faith. Cardinals will still spawn within Europe, but the Pope has the choice to directly appoint cardinals to other nations out of his own pocket.

Kingmaker? So does it means we will be able to approve kings as papal states when they are chosen? Or is it limited only to cardinals?
 
Next week, we'll be talking about something completely different
I've seen enough flying circuses to know where this is going...
 
Nice changes. Though I must admit that personally the papal bulls you showed don't give me the feeling that catholicism is now on par with the other religions despite the claims in this dd preamble.
 
Will the Reformation still go unchecked unless RNG spawns it in a bad location and a player aggressively tries to eliminate CoR?

The root issue of the Reformation spreading like a cancer throughout Europe is not due to the Reformation mechanics itself, but the religious conversion shenanigans that's happened since patch 1.26. In 1.25, the AI knew how to convert its provinces, but in 1.28 the AI cannot cope with the increased conversion costs and simply does not convert.
 
The root issue of the Reformation spreading like a cancer throughout Europe is not due to the Reformation mechanics itself, but the religious conversion shenanigans that's happened since patch 1.26. In 1.25, the AI knew how to convert its provinces, but in 1.28 the AI cannot cope with the increased conversion costs and simply does not convert.

Yes, sure. But also religious zeal is a weird one. Imo it shouldn't exist to be honest.
 
It probably exists just to prevent OPMs from instantly reconverting to Catholicism.
It exists, so the HRE can convert en masse at all without a swarm of OPM's missionaries being able to simply cancel the Protestantism. Otherwise the reformation centres would have to have a crazy number of simultaneous conversions happening.
 
Catholicism is definitely looking far more appealing now, but
Illius qui se pro divini: Enables Crusades after the Age limit is imposed.
Does this mean we will keep seeing crusades all the way to the age of revolution? o_O
 
Are there plans to make the Counter-Reformation have an actual impact?
Hmm.. like spawning some Catholic CoR's to battle it out with the Protestant/Reformed ones? o_O
 
I have a suggestion regarding a new sub-mechanic tied to these new Catholic Mechanics, which is how much a Catholic tag will partake in Curia and Papal matters. Like the Crusaders should be deeply invested, while France less so? Like, how "Pious" each state is? That would be nice, and depending on how each campaign evolves this amount per nation could dynamically change, Personality wise Zealots should indulge heavily while Sinners not at all, I believe this would be a nice mechanic to have.
 
I'm glad that Catholicism is getting some more extra flavor and buffs... and also that the Pope is getting some more special mechanics.

I hoped that the Pope would get some more fun mechanics to play with though. Paying 50+ gold and losing cardinal competition edge for 15 relationship boost doesn't seem very interesting. If the papal government is going to remain weak, it should at least get some more interesting mechanics to play with.

Not being able to reach Empire rank really hurts the Pope late game, since it means he cannot form a Latin cultural union.

In EU3, the Kingdom of God at least makes all Latin cultures accepted. Can't we also give the Kingdom of God pseudo Empire-like powers in Eu4?

I might be a bit biased since I always thought it was fun having some old dude with a funny looking hat, leading an invasion.
 
These changes are cool, but a little lackluster. Other Christians have better bonuses. Little morale here, little discipline there, etc. The idea of all Catholics contributing together for some bonus is cool, but Coptic is already doing it. They are gaining real bonuses by holding key provinces together.
As my friend pointed out, it would be really cool and flavorful to have big military bonuses tied with a crusade mechanic against other religions. That would be something, because Protestantism is still better.

Runite Drill said:
hmm without military bonus or some uniquestuff for other nations favoured to stay catholic like with castille it'll be bad anyway

While i wouldn't be against adding some military bonus buffs to catholicism (expecially if something related to crusades and holy wars) since most other religions have those as well and it would make sense from a historical persepective. I wouldn't say the lack of a military bonus makes this religion that unapealing. Expecially taken in consideration the fact that France, Spain and Poland, some of Europe's big catholic bois already have quite powerful military ideas (Hungary is not bad either) and age bonuses. So its not like they necessarily need more buffs to be able to keep up military.
And the catholics who don't have any military buffs whatsoever will still be laughably weak even with a small religious military buff.
 
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Others may focus on the balance or the fun of these mechanical changes, while all I want, is for Duplos head to remain the symbol of cardinals in that mapmode. (Maybe in a simplified way, draw him with a cardinal-hat instead of using a photo)
 
While i wouldn't be against adding some military bonus buffs to catholicism (expecially if something related to crusades and holy wars) since most other religions have those as well and it would make sense from a historical persepective. I wouldn't say the lack of a military bonus makes this religion that unapealing. Expecially taken in consideration the fact that France, Spain and Poland, some of Europe's big catholic bois already have quite powerful military ideas (Hungary is not bad either) and age bonuses. So its not like they necessarily need more buffs to be able to keep up military.
And the catholics who don't have any military buffs whatsoever will still be laughably weak even with a small religious military buff.
[sad Portuguese noises]
 
Could we by any chance get an iconic red cardinal hat to represent them on the religious map rather than the current bishop's mitre?

Others may focus on the balance or the fun of these mechanical changes, while all I want, is for Duplos head to remain the symbol of cardinals in that mapmode. (Maybe in a simplified way, draw him with a cardinal-hat instead of using a photo)

As much as I would love to see my face immortalized in a mechanic that is so dear to me, I'm afraid that we are talking about a coder-made placeholder, waiting for true art.