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Was the rest of the forum really that pissed off?
Yeah I know; which was a huge reason for why I surrendered. I simply wouldn't find it fun to use several hours to try and clear myself when firstly people weren't active and secondly the lovers would ujst kill us both to me certain of winning.
It indeed is that which really makes this game a battle of wits. Otherwise it gets almost trivial, since if the village isn't active you are almost certain to win barring seer scanning.
Also do I detect some Jante law, since you removed your name from my list? It can shortly be summarised as 'you are not to think you're anyone special or that you're better than us.' Well it is best to be humble so I guess that is a good thing.
Looks like you are right; don't know why I thought I could scan for sorc then.
You mean this one you made on day three 14 minutes before being lynched?
enkhuush said:
Well firstly I didn't see the order since my graphics card fucked up; secondly I would never have send in an order on randy on day 3 unless I really suspected him of being from the other pack or an important goodie. Had I seen it I might have changed it to tamius since one person in the pack shouldn't dictate the hunts.
Nah, nothing quite like that. Pride is certainly one of my besetting sins. I simply don't regard lynching or otherwise defeating myself as much of a challenge.
Glad to see people enjoyed this!
As the next game won't be for a while, I figured I could find the time to write a Mini-GM-AAR. Basically just the set-up with some comments where needed:
First off, I based this on the set-up of PBTCM, as that one was pretty closely fought(ended with only 1 person standing, all 3 sides had at least one member still alive and with a chance of winning on the very last day) and I felt it had good potential. It had around the same number of players too(24 vs 25 for when I made this game's set-up)
I liked the idea of unsymmetrical packs. Obviously symmetrical ones are easier to balance but having each pack be in a different situation with different strengths and weaknesses is interesting, I find. In addition, I don't really like some of the assumptions you can make with identical packs(Pack #1 had a brutal, this guy is brutal too, this means he must be of pack #2!)
I also don't like unaligned cultists or sorcerers that much. Why? Because for every one of those you add you have to remove a member of the original packs to keep game balance alright, so the question is, would I rather have a sorcerer or an extra wolf in pack #2? I prefer aligned baddies, as unaligned ones don't really help with analysis, and also don't help the wolves steering the vote, until they attach to a pack. Basically, I find attached baddies make for more strategic play vs unattached ones(which offer an extra element of randomness, and I already have lots of that with all the traits I've put in), so I'd generally go for them.
So I took last game's set up and tried to keep the stuff I found made for a fun game, remove the stuff I thought wasn't, and tried to focus on a set-up that would encourage smart play. (More about that in the more detailed roles break-down). There was one extra player here so obviously I made him a villager, ten baddies in a 25 player game is far too much, but I tried to make the wolf packs slightly stronger to compensate. Then sbr showed up, so I added a traitless villager(despite the fact that invite PMs - I sent ~50 of those - specifically promised there wouldn't be any), and removed another one's blessed status(I know, it doesn't quite even out, but I had feared the village was underpowered anyway)
I also don't think anyone noticed but I temporarily edited-out the set-up from my post in PBTCM, because I felt it was still too similar to this one and I didn't want people finding the similarities and using it to make assumptions, true or false.
So here's what we ended up with:
Baddie pack #1:
-Werewolf leader with sorcerous powers: 2kNikk
Added a leader trait(Which was originally held by one of the rivals) to give the smaller pack a boost. Didn't really come in handy though. The sorc powers however hit the priest and provided an opportunity to off both an important goodie and a rival pack member, which was just as I'd hoped.
-Werewolf PM Voter: Cymsdale
Died night 0 by hitting one of only 3 OEOs
-Brutal Cultist: Johho
Someone noted last game that the brutal trait, while powerful, didn't really favor the pack that it was in as much as it favors all baddies in general as it is generally used to off known goodies(which is what happened). Still, if it had come to a confrontation between the two packs, things could have been different.
-Blessed infiltrator cultist: Arkasas
The infiltrator trait was supposed to be used to help find and avoid OEOs, though for maximum efficiency I should have let the other pack start the hunts(had the same problem last game, thought I'd correct it for this one, then forgot about it). Either way, it wouldn't have helped that much since Arkasas thought it was a single use power and didn't start using it until he knew otherwise on night 2.
Comments: Seemed small but solid. Leader, brutal and infiltrator are all quite useful traits, and having no lovers or rivals, and an ability to be safer-than-average against OEOs, I thought this one was pretty safe. Arkasas was scanned by the priest before his death, the priest passed his name to his lover, but the lover didn't pass on the name to the pack(and neither did he tell them sbr was the priest, IIRC), and yet he was randomly hunted one night and saved by the fact he was blessed. Just thought it was interesting how he survived all that bad luck only to die by lynching.
Some Pack PMs:
Standing hunt order:
Johho's standing brutal order:
sbr the priest:
Baddie pack #2:
-Werewolf with sorcerous powers: Wagonlitz
Just a slightly less powerful version of the other pack's lead werewolf
-Werewolf PM Voter: Jonti
I never thought the PM Voter trait would help a pack that much. And by mistake :rofl:
-Werewolf with healing powers: DutchGuy
Used healing powers on jonti the night he himself was hunted(night 6). Not much else.
-Jester cultist with a lover: Falc
I thought this would be interesting, and it sure was! I saw it as both a blessing and a curse for the pack. On the one hand they could get the priest to work with them. On the other Falc could betray them for the goodie side, and sbr dying would also kill his lover(which is what happened). sbr was planning to scan Falc night 0, but as Falc later admitted to being a cultist anyway he cancelled that order, but didn't let him know he was the priest until a few days later(same day he told him he had scanned Arkasas as a cultist). Again, the pack knew neither that nor even the fact that sbr was the priest, I liked the bit of secrecy that was kept around the whole thing.
-Cultist with infiltrating powers: Enkhuush
Used up on Kaetje presumably to find out what trait she had won. Found out she was an assassin instead, which is how the rest of the pack knew.
General comments: The opposite of the last pack, lots of power, but that power was very volatile, with plenty of single use traits and a lover that could have jumped ship.
Some general pack PMs:
The lover issue:
Standing hunt order:
How the seer got to die:
The Kaetje issue(+Arkasas hunt):
Lover business:
Important goodies:
-Seer: Rovsea
Scanned jonti night 0, but died too early to make use of that
-Blessed priest: sbr
I wish I hadn't made him blessed, this wasted the red pack a hunt despite the fact that they had done the right thing by finding and hunting the priest. But oh well, it was still worth it.
-Spiritually attuned Guardian Angel who almost never sent in an order: Kaisersohaib
Seriously, dude!
-One Eye Open Apprentice: Aedan, of course.
Villagers:
-The one with one eye open: Lemeard
Hunted night 0. Hard luck to both him and the red pack
-The one with assassination and priestly powers: Kaetje
Accidentally lynched on the day she was supposed to use both her powers
-The one with seerish powers: Marty
Scanned jonti as well. But died on the very same night.
-The one with priestly powers and SA: Madchemist
Used up on Tamius early on(to avoid being robbed because robber was in the rules), he then contacted him informing him of that and also contacted Randakar about it. I suppose randakar has already posted those PMs?
-The cursed sorcerous powers one with a Rival:
The sorc powers were supposed to help an infiltrator deduce he was cursed(it was the same way during PBTCM too), but he was never scanned. Survived pretty long and could have won the blue pack the game had he been hunted on a certain night, but wasn't.
Some PMs:
-The one that's in distress but also blessed and with seerish powers: Suirantes
-The other one that's in distress but this time is a distille and with healing powers: LatinKaiser
-The lovers, one blessed, one brutal: Happycats and Tamius, respectively
Added an element of uncertainty that survived till the end game. On the one hand they knew they could trust each other and provided a significant boost to the goodie side, on the other hand, had Tamius been hunted, the game would have ended on night 8(he was on the list before Wagonlitz decided on a no hunt)
Lover hunt PMs:
I was not CC'd on the PMs between the lovers and madchemist
-The other one with a rival, who's also a PM Voter and Innkeeper: Randakar
-The one with the second deadly sin(robber): Alxeu
Died before he could make use of this in interesting ways
-The other one eye open: Dadarian
Which is why you didn't want him to die by lynching!
-The traitless one: Gen. Skobelev
...This took way longer than I'd wanted it to
PS: And I apologize for the quality of the PMs, I don't have any of them still in my forum inbox so I have to copy them from my email inbox
As the next game won't be for a while, I figured I could find the time to write a Mini-GM-AAR. Basically just the set-up with some comments where needed:
First off, I based this on the set-up of PBTCM, as that one was pretty closely fought(ended with only 1 person standing, all 3 sides had at least one member still alive and with a chance of winning on the very last day) and I felt it had good potential. It had around the same number of players too(24 vs 25 for when I made this game's set-up)
I liked the idea of unsymmetrical packs. Obviously symmetrical ones are easier to balance but having each pack be in a different situation with different strengths and weaknesses is interesting, I find. In addition, I don't really like some of the assumptions you can make with identical packs(Pack #1 had a brutal, this guy is brutal too, this means he must be of pack #2!)
I also don't like unaligned cultists or sorcerers that much. Why? Because for every one of those you add you have to remove a member of the original packs to keep game balance alright, so the question is, would I rather have a sorcerer or an extra wolf in pack #2? I prefer aligned baddies, as unaligned ones don't really help with analysis, and also don't help the wolves steering the vote, until they attach to a pack. Basically, I find attached baddies make for more strategic play vs unattached ones(which offer an extra element of randomness, and I already have lots of that with all the traits I've put in), so I'd generally go for them.
So I took last game's set up and tried to keep the stuff I found made for a fun game, remove the stuff I thought wasn't, and tried to focus on a set-up that would encourage smart play. (More about that in the more detailed roles break-down). There was one extra player here so obviously I made him a villager, ten baddies in a 25 player game is far too much, but I tried to make the wolf packs slightly stronger to compensate. Then sbr showed up, so I added a traitless villager(despite the fact that invite PMs - I sent ~50 of those - specifically promised there wouldn't be any
), and removed another one's blessed status(I know, it doesn't quite even out, but I had feared the village was underpowered anyway)I also don't think anyone noticed but I temporarily edited-out the set-up from my post in PBTCM, because I felt it was still too similar to this one and I didn't want people finding the similarities and using it to make assumptions, true or false.
So here's what we ended up with:
Baddie pack #1:
-Werewolf leader with sorcerous powers: 2kNikk
Added a leader trait(Which was originally held by one of the rivals) to give the smaller pack a boost. Didn't really come in handy though. The sorc powers however hit the priest and provided an opportunity to off both an important goodie and a rival pack member, which was just as I'd hoped.
-Werewolf PM Voter: Cymsdale
Died night 0 by hitting one of only 3 OEOs
-Brutal Cultist: Johho
Someone noted last game that the brutal trait, while powerful, didn't really favor the pack that it was in as much as it favors all baddies in general as it is generally used to off known goodies(which is what happened). Still, if it had come to a confrontation between the two packs, things could have been different.
-Blessed infiltrator cultist: Arkasas
The infiltrator trait was supposed to be used to help find and avoid OEOs, though for maximum efficiency I should have let the other pack start the hunts(had the same problem last game, thought I'd correct it for this one, then forgot about it). Either way, it wouldn't have helped that much since Arkasas thought it was a single use power and didn't start using it until he knew otherwise on night 2.
Comments: Seemed small but solid. Leader, brutal and infiltrator are all quite useful traits, and having no lovers or rivals, and an ability to be safer-than-average against OEOs, I thought this one was pretty safe. Arkasas was scanned by the priest before his death, the priest passed his name to his lover, but the lover didn't pass on the name to the pack(and neither did he tell them sbr was the priest, IIRC), and yet he was randomly hunted one night and saved by the fact he was blessed. Just thought it was interesting how he survived all that bad luck only to die by lynching.
Some Pack PMs:
Standing hunt order:
If no hunt order is given, please choose the first alive player on this list.
1-Lemeard
24-Marty99
11-Suirantes
21-Kaisersohaib
18-Xarkan
16-LatinKaiser as Count Von Count.
26-Sbr
9-Madchemist as a reincarnation of Pelayo
10-Rovsea
2-DutchGuy as Robert Folcwalding, Unlanded descendant of the pagan Frisian kings.
14-Randakar
8-Wagonlitz
7-Alxeu as Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar (El Cid)
4-Gen. Skobelev as Charles II, the Bewitched.
6-Aedan
12-Falc
17-Tamius23
20-Enkhuush as Alfonso VI
13-happycats517
22-Jonti-h
25-Kaetje
19-Dadarian as Francisco Cortez
1-Lemeard
24-Marty99
11-Suirantes
21-Kaisersohaib
18-Xarkan
16-LatinKaiser as Count Von Count.
26-Sbr
9-Madchemist as a reincarnation of Pelayo
10-Rovsea
2-DutchGuy as Robert Folcwalding, Unlanded descendant of the pagan Frisian kings.
14-Randakar
8-Wagonlitz
7-Alxeu as Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar (El Cid)
4-Gen. Skobelev as Charles II, the Bewitched.
6-Aedan
12-Falc
17-Tamius23
20-Enkhuush as Alfonso VI
13-happycats517
22-Jonti-h
25-Kaetje
19-Dadarian as Francisco Cortez
24-Marty99
22-Jonti-h
12-Falc
11-Suirantes
21-Kaisersohaib
18-Xarkan
26-Sbr
9-Madchemist as a reincarnation of Pelayo
10-Rovsea
2-DutchGuy as Robert Folcwalding, Unlanded descendant of the pagan Frisian kings.
7-Alxeu as Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar (El Cid)
19-Dadarian as Francisco Cortez
6-Aedan
17-Tamius23
20-Enkhuush as Alfonso VI
14-Randakar
8-Wagonlitz
16-LatinKaiser as Count Von Count.
25-Kaetje
4-Gen. Skobelev as Charles II, the Bewitched.
13-happycats517
22-Jonti-h
12-Falc
11-Suirantes
21-Kaisersohaib
18-Xarkan
26-Sbr
9-Madchemist as a reincarnation of Pelayo
10-Rovsea
2-DutchGuy as Robert Folcwalding, Unlanded descendant of the pagan Frisian kings.
7-Alxeu as Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar (El Cid)
19-Dadarian as Francisco Cortez
6-Aedan
17-Tamius23
20-Enkhuush as Alfonso VI
14-Randakar
8-Wagonlitz
16-LatinKaiser as Count Von Count.
25-Kaetje
4-Gen. Skobelev as Charles II, the Bewitched.
13-happycats517
sbr the priest:
---Quote (Originally by 2kNikk)---
Hey.
sbr is Priest.
---End Quote---
Wow, that's brilliant! You got lucky with your sorcerous powers scan, I take it?
Then I suggest you send in a hunt order by PM to Panzer Commader to eat him. It is our hunt night tonight. Since you are our sole remaining wolf I think you need to be the one to send the order.
Preferably you phrase it something like this:
hunt sbr
backup hunt X
2nd backup hunt Y
Just in case sbr gets lynched so we at least hunt someone.(Not shown: Johho sending sbr to the top of his brutal list and telling Arkasas his power is not single use)
Hey.
sbr is Priest.
---End Quote---
Wow, that's brilliant! You got lucky with your sorcerous powers scan, I take it?
Then I suggest you send in a hunt order by PM to Panzer Commader to eat him. It is our hunt night tonight. Since you are our sole remaining wolf I think you need to be the one to send the order.
Preferably you phrase it something like this:
hunt sbr
backup hunt X
2nd backup hunt Y
Just in case sbr gets lynched so we at least hunt someone.(Not shown: Johho sending sbr to the top of his brutal list and telling Arkasas his power is not single use)
-Werewolf with sorcerous powers: Wagonlitz
Just a slightly less powerful version of the other pack's lead werewolf
-Werewolf PM Voter: Jonti
I never thought the PM Voter trait would help a pack that much. And by mistake :rofl:
-Werewolf with healing powers: DutchGuy
Used healing powers on jonti the night he himself was hunted(night 6). Not much else.
-Jester cultist with a lover: Falc
I thought this would be interesting, and it sure was! I saw it as both a blessing and a curse for the pack. On the one hand they could get the priest to work with them. On the other Falc could betray them for the goodie side, and sbr dying would also kill his lover(which is what happened). sbr was planning to scan Falc night 0, but as Falc later admitted to being a cultist anyway he cancelled that order, but didn't let him know he was the priest until a few days later(same day he told him he had scanned Arkasas as a cultist). Again, the pack knew neither that nor even the fact that sbr was the priest, I liked the bit of secrecy that was kept around the whole thing.
-Cultist with infiltrating powers: Enkhuush
Used up on Kaetje presumably to find out what trait she had won. Found out she was an assassin instead, which is how the rest of the pack knew.
General comments: The opposite of the last pack, lots of power, but that power was very volatile, with plenty of single use traits and a lover that could have jumped ship.
Some general pack PMs:
The lover issue:
---Quote (Originally by jonti-h)---
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
In case you guys haven't seen your pack is actually 6 people. Take a detailed look on this games lover:
---Quote (Originally by ze rules)---
Lovers: They are given each others' name at the start and told they are lovers. They do not, however, know each other's roles or traits, but do know they are in love. If a lover dies, the other will die of broken heart alongside him. If both lovers survive the game however, both will win, presuming at least one is on the winning side.
---End Quote---
As you can see if we win sbr will win with us---Falc will also will with sbr if, so that could get dangerous, but there is no way to prevent that without starting interpack murdering, which we won't.
So Falc should most definitely tell sbr about being a wolf and show him that he wins with us, if we win. He probably shouldn't give sbr our names though.
---End Quote---
Option A: there's a second Lover set out there cultist+villager
Option B: sbr is actually in the other pack...
Do we take that risk?
---End Quote---
I know sbr might very well be in the other pack, but he could just as well be a villager---perhaps an important one?---since you also can win with the village and betray us if we are down to you and just one other.
But yes because sbr could be in the other pack he shouldn't get any other names than yours unless strictly necessary---i.e. as a last resort to safe somebody from a lynch or something similar and then he should only get the relevant name.
You should probably tell him your role and perhaps also that you are a jester. Both of you die if one dies after all, so you cannot betray each other---lets hope sbr doesn't lie about his role/traits.
jonti what do you think Falc should do?
Panzer can the jester jest every night, but not on a person he already has played a jest with, or can he only jest once throughout the game? There is some ambiguity in the rules with regard to that.
---End Quote---
I think there's a high chance of sbr being either another wolf or an important goodie, so it would be a risk to tell him you're a wolf, Falc.
Maybe try to sound him out a bit, see if you can get a handle on what his role is?
AFAIK I can send a private vote whenever I want to, got to think about how to use it without self-outing
---End Quote---
I don't see how it can be dangerous if sbr knows Falc is a wolf even if sbr is a wolf or important goodie; he cannot kill Falc without dieing himself after all. Unless what you meant is that the other pack/JL then can use Falcs behaviour to try and deduce his packmates. So yeah probably best to keep it secret initially.
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
In case you guys haven't seen your pack is actually 6 people. Take a detailed look on this games lover:
---Quote (Originally by ze rules)---
Lovers: They are given each others' name at the start and told they are lovers. They do not, however, know each other's roles or traits, but do know they are in love. If a lover dies, the other will die of broken heart alongside him. If both lovers survive the game however, both will win, presuming at least one is on the winning side.
---End Quote---
As you can see if we win sbr will win with us---Falc will also will with sbr if, so that could get dangerous, but there is no way to prevent that without starting interpack murdering, which we won't.
So Falc should most definitely tell sbr about being a wolf and show him that he wins with us, if we win. He probably shouldn't give sbr our names though.
---End Quote---
Option A: there's a second Lover set out there cultist+villager
Option B: sbr is actually in the other pack...
Do we take that risk?
---End Quote---
I know sbr might very well be in the other pack, but he could just as well be a villager---perhaps an important one?---since you also can win with the village and betray us if we are down to you and just one other.
But yes because sbr could be in the other pack he shouldn't get any other names than yours unless strictly necessary---i.e. as a last resort to safe somebody from a lynch or something similar and then he should only get the relevant name.
You should probably tell him your role and perhaps also that you are a jester. Both of you die if one dies after all, so you cannot betray each other---lets hope sbr doesn't lie about his role/traits.
jonti what do you think Falc should do?
Panzer can the jester jest every night, but not on a person he already has played a jest with, or can he only jest once throughout the game? There is some ambiguity in the rules with regard to that.
---End Quote---
I think there's a high chance of sbr being either another wolf or an important goodie, so it would be a risk to tell him you're a wolf, Falc.
Maybe try to sound him out a bit, see if you can get a handle on what his role is?
AFAIK I can send a private vote whenever I want to, got to think about how to use it without self-outing
---End Quote---
I don't see how it can be dangerous if sbr knows Falc is a wolf even if sbr is a wolf or important goodie; he cannot kill Falc without dieing himself after all. Unless what you meant is that the other pack/JL then can use Falcs behaviour to try and deduce his packmates. So yeah probably best to keep it secret initially.
---Quote (Originally by Panzer Commader)---
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
We need a standing list; do you guys have anything against this?
*This is a standing list valid on night on which we should hunt---odd nights and even after the other pack is dead; it should come into effect in case we haven't send in an order on abovementioned nights.
Hunt Dadarian as Francisco Cortez
Backup Cymsdale
Backup Rovsea
Backup Alxeu as Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar (El Cid)
Backup Arkasas
Backup Kaisersohaib
Backup Suirantes
Backup LatinKaiser as Count Von Count.
Backup 2KNikk
Backup Aedan
Backup Xarkan
Backup happycats517
Backup Tamius23
Backup Lemeard
Backup Kaetje
Backup Madchemist as a reincarnation of Pelayo
Backup Gen. Skobelev as Charles II, the Bewitched.
Backup Randakar
Backup Johho as Alonzo Enfanto de la Patria.
Backup Marty99
*
By the way Panzer you are missing an e in Cymsdale on the rooster.
Panzer can jonti send in PM votes every night if he so chooses? According to the rules he can, but that may be an error.
---End Quote---
Every night, no limits.
---End Quote---
Since Panzer didn't cc you guys I will forward it to you. This is important, since it means jonti can really snipe every night; probably shouldn't to avoid suspicion, but it could probably be used in certain situations without causing suspicion. Like say you have already voted somebody in a two person race and the other guy is more suspicious; you then PM snipe the other guy, he is lynched and from the other pack and you won't get suspicious.
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
We need a standing list; do you guys have anything against this?
*This is a standing list valid on night on which we should hunt---odd nights and even after the other pack is dead; it should come into effect in case we haven't send in an order on abovementioned nights.
Hunt Dadarian as Francisco Cortez
Backup Cymsdale
Backup Rovsea
Backup Alxeu as Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar (El Cid)
Backup Arkasas
Backup Kaisersohaib
Backup Suirantes
Backup LatinKaiser as Count Von Count.
Backup 2KNikk
Backup Aedan
Backup Xarkan
Backup happycats517
Backup Tamius23
Backup Lemeard
Backup Kaetje
Backup Madchemist as a reincarnation of Pelayo
Backup Gen. Skobelev as Charles II, the Bewitched.
Backup Randakar
Backup Johho as Alonzo Enfanto de la Patria.
Backup Marty99
*
By the way Panzer you are missing an e in Cymsdale on the rooster.
Panzer can jonti send in PM votes every night if he so chooses? According to the rules he can, but that may be an error.
---End Quote---
Every night, no limits.
---End Quote---
Since Panzer didn't cc you guys I will forward it to you. This is important, since it means jonti can really snipe every night; probably shouldn't to avoid suspicion, but it could probably be used in certain situations without causing suspicion. Like say you have already voted somebody in a two person race and the other guy is more suspicious; you then PM snipe the other guy, he is lynched and from the other pack and you won't get suspicious.
Deadline is quickly approaching, so we need to consider who to hunt tonight; since we don't have any suspicions yet I propose just to base it on the standing list. I also don't think it would be wise to hunt the frontrunners from the top of the list, since those people have a tendency to be run up on future days.
I therefore propose:
*Hunt Rovsea
Backup Arkasas
Backup Kaisersohaib
Backup Suirantes*
I.e. the top of the standing list minus Dadarian and alxeu, since they are in the running. What do people day to this?
I therefore propose:
*Hunt Rovsea
Backup Arkasas
Backup Kaisersohaib
Backup Suirantes*
I.e. the top of the standing list minus Dadarian and alxeu, since they are in the running. What do people day to this?
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
---Quote (Originally by jonti-h)---
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
Wuhuu.
Best result at all; I am really glad Dadarian was run up. Lets hope Rovsea didn't have an apprentice; don't make a videonfan.
---End Quote---
It was an excellent result, especially so early in the game which means it's pretty unlikely that he's going to have an apprentice.
Definitely makes the game a bit easier.
And as Kaetje's an assassin, I guess that sorts out our next meal for us, right? Better to remove all threats and all that.
One day they'll have a "reply all" button on these damn PMs....
---End Quote---
Any chance we could use her to our advantage before hunting her?
---End Quote---
I also think she could be advantageous if played correctly. As I haven't had the possibility to look at the game for ~36 hours I am not up to speed. Looking at yesterdays update nothing much seems to have happened, so unless you guys think Kaetje should be culled immediately---she doesn't have to be OEO, but she might be---I will follow the standing list.
*
Hunt Arkasas
Backup Kaisersohaib
Backup LatinKaiser as Count Von Count.
Backup 2KNikk
*
Feel free to change it if you like; I just wanted to send in an order, since it is bad playing not sending in an order even though we have a standing list. Most likely won't be unline anymore before deadline.
---Quote (Originally by jonti-h)---
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
Wuhuu.
Best result at all; I am really glad Dadarian was run up. Lets hope Rovsea didn't have an apprentice; don't make a videonfan.
---End Quote---
It was an excellent result, especially so early in the game which means it's pretty unlikely that he's going to have an apprentice.
Definitely makes the game a bit easier.
And as Kaetje's an assassin, I guess that sorts out our next meal for us, right? Better to remove all threats and all that.
One day they'll have a "reply all" button on these damn PMs....
---End Quote---
Any chance we could use her to our advantage before hunting her?
---End Quote---
I also think she could be advantageous if played correctly. As I haven't had the possibility to look at the game for ~36 hours I am not up to speed. Looking at yesterdays update nothing much seems to have happened, so unless you guys think Kaetje should be culled immediately---she doesn't have to be OEO, but she might be---I will follow the standing list.
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Hunt Arkasas
Backup Kaisersohaib
Backup LatinKaiser as Count Von Count.
Backup 2KNikk
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Feel free to change it if you like; I just wanted to send in an order, since it is bad playing not sending in an order even though we have a standing list. Most likely won't be unline anymore before deadline.
Never been a lover, so...
If sbr is a goodie, then the only way his side can win is by eliminating all the baddies. But that means I'd have to be dead, which means sbr as well.
So, let's say I'm the last baddie left alive, do the goodies win and I win along with sbr?(The answer was yes)
If sbr is a goodie, then the only way his side can win is by eliminating all the baddies. But that means I'd have to be dead, which means sbr as well.
So, let's say I'm the last baddie left alive, do the goodies win and I win along with sbr?(The answer was yes)
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
---Quote (Originally by sbr)---
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
---Quote (Originally by sbr)---
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
One other bit of information you might need: Cymsdale was not a packmate of mine
---End Quote---
How about enkhuush and Arkansas, are either of them in your pack?
---End Quote---
Yes, Enkhuush was in my pack.
Arkasas isn't. Why are you asking?
---End Quote---
He is a cultist of course.
---End Quote---
Oh really? How did you find out?
---End Quote---
Oh yeah, I forgot you didn't know.
I'm the Priest. Apparently Panzer thinks he's pretty cute.
---Quote (Originally by sbr)---
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
---Quote (Originally by sbr)---
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
One other bit of information you might need: Cymsdale was not a packmate of mine
---End Quote---
How about enkhuush and Arkansas, are either of them in your pack?
---End Quote---
Yes, Enkhuush was in my pack.
Arkasas isn't. Why are you asking?
---End Quote---
He is a cultist of course.
---End Quote---
Oh really? How did you find out?
---End Quote---
Oh yeah, I forgot you didn't know.
I'm the Priest. Apparently Panzer thinks he's pretty cute.
-Seer: Rovsea
Scanned jonti night 0, but died too early to make use of that
-Blessed priest: sbr
I wish I hadn't made him blessed, this wasted the red pack a hunt despite the fact that they had done the right thing by finding and hunting the priest. But oh well, it was still worth it.
-Spiritually attuned Guardian Angel who almost never sent in an order: Kaisersohaib
Seriously, dude!
-One Eye Open Apprentice: Aedan, of course.
Villagers:
-The one with one eye open: Lemeard
Hunted night 0. Hard luck to both him and the red pack
-The one with assassination and priestly powers: Kaetje
Accidentally lynched on the day she was supposed to use both her powers
-The one with seerish powers: Marty
Scanned jonti as well. But died on the very same night.
-The one with priestly powers and SA: Madchemist
Used up on Tamius early on(to avoid being robbed because robber was in the rules), he then contacted him informing him of that and also contacted Randakar about it. I suppose randakar has already posted those PMs?
-The cursed sorcerous powers one with a Rival:
The sorc powers were supposed to help an infiltrator deduce he was cursed(it was the same way during PBTCM too), but he was never scanned. Survived pretty long and could have won the blue pack the game had he been hunted on a certain night, but wasn't.
Some PMs:
---Quote (Originally by Xarkan)---
---Quote (Originally by randakar)---
---Quote (Originally by Xarkan)---
---Quote (Originally by randakar)---
---Quote (Originally by Xarkan)---
Oh sure, vote me until it matters.
---End Quote---
How about a truce? This is a long game, and I kinda doubt you're a wolf or I'd be one eye open or something. So in a sense you're more likely to be good than most.
---End Quote---
That makes sense to me. My comment really had nothing to do with being rivals, was just making friendly banter. And you are correct, I am a villager with rival being my only non-hidden trait.
---End Quote---
Ok. Well, I am only willing to admit to being a villager with a rival too. ;-)
---End Quote---
Is it possible for there to be one rival good and one rival bad? Would seem horribly unfair to the goodie rival, as they could be hunted easily.
---End Quote---
Yes. That has been done.
However, if that happens there usually is some kind of twist to it - the villager in question is one eye open, or cursed, or *something* to make killing that rival through hunting a terribly unsensible thing to do.
Never say never, though. Anything is possible, it's just not all equally likely.
So for now I'm putting you in the 'good' column.
---Quote (Originally by randakar)---
---Quote (Originally by Xarkan)---
---Quote (Originally by randakar)---
---Quote (Originally by Xarkan)---
Oh sure, vote me until it matters.
---End Quote---
How about a truce? This is a long game, and I kinda doubt you're a wolf or I'd be one eye open or something. So in a sense you're more likely to be good than most.
---End Quote---
That makes sense to me. My comment really had nothing to do with being rivals, was just making friendly banter.
And you are correct, I am a villager with rival being my only non-hidden trait.---End Quote---
Ok. Well, I am only willing to admit to being a villager with a rival too. ;-)
---End Quote---
Is it possible for there to be one rival good and one rival bad? Would seem horribly unfair to the goodie rival, as they could be hunted easily.
---End Quote---
Yes. That has been done.
However, if that happens there usually is some kind of twist to it - the villager in question is one eye open, or cursed, or *something* to make killing that rival through hunting a terribly unsensible thing to do.
Never say never, though. Anything is possible, it's just not all equally likely.
So for now I'm putting you in the 'good' column.
-The other one that's in distress but this time is a distille and with healing powers: LatinKaiser
-The lovers, one blessed, one brutal: Happycats and Tamius, respectively
Added an element of uncertainty that survived till the end game. On the one hand they knew they could trust each other and provided a significant boost to the goodie side, on the other hand, had Tamius been hunted, the game would have ended on night 8(he was on the list before Wagonlitz decided on a no hunt)
Lover hunt PMs:
---Quote (Originally by jonti-h)---
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
---Quote (Originally by jonti-h)---
OK let's hope we can do this.
Hunt Tamius, backup Madchemist, backup happycats
---End Quote---
I have actually considered doing a no hunt just to not hit a OEO; I doubt there is another one, but it would be really annoying to lynch one of the villagers and then not reach parity because we hit a OEO. If I die today then doing a no hunt would also make madchemist more supicious, since he is known ot have deliberately made a no hunt before to avoid bad a witness. If I die you will win tomorrow regardless of a hunt tonight or not---assuming you hunt tomorrow---but you won't be last man standing which you will be if we hunt tonight.
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If you think a no hunt is better then definitely go for it, looks like we might pull it off at the mo so if you want to send the order?
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I think the no hunt contains possibility to blame madchemist if one of us is lynched; a last man standing won't be possible, but at the moment victory is more important and no hunt or not the game will end tomorrow at the latest.
*No hunt*
---Quote (Originally by Wagonlitz)---
---Quote (Originally by jonti-h)---
OK let's hope we can do this.
Hunt Tamius, backup Madchemist, backup happycats
---End Quote---
I have actually considered doing a no hunt just to not hit a OEO; I doubt there is another one, but it would be really annoying to lynch one of the villagers and then not reach parity because we hit a OEO. If I die today then doing a no hunt would also make madchemist more supicious, since he is known ot have deliberately made a no hunt before to avoid bad a witness. If I die you will win tomorrow regardless of a hunt tonight or not---assuming you hunt tomorrow---but you won't be last man standing which you will be if we hunt tonight.
---End Quote---
If you think a no hunt is better then definitely go for it, looks like we might pull it off at the mo so if you want to send the order?
---End Quote---
I think the no hunt contains possibility to blame madchemist if one of us is lynched; a last man standing won't be possible, but at the moment victory is more important and no hunt or not the game will end tomorrow at the latest.
*No hunt*
-The other one with a rival, who's also a PM Voter and Innkeeper: Randakar
-The one with the second deadly sin(robber): Alxeu
Died before he could make use of this in interesting ways
-The other one eye open: Dadarian
Which is why you didn't want him to die by lynching!
-The traitless one: Gen. Skobelev
...This took way longer than I'd wanted it to
PS: And I apologize for the quality of the PMs, I don't have any of them still in my forum inbox so I have to copy them from my email inbox
Thanks for the AAR Panzer!
Super-busy right now. Well, I could have done it yesterday, because I was supposed to be studying all day but did nothing. But I really have to work from now on.
Well it didn't really help us since it was only used once and then it caused the last red to survive.
No Falc never told us sbr was the priest. Also did he ever use his jester trait? He certainly didn't tell us about it.
Seems like we were extremely lucky Dadarian was run up on day 1, since otherwise we would probably have hit his OEO then; jonti really wanted him dead.
So despite the fact that I quoted the rules where it was clearly written Falc thought sbr couldn't win with the pack and was about to betray us? As stated in the rules both lovers win as long as at least one of them is on the winning side.
Who would have been scanned?---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
---Quote (Originally by sbr)---
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
---Quote (Originally by sbr)---
---Quote (Originally by Falc)---
One other bit of information you might need: Cymsdale was not a packmate of mine
---End Quote---
How about enkhuush and Arkansas, are either of them in your pack?
---End Quote---
Yes, Enkhuush was in my pack.
Arkasas isn't. Why are you asking?
---End Quote---
He is a cultist of course.
---End Quote---
Oh really? How did you find out?
---End Quote---
Oh yeah, I forgot you didn't know.
I'm the Priest. Apparently Panzer thinks he's pretty cute.
-The one with assassination and priestly powers: Kaetje
Accidentally lynched on the day she was supposed to use both her powers
Funny how Falc mentioned in the original lover discussion that there would be a second lover pair if sbr was a goodie; a shame we completely forgot about that possibility.
He jestered Randkar once and Marty another time, but neither had any effect.
Jonti(but it would have returned clean, as she had PP and he was a wolf)
Apparently the goodies were really fond of scanning jonti.
He seemed a likely wolf, but I didn't want to bother trying to get him lynched as jonti's really going at drawing those out, and you'd need to be 100% sure. So I decided to scan him, and Randakar said he had someone else ready to priest scan him as well.
Thanks for the AAR, Panzer! I was excited to have an interesting trait (distiller), but I ended up getting lynched. Oh well.
C'mon Marty! I knew for sure he was a wolf Day 1! Unfortunately, I was hunt #3 for both packs, so there probably wasn't much I could do there. (And then some jerk pushed me to the top of there list).
Well, uh, congratulations, I guess. Sorry for not being so perceptive.
As to me being at the bottom of the starting hunt order: Look, that's awesome, but it seems like every game people say they don't want to hunt me, but almost every single game I do get hunted by the same people. There just seems to be quite a large cognitive dissonance here.
Firstly when we got to day 1 and our first hunt you were second on the list, since Cymsdale had died during the red night 0 hunt. Secondly I wasn't a jerk action that got you killed: A standing list is only for if you forget to send in a hunt; on the first days the order might very well resemble the top of the list closely, but it can be modified. What happened is that the first on the list---Dadarian---was run up on day 1; as you know people have this silly tendency to run up the day 1 front runners again and again the following days, so it would have been madness to hunt Dadarian. He was therefore removed from the order---not the standing list---which meant the next on the list would be the primary target in the order; that just happened to be you. So you weren't pushed up; the guy in front of you was removed for good reason.
Then again, getting randomly hunted at the start of game is annoying. If on the other hand one gets whacked closer to end it's usually a sign that there is a reason for it (too likely goodie, no defensive stats) even if it's more annoying than death in the early game.
I realize all that. I was simply complaining about being killed Day 1 in my first Seer game while also emphasizing the tendency of scanners to scan Jonti this game.
I could only use it once per player, so I had planned on waiting until a JL (or PJL, in this case) contacted me.