-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I'm with you in hating the Rivers. On one hand if it wasn't for the Rhone, we'd probably have been over run long ago, on the other hand, its just so tough to break out from there now.rcp7 said:
I don't want too give much away, but it is safe to say that the mere idea of Yugoslavia becoming an issue drastically changes the whole ball of wax.Sir Humphrey said:
If they join the war, it would definitely be in our favor that they join our side.GeneralHannibal said:
I was hoping to have an update for you over the previous few days. It's all worked out, just needs to be proofread and a map or two drawn up, but I've been currently struggling with my computer. After several bruises and a black eye, I think I have it fixed though. Hopefully sometime this weekend I'll have it posted.
Miral said:
Ya think? Look forward to the update. Don't let the computer beat you up too bad. :rofl:
Graphics are looking impressive.
Any chance of Italy joining your war effort then?
Any chance of Italy joining your war effort then?
Allenby said:
Clearly the time Allenby is spending canvassing the voters has negatively impacted his vocabulary. This election cannot end soon enough.
With Italy out I have high hopes of further progress. My advice would be more feints and less full attacks as the feints seem more successful.
Good news: The traitorous slot of memory has been identified, arrested, and sent to a labor camp for all eternity.rcp7 said:
This is indeed a grand new concept that we are examining. Consider it the less is more strategy.El Pip said:
You guys are quite right about Italy (I think you've seen them in action before!) They have been annexed at the current time, I saw what little help they were to Germany, and I'd rather not have them be that little help to us.
An Unexpected Participant
"An unexpected participant" is how Winston Churchill termed Yugoslavia when he learned they had entered the war. For many years, much like the rest of eastern Europe, it had been strong armed by German diplomacy. To placate the growing menace which they were unable to counter, in many cases Yugoslavia had acquiesced on various political demands from Berlin. With German troops just across the northern border in Austria, and fellow fascist participant Italy across the Adriatic, the Yugoslavian nation had little wiggle room politically speaking, as the menace was right in their own backyard. Despite the success Berlin had managed in having the other nations in southeast Europe join the war effort against the Allies and Soviets, Yugoslavia had been successful in maintaining its neutrality, managing to keep itself out of the fighting that had been decimating the other countries in the region.
While the Yugoslavian foreign minister Momcilo Nincic had done a masterful job in walking this political tightrope with Berlin in staying out of the war, nevertheless with the ongoing war being waged all about their borders, the nation was in a virtual blockade. Between the ravages of war the various combatants faced, and their tendency to turn away or sink all shipping, by 1945 Yugoslavia was economically struggling to survive. Considerable discord had begun to arise throughout the ethnically divided nation, and Simovic's government was looking for a way to solve these growing concerns.
The successful Allied campaign in Italy during the first half of 1945 only managed to heighten the political unrest in the nation, as many people were growing tired of the continual presence and influence that Berlin managed to cast over the entire country. With the probable fall of fascist Italy sprung the increased hope of Germany's demise as well, which increased the activism and political turmoil throughout the divided country. Realizing this growing trend, Nincic and Simovic were eager to rid the country of the intense political pressure being forced on them by Berlin. Desperate to break this political yoke, Nincic had for months been in secret negotiations with the Allies about possible military support should they choose to join the war against Germany. With the battle for southern Europe heating up and the outcome being sought more desperately by both sides, London and Berlin were both equally anxious to have a fresh nation join the war on their side.
Foreign Minister Momcilo Nincic
In April 1945, correspondence between new American secretary of state Gerald Nye and Lord Halifax in London seemed to indicate they felt they were losing the tussle over Yugoslavia's services, and their proposed agreement was at the worst to try to keep Yugoslavia as a neutral nation. With the precarious position of the combined forces in Venice wedged between both Austria and a combatant Yugoslavia to their east, it could prove a dire situation as the rest of Italy was being liquidated. However with the growing pressure to throw themselves clean of Berlin's influence, and unrest over the economic blockade that was strangling the country, Momcilo Nincic continued his secret correspondence in bargaining an alliance with the west.
However, as often is the case, a German mole inside the Yugoslavian foreign ministry intercepted these communications. After all the years of bending Yugoslavia towards their will, Hitler went on a rampage over the news that the Yugoslav government was even considering military relations with the west. Berlin acted as one might expect this heavy handed regime to act. Germany and its puppets throughout eastern Europe declared war on Yugoslavia on May 15, as a preemptive strike before the traitor nation could become an Allied stronghold. In reality, at the time the messages were intercepted, Washington and London had very slim hopes of realizing Yugoslavia breaking from the Fascist sphere that surrounded it to join in a war against Berlin. It was merely the German intelligence overestimating how far along these secret negotiations with the west had proceeded. In effect, Germany's jumping the gun on this issue likely escalated Yugoslavia's entry into the war by a good six months. With the Axis firmly fixed against them, Simovic's government now had no choice but to declare war against Germany and the Axis, and instantly ask the Allies for aid.
The front lines May 15, 1945
With Yugoslavia entering the war, this new development at once undid the entire balance of the European theatre. For both combatants, the front in southern Europe had entailed the Rhone perimeter in France, and the Italian/Austrian Border. With one swift declaration the front was nearly tripled with another 1100 kilometers to defend. While Yugoslavia had a good amount of manpower invested in its army, the quality of its troops was sorely lacking, and could easily be overrun by the Germans and battle hardened Hungarian troops. On the surface, one more nation added to the ranks of the Allies was a good thing, but the reality of the matter was that from the moment they joined the war, Yugoslavia was at risk of being completely overrun and annihilated. This would open the way to the enemy having control of the east shore of the Adriatic, and seriously compromise the Allies' eastern flank.
Field Marshals Henry Wilson, Ironside and Devers hastily arranged another meeting in Rome to discuss how this new front should be handled. On one hand it opened up the opportunity that the Germans might transfer vast amounts of divisions to the new Balkan front, thinning the existing defenses in Austria and France. This might lead to the chance for new offensives on both these fronts. At the same time, with the perceived inability of this new ally to fight off its hostile and battle hardened neighbors, it was discussed that the British and American forces would likely have to send several divisions themselves to help bolster up this new front.
With intelligence almost immediately picking up German and Slavic troop movements towards the latest combatant's borders, the answer seemed clear: troops to some extent must be sent to northern Yugoslavia immediately. In the coming days this became more apparent, as the Bulgarians attacked the defenses at Pristina and quickly won the victory. Likewise the Hungarians began to move in from the east as well. It appeared the German forces in Austria were likewise beginning to shift to the east, poised to make gains of their own. Thus, from three sides it appeared Yugoslavia was being assailed. Wilson consequently made the decision to shift Lear's Twelfth Tank Army into Rijeka to stabilize Venezia's now vulnerable flank. In short time reports of Axis victories all about the borders began to come in. With great speed the Germans seized Ljubljana and Zagreb, marching east towards Osijek, skirting entirely around Lear's new defensive positions.
It was quite obvious Yugoslavia was in great peril and more needed to be done for them. At once the American convoy system began landing at Split to unload urgent war supplies and anti-tank weapons the Yugoslavs were in desperate need of. Likewise, with the island of Sicily now secure, General Bedell-Smith's Fourteenth Army was ordered in all haste towards Split, with the intent of defending Sarajevo. Within less than a month, two full American armies were committed to the defense of their newly beleaguered Ally. While it helped to stiffen a collapsing front, it also weakened the other two fronts the Allies had achieved. It had originally been hoped that once Italy was assimilated, all the additional manpower on the peninsula could be used to bolster the French and Alps front for offensive actions. So this new front made offensive operations in these regions considerably more difficult.
While Fourteenth Army was still in the process of unloading and shipping inland towards Sarajevo, the Hungarians were able to take Beograd by the end of June, and Valjevo on the 7th of July. It was here that the southern front finally seemed to stabilize. In the north, it was now time for the Fifteenth Army Group to go on the offensive. Ironside ordered Alexander's British First Army in Venezia and Lear's Twelfth Tank Army in Rijeka to converged on the German contingent in Ljubljana and retake the norther border of the country. The double thrust was an overwhelming success that surprisingly the Germans did not see coming, and they took considerable damage before withdrawing. Ljubljana was now back in Allied hands.
This key victory left the door to Austria seemingly wide open, and with so many units on the border poised for attack, the decision had to be made whether to attempt a thrust into Austria, or sweep southward into Zagreb and retake the rest of Yugoslavia. Once again Field Marshall Ironside seemed tentative about jumping into the Alps without proper preparation. Military historians debate this decision, but one cannot necessarily blame him for this timidity concerning an offensive into Austria, even in light of how sparse the defense was thought to be at the moment. He was concerned, and rightly so, that the Germans would counter any quick thrust into Austria with considerable firepower. So instead he opted in his words to, "stabilize the fledgling Yugoslav theatre before opening up another front."
Fresh off their victory in Ljubljana, Alexander's and Lear's Armies were ordered south to kick the Germans out of Zagreb as well. As they moved in from the north, Dewitt's 22nd Mountain Division, assigned to Bedell Smith's Fourteenth Army defending Sarajevo, was to attack Zagreb from the south at the same time. The attack commenced on July 19th, and like the battle to the north a week earlier was a smashing success. The northern borders of Yugoslavia were restored, and the new American and British Armies stared across the Donau defiantly at the Hungarians and Slovaks. Lear's armor even attempted an impromptu crossing into Pecs before they could muster a defense, a slim chance at best; but he sought to seize the initiative and carry on with the momentum of the previous two battles. This last attack failed, but it was a wakeup call to the Hungarians, that American armor had temporarily crossed onto their soil. Perhaps bolstered by the American and British successes in the north, the Yugoslavian army, freshly equipped with anti tank weapons from their allies, were able to defeat the Romanians and Antonescu and recapture Nis, though it would fall again in August. After the initial setbacks which saw much of the country's perimeter being overrun, with the aid of it's new Allies, by the end of July most Yugoslavian territory had once again been retaken.
Allied reconquest of Yugoslavian perimeters
"An unexpected participant" is how Winston Churchill termed Yugoslavia when he learned they had entered the war. For many years, much like the rest of eastern Europe, it had been strong armed by German diplomacy. To placate the growing menace which they were unable to counter, in many cases Yugoslavia had acquiesced on various political demands from Berlin. With German troops just across the northern border in Austria, and fellow fascist participant Italy across the Adriatic, the Yugoslavian nation had little wiggle room politically speaking, as the menace was right in their own backyard. Despite the success Berlin had managed in having the other nations in southeast Europe join the war effort against the Allies and Soviets, Yugoslavia had been successful in maintaining its neutrality, managing to keep itself out of the fighting that had been decimating the other countries in the region.
While the Yugoslavian foreign minister Momcilo Nincic had done a masterful job in walking this political tightrope with Berlin in staying out of the war, nevertheless with the ongoing war being waged all about their borders, the nation was in a virtual blockade. Between the ravages of war the various combatants faced, and their tendency to turn away or sink all shipping, by 1945 Yugoslavia was economically struggling to survive. Considerable discord had begun to arise throughout the ethnically divided nation, and Simovic's government was looking for a way to solve these growing concerns.
The successful Allied campaign in Italy during the first half of 1945 only managed to heighten the political unrest in the nation, as many people were growing tired of the continual presence and influence that Berlin managed to cast over the entire country. With the probable fall of fascist Italy sprung the increased hope of Germany's demise as well, which increased the activism and political turmoil throughout the divided country. Realizing this growing trend, Nincic and Simovic were eager to rid the country of the intense political pressure being forced on them by Berlin. Desperate to break this political yoke, Nincic had for months been in secret negotiations with the Allies about possible military support should they choose to join the war against Germany. With the battle for southern Europe heating up and the outcome being sought more desperately by both sides, London and Berlin were both equally anxious to have a fresh nation join the war on their side.
Foreign Minister Momcilo Nincic
In April 1945, correspondence between new American secretary of state Gerald Nye and Lord Halifax in London seemed to indicate they felt they were losing the tussle over Yugoslavia's services, and their proposed agreement was at the worst to try to keep Yugoslavia as a neutral nation. With the precarious position of the combined forces in Venice wedged between both Austria and a combatant Yugoslavia to their east, it could prove a dire situation as the rest of Italy was being liquidated. However with the growing pressure to throw themselves clean of Berlin's influence, and unrest over the economic blockade that was strangling the country, Momcilo Nincic continued his secret correspondence in bargaining an alliance with the west.
However, as often is the case, a German mole inside the Yugoslavian foreign ministry intercepted these communications. After all the years of bending Yugoslavia towards their will, Hitler went on a rampage over the news that the Yugoslav government was even considering military relations with the west. Berlin acted as one might expect this heavy handed regime to act. Germany and its puppets throughout eastern Europe declared war on Yugoslavia on May 15, as a preemptive strike before the traitor nation could become an Allied stronghold. In reality, at the time the messages were intercepted, Washington and London had very slim hopes of realizing Yugoslavia breaking from the Fascist sphere that surrounded it to join in a war against Berlin. It was merely the German intelligence overestimating how far along these secret negotiations with the west had proceeded. In effect, Germany's jumping the gun on this issue likely escalated Yugoslavia's entry into the war by a good six months. With the Axis firmly fixed against them, Simovic's government now had no choice but to declare war against Germany and the Axis, and instantly ask the Allies for aid.
The front lines May 15, 1945
With Yugoslavia entering the war, this new development at once undid the entire balance of the European theatre. For both combatants, the front in southern Europe had entailed the Rhone perimeter in France, and the Italian/Austrian Border. With one swift declaration the front was nearly tripled with another 1100 kilometers to defend. While Yugoslavia had a good amount of manpower invested in its army, the quality of its troops was sorely lacking, and could easily be overrun by the Germans and battle hardened Hungarian troops. On the surface, one more nation added to the ranks of the Allies was a good thing, but the reality of the matter was that from the moment they joined the war, Yugoslavia was at risk of being completely overrun and annihilated. This would open the way to the enemy having control of the east shore of the Adriatic, and seriously compromise the Allies' eastern flank.
Field Marshals Henry Wilson, Ironside and Devers hastily arranged another meeting in Rome to discuss how this new front should be handled. On one hand it opened up the opportunity that the Germans might transfer vast amounts of divisions to the new Balkan front, thinning the existing defenses in Austria and France. This might lead to the chance for new offensives on both these fronts. At the same time, with the perceived inability of this new ally to fight off its hostile and battle hardened neighbors, it was discussed that the British and American forces would likely have to send several divisions themselves to help bolster up this new front.
With intelligence almost immediately picking up German and Slavic troop movements towards the latest combatant's borders, the answer seemed clear: troops to some extent must be sent to northern Yugoslavia immediately. In the coming days this became more apparent, as the Bulgarians attacked the defenses at Pristina and quickly won the victory. Likewise the Hungarians began to move in from the east as well. It appeared the German forces in Austria were likewise beginning to shift to the east, poised to make gains of their own. Thus, from three sides it appeared Yugoslavia was being assailed. Wilson consequently made the decision to shift Lear's Twelfth Tank Army into Rijeka to stabilize Venezia's now vulnerable flank. In short time reports of Axis victories all about the borders began to come in. With great speed the Germans seized Ljubljana and Zagreb, marching east towards Osijek, skirting entirely around Lear's new defensive positions.
It was quite obvious Yugoslavia was in great peril and more needed to be done for them. At once the American convoy system began landing at Split to unload urgent war supplies and anti-tank weapons the Yugoslavs were in desperate need of. Likewise, with the island of Sicily now secure, General Bedell-Smith's Fourteenth Army was ordered in all haste towards Split, with the intent of defending Sarajevo. Within less than a month, two full American armies were committed to the defense of their newly beleaguered Ally. While it helped to stiffen a collapsing front, it also weakened the other two fronts the Allies had achieved. It had originally been hoped that once Italy was assimilated, all the additional manpower on the peninsula could be used to bolster the French and Alps front for offensive actions. So this new front made offensive operations in these regions considerably more difficult.
While Fourteenth Army was still in the process of unloading and shipping inland towards Sarajevo, the Hungarians were able to take Beograd by the end of June, and Valjevo on the 7th of July. It was here that the southern front finally seemed to stabilize. In the north, it was now time for the Fifteenth Army Group to go on the offensive. Ironside ordered Alexander's British First Army in Venezia and Lear's Twelfth Tank Army in Rijeka to converged on the German contingent in Ljubljana and retake the norther border of the country. The double thrust was an overwhelming success that surprisingly the Germans did not see coming, and they took considerable damage before withdrawing. Ljubljana was now back in Allied hands.
This key victory left the door to Austria seemingly wide open, and with so many units on the border poised for attack, the decision had to be made whether to attempt a thrust into Austria, or sweep southward into Zagreb and retake the rest of Yugoslavia. Once again Field Marshall Ironside seemed tentative about jumping into the Alps without proper preparation. Military historians debate this decision, but one cannot necessarily blame him for this timidity concerning an offensive into Austria, even in light of how sparse the defense was thought to be at the moment. He was concerned, and rightly so, that the Germans would counter any quick thrust into Austria with considerable firepower. So instead he opted in his words to, "stabilize the fledgling Yugoslav theatre before opening up another front."
Fresh off their victory in Ljubljana, Alexander's and Lear's Armies were ordered south to kick the Germans out of Zagreb as well. As they moved in from the north, Dewitt's 22nd Mountain Division, assigned to Bedell Smith's Fourteenth Army defending Sarajevo, was to attack Zagreb from the south at the same time. The attack commenced on July 19th, and like the battle to the north a week earlier was a smashing success. The northern borders of Yugoslavia were restored, and the new American and British Armies stared across the Donau defiantly at the Hungarians and Slovaks. Lear's armor even attempted an impromptu crossing into Pecs before they could muster a defense, a slim chance at best; but he sought to seize the initiative and carry on with the momentum of the previous two battles. This last attack failed, but it was a wakeup call to the Hungarians, that American armor had temporarily crossed onto their soil. Perhaps bolstered by the American and British successes in the north, the Yugoslavian army, freshly equipped with anti tank weapons from their allies, were able to defeat the Romanians and Antonescu and recapture Nis, though it would fall again in August. After the initial setbacks which saw much of the country's perimeter being overrun, with the aid of it's new Allies, by the end of July most Yugoslavian territory had once again been retaken.
Allied reconquest of Yugoslavian perimeters
New reader - how do you get the contour lines on the map? I like 'em and would use the same process for my AAR's. Makes the map look realistic and less a game.
Good AAR so far!
Good AAR so far!
Lets hope that they can pick their game up, and aren't to much of a drag on the overall allied cause.
*nods* It was either a) help them out by thinning our lines or b) let them fall, hoping they weakened German lines in doing so. For game play, b is best, but for realism it is a. Now, Yugo just seems to drag everyone down. IMHOSir Humphrey said:
With total control of the seas, you have the benefit of interior lines, even though Germany shares the same bonus. You need to start surrounding enemy divisions and destroying entire divisions/armies. Pushing them before you is an ok strategy, but it will simply last too long and become a war of attrition (which you'll win). Instead you need to surround enemy armies and force them to surrender. That is the quickest and easiest recipe for quick advances in HOI. This is how the Germans and then Soviets fought from 41 till 45.
Is Greece in the war?
If not, is there any possibility of them joining the allies?
If not, is there any possibility of them joining the allies?
Italy 'being liquidated'. Why use such reassuring terminology for an occupied people?
Now here's an excellent opportunity to knock away those weak Axis allies.
Now here's an excellent opportunity to knock away those weak Axis allies.