Varyar said:
The Georgian Ambassador would counter that the Italian "negotiations" were an obvious farce designed to start this very war.
fasquardon
There Will Be War - In The Balance
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The Georgian Ambassador would counter that the Italian "negotiations" were an obvious farce designed to start this very war.
fasquardon
Fasquardon said:
The High Marshall of Romaion, Alexios Diogenes, Representative of Andronikos Diogenes, Emperor of the Romans, hereby takes full responsibility over Logistical affairs of the combined Armies of the Roman Commonwealth States of Georgia, Rus and Romaion. The Roman court recognizes the Georgian advisers, and they will be granted equal rights among the Romans in Military Affairs. May God lead us through the horrors of War, to Victory and to Glory.
An accusation you cannot prove, since there were no serious attempt to negotiate from the Russian side in the first place. Which would make your accusation equally valid for Rus and yourself.fasquardon said:
we have tried every effort at negotiation, but you insisted on demanding provinces to be returned to a 3rd party who was not taking part in the negotiations and offered no form of compromise. And now here we are in war yet again demanding ukraine, novgorod, and belurus from Russia, there is now ample proof from word and deed that these negotiations were merely a front, a lie, a dishonest show for nothing more then to spread deciet, lies, and warfare.
Every effort? Hah! You did nothing, offered nothing! Where were your compromise?Sid Meier said:
Considering your thoughts when you agreed to the Black Letter, are you one to talk of putting up a dishonest show?
We negotiated for a week. Our grievance was clear. You offered no compromise, nor any sign of a wish to compromise. Now you forced us to war, which demands its own cost in gold and blood. Is it unreasonable to demand compensation for that?
Sid Meier said:
The Good Lord knows that the Georgian Chancellor seldom finds herself in whole-hearted agreement with her Russian counterpart, but in this case, she is.
The fact is, it is the shambolic Italian diplomacy, and particularly their arrogance toward Prussia (who they themselves proclaimed their liege), that hardened the Georgian resolve in this matter.
fasquardon
The Black Letter was not an honest attempt at negotiation but merely the unprovoked effort by 4-5 countries for the dissolution of said nation through threat of force, had I lost khazaria and several other provinces I would not be nearly in close enough position to independent of georgia defend myself from my neighbours, that I would seek every means to render those terms obselete is merely common sense.
Would you if I had demanding the seperating of Italy into 3, Bohemia into 4, and Prussia into 2, all accept that "Now and forever" assuming things had been reversed and not lift a single thinger to change things? We offered money, prestige, and etc as compensation, if carrilon wasnt happy with 500 prestige then he should have asked for more if he did not then he did not need any more giving you no right to negotiate on his behalf.
We tried everthing, did everything, proved you wrong on every point and yet nothing deterred you from this act of aggression.
You and your forces will be defeated, will be driven out, and your leaders hanged for war crimes.
Would you if I had demanding the seperating of Italy into 3, Bohemia into 4, and Prussia into 2, all accept that "Now and forever" assuming things had been reversed and not lift a single thinger to change things? We offered money, prestige, and etc as compensation, if carrilon wasnt happy with 500 prestige then he should have asked for more if he did not then he did not need any more giving you no right to negotiate on his behalf.
We tried everthing, did everything, proved you wrong on every point and yet nothing deterred you from this act of aggression.
You and your forces will be defeated, will be driven out, and your leaders hanged for war crimes.
By which you mean the use of crossbows against "Christians"?Sid Meier said:
Or do you have some other in-period war crime to point to?
this unjustified invasion of Russia is obviously a crime against the teachers of christ, have he not said "love thy neighbour as one loves thyself?"
I don't think War crimes will be invented for another couple hundred years or so Sid m8. We live in the time where War is what it's meant to be. Without rules 
I think, in this Crusade, "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius!" is much more appropriate.Sid Meier said:
No, no, crossbows were banned from use against Christians in 1097 OTL by Pope Urban.Eird said:I don't think War crimes will be invented for another couple hundred years or so Sid m8. We live in the time where War is what it's meant to be. Without rules
ulmont said:
Damnit, why do you know so much about History :I
In any case, being hanged for "War Crimes" isn't as plausible in the Middle Ages as it is today. In the period we have our War in, people were hanged mostly for the sake of hanging them.
Yet again you prove you talk more than you listen. Have I not explained why Prussia acted like it did, and why Italy found it shameful? Indeed, if you don't listen, who are you to talk of shambolic diplomacy?fasquardon said:
Perhaps. But by exercising this "common sense" you not only violated a treaty on purpose, you even signed it with ill intent. And you may recall that in the talks preceding the Black Letter you were hardly forthcoming about the wish to restore to Prussia lands that should be Prussian.Sid Meier said:
As explained before, it was not a fair negotiation as you based it on an old border agreement. Indeed, you may recall that I suggested a repatriation of the provinces to Prussia so that you could renegotiate, only this time fair. A proposition you rejected. Which I guess speaks for itself, really.
You tried nothing, did nothing, and you certainly didn't prove me wrong on any account whatsoever. You did present an alternative view, which I recognize as partly valid, but you made no attempt whatsoever to reconcile your view with mine, and you did not recognize my view as valid. Indeed, you were the stubbirn one in our negotiations, leaving me little choice.
That is in God's hands now.
Varyar said:
And we are able to take the Italian word over that of the Prussians themselves? Shambolic.
Varyar said:
Again, you persist in calling that ultimatum a treaty. Shambolic.
Varyar said:
Hollow words that may as easily be filled with poison as honey. Words that you refused to give substance to. Respectable? Perhaps, had you the skill to make it less transparent.
Varyar said:
And you proved yourself a bloodthirsty tyrant whose own allies you motivated with fear. Shambolic? For once, no. But diabolical? Yes.
And we note that the rest of this paragraph is, to put it lightly, a load of hooey. But you already know that.
Your compulsive need to justify yourself with the dead letters of yesterday reveals your cowardly heart. Had you the courage of a man, you would take ownership of your actions, rather than braying on about "little choice".
Did you perhaps have equally little choice when you decided to undermine the very man you previously tried to convince us was your emperor? The systematic way in which Prussian diplomatic and military initiative were stripped away horrifies us much more than the squalid territorial demands of the Italians. To reduce your overlord to a puppet - one may as well crown a man an emperor and then treat him as a mule.
And while we are sure you will protest each of these points, in the same lax-brained way you have before, we have indulged Italian vanity quite enough, we are no longer listening. Now stop posing and come and fight.
[OOC: Alright Varyar, I'm sure my real vexation with this shows through in here, though be assured all of the insults are IC. From your own actions, and talking to Carillon privately I really do have issues with the way you treated Prussia. But, well, it's no big thing, it's in the past now, and I'd like to leave it there. The whole buildup to this thing has been hashed and re-hashed like 18 rounds too many (to paraphrase another) and I'm sure people are getting bored of it. I shall endevour to make this my last public post on this matter, but if you have a burning need to talk part of it over, you know where to IM me.
]fasquardon
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