the Future of Arsenal of Democracy

[PB-DK]

hello awesome people and grognards of Arsenal of Democracy, it is a pleasure to work on AoD and as part of the dev team i just wanted to let you guys know that we are currently considering trying to make an expansion of sorts (over the next couple of years) to cover the cold war up to around 1990/2000, adding in what ever we can with events and techs...

the bigger question is, what do you guys want? we are limited as to what we can do, lennart has little time to devote to any coding on the exe so any updates that way is probably impossible in the near future unless we can actually get a revenue from this project like an expansion or dlc for it if you guys want to pay for that...

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

I'd happily pay, perhaps a Crowd Funding page might help?

I'd mainly just want to build upon the great game, by.....

Map
Just a more detailed map, some of the provinces are way too large, would be a tremendous boost to this epic game.

Events
Really utilising the events system from Darkest Hour, or creating something similar. The game would be far more interactive and easier to research if players can see in-game how to trigger events. Instead we currently have to scour the hundreds of files in db/events and try to translate all the trigger & result commands.

Then further expanding upon it, and diplomacy in general, with something like a blockade type diplomatic mission (instead of, or complimenting, it being done via event).

I imagine the events themselves will be written in the same way they currently are, so I'd also ask for a neater organisation of them all (i.e. merging all events that could affect a human nation into one file for that nation, ideally with a contents page if there are more then 20 events for that nation).


Espionage
I think this is already the case again with Darkest Hour, but having more specific information on the espionage screen.

For instance, having the estimated military numbers being more specific (i.e. not just "infantry divisions", but it being separated into "leg infantry, militia, motorised infantry, mechanised infantry" etc).

Same again for production - i.e. instead of "we believe they are focusing on a greater navy to control the seas".... "we believe they are focusing on aircraft carriers, with destroyers for screens, alongside a smaller focus on infantry/militia/motorised/armoured production". This might be harder to handle, but also dealing with the exploit where players can load their production line full of ships they never intend to build, just in order to hide their actual production of ARM/MEC/MOT/whatever on the espionage screen, would be great.

Really, regarding capital ship production, it was incredibly hard to hide this from the world, and perhaps some sort of "Global Announcements" panel could be introduced to detail any capital ship in the world entering production.

I'm not sure how to handle this, but it'd be creative & realistic for intelligence to be wrong sometimes. Especially regarding enemy research - you either know nothing or everything with the current system. Keep 1 spy in enemy territory and you have the potential to discover way too much about them.


Dissent
The option for dissent to directly impact industry, rather then indirectly through revolt risk (i.e. how it operated in vanilla HoI2) - note I'm only suggesting for players to have the option to chose either this or the AoD system.


Paratroopers
A lot of work has gone into fixing them, and I am so so grateful, but even more would be incredible too. For instance, they should not be able to stop enemy units from entering a province the paratroopers are attacking (but don't yet hold).


Modding
Putting more power in the hands of softcoders, especially the ability to edit how the AI handles land combat. But also things like brigade numbers for land units.


Naval movement
Preventing ships from moving port to port, avoiding entering the sea province at any point, would be handy and realistic in preventing shenanigans.

 

[PB-DK]

I'd happily pay, perhaps a Crowd Funding page might help?

I'd mainly just want to build upon the great game, by.....

Map
Just a more detailed map, some of the provinces are way too large, would be a tremendous boost to this epic game.

Events
Really utilising the events system from Darkest Hour, or creating something similar. The game would be far more interactive and easier to research if players can see in-game how to trigger events. Instead we currently have to scour the hundreds of files in db/events and try to translate all the trigger & result commands.

Then further expanding upon it, and diplomacy in general, with something like a blockade type diplomatic mission (instead of, or complimenting, it being done via event).

I imagine the events themselves will be written in the same way they currently are, so I'd also ask for a neater organisation of them all (i.e. merging all events that could affect a human nation into one file for that nation, ideally with a contents page if there are more then 20 events for that nation).


Espionage
I think this is already the case again with Darkest Hour, but having more specific information on the espionage screen.

For instance, having the estimated military numbers being more specific (i.e. not just "infantry divisions", but it being separated into "leg infantry, militia, motorised infantry, mechanised infantry" etc).

Same again for production - i.e. instead of "we believe they are focusing on a greater navy to control the seas".... "we believe they are focusing on aircraft carriers, with destroyers for screens, alongside a smaller focus on infantry/militia/motorised/armoured production". This might be harder to handle, but also dealing with the exploit where players can load their production line full of ships they never intend to build, just in order to hide their actual production of ARM/MEC/MOT/whatever on the espionage screen, would be great.

Really, regarding capital ship production, it was incredibly hard to hide this from the world, and perhaps some sort of "Global Announcements" panel could be introduced to detail any capital ship in the world entering production.

I'm not sure how to handle this, but it'd be creative & realistic for intelligence to be wrong sometimes. Especially regarding enemy research - you either know nothing or everything with the current system. Keep 1 spy in enemy territory and you have the potential to discover way too much about them.


Dissent
The option for dissent to directly impact industry, rather then indirectly through revolt risk (i.e. how it operated in vanilla HoI2) - note I'm only suggesting for players to have the option to chose either this or the AoD system.


Paratroopers
A lot of work has gone into fixing them, and I am so so grateful, but even more would be incredible too. For instance, they should not be able to stop enemy units from entering a province the paratroopers are attacking (but don't yet hold).


Modding
Putting more power in the hands of softcoders, especially the ability to edit how the AI handles land combat. But also things like brigade numbers for land units.


Naval movement
Preventing ships from moving port to port, avoiding entering the sea province at any point, would be handy and realistic in preventing shenanigans.

i can have a look at the code myself and see if i can come up with some tweaks but unfortunately i only have a very rudimentary understanding of programing (mostly python for playing with neural nets), i can potentially tweak a few variables here and there but not make anything new(with any hope of it working as intended anyways XD ), the very talented Julie is much more capable and may offer her expertise to the coding parts so we have a little hope there.

what we do have already is getting the Tripartie graphics pack as part of our future updates thanks to Titan79! (super thanks for that!)

the map is possible, i know the E3 guys have an awesome version of it and we can talk to them about using it.

definitely agree on the events and decisions but that is going to need some coding - might be that the darkest hour guys may want to share it but i don't have the elite skillz to do something like that yet =p ^^,

 

[Fu.Th.Sy.]

First of all a big THANK YOU for not giving up on AOD yet.
I could give you some suggestions on how to further improve this game, nevertheless you and Mr_B0narpte already covered most of them (cold war, new map, more soft-coding options...).
Perhaps making AI smarter at naval invasions, by that I mean:
- making AI use larger invasion force
- protecting transports that carry land units

Oh and if it is possible, having DH air scramble mission for air units and multiple brigades for land units would be a nice addition too.

​

 

[PB-DK]

First of all a big THANK YOU for not giving up on AOD yet.
I could give you some suggestions on how to further improve this game, nevertheless you and Mr_B0narpte already covered most of them (cold war, new map, more soft-coding options...).
Perhaps making AI smarter at naval invasions, by that I mean:
- making AI use larger invasion force
- protecting transports that carry land units

Oh and if it is possible, having DH air scramble mission for air units and multiple brigades for land units would be a nice addition too.

​

yep, i miss the intercept/scramble mission as well, if it is still in the code i can see if there is any hope of reviving it but no promises
naval invasions might be a little easier if it is just a few variables but if it requires new code that might be a while on that, protecting transports in general is something i want as well so i will be looking into that as well
(even AoD 1.00 is still a better game than any other hoi game XD but i might be 'slightly' biased on that and DH the second bestest)

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

the map is possible, i know the E3 guys have an awesome version of it and we can talk to them about using it.

There's also incorporating fabfeingold's work on converting the AoD map as an idea, his (unfinished but under progress) mod is here

Incorporating people's mods into a new version of AoD is a grand idea! Would be smashing to have Vanguard, CORE, Improved 1936, Tripartite Pack, Third Reich Mod etc all under one roof, with players picking which one to play with

definitely agree on the events and decisions but that is going to need some coding - might be that the darkest hour guys may want to share it but i don't have the elite skillz to do something like that yet =p ^^,

Sounds like a joint project could happen

 

[Czarina Julie]

Hi All,
Just wanted to let you all know these are great ideas. PB-DK, I and others have talked about these and even further with Airmobile (Air Assault) units, new Armor Cavalry Regiments, new other types of Cavalry (currently working on), drop tanks for some planes, total reorganization of all the tech screens, and a much more. We really need those wishlist items so PB-DK can plan if or when we incorporate theses in future patches.

As for the hardcoding (the AODGame.exe) I've just recently been looking through the old reported bugs. Also, I haven't looked much at the code due to other [AOD] things I'm working on. So I'm not sure how much of the hardcoding I can get done before a beta release to you folks...concentrating on organizing the event and tech files. I will say that I have finished and tested the new Government and War bond events. You'll also see a more events regarding Mexican involvement in the SCW helping Republican Spain acquire military equipment and supplies, the Anglo and French blockade of both Nationalist and Republican Spain, and Mexican historical events.

 

[bosman]

Can you allow bigger tech background layouts so there could be extensive tech trees? Theoretically in higher resolutions it seems to be quite easy, but since it would be rather bad option to cutoff lower resolutions my proposal is this:

Add a slider like this at tech teams, so with bigger layouts we might slide them down to access all the techs.

From my side i declare, that i can financially support further development of this game in a reasonable extent.

 

[Czarina Julie]

Can you allow bigger tech background layouts so there could be extensive tech trees? Theoretically in higher resolutions it seems to be quite easy, but since it would be rather bad option to cutoff lower resolutions my proposal is this:

Well, that picture looks like the one I did several days ago with the other developers I brought p the same question.

We have 3 choices. We can either raised the minimum screen resolution (not the best option), expand the tree across the screen (covering more of the map) or throw in a slider bar control for the tech screen area. The latter would let you scroll up and down.

Here are a few screenshots of some of the tech screens (these are not the final versions)

Again these are not final versions as we are still discussing and determining what we can get in the release. This is just some "eye candy" for ya'all.

Some of the major changes:
• No more having to research 2 rocket interceptors, then upgrade your interceptors through 2 upgrades, then be able to research the turbojet engine. You can now upgrade your advance interceptors directly to turbojet interceptors after researching the Rocket Airframe Prototype and Practical Turbojet Engine.
• The Airborne unit now requires the Great War Infantry (as before) and the Early Bomber/Transport (1934). You have to have a plane to get them to their DZ
‹ No more researching 2 secret weapons (screening and capital nuclear) to get nuclear ships. You just researched the Nuclear Ship Propulsion to unlock the new CVN, CVLN, DDN, CLN, BCN, and SSN. This means no more Capital or Screening Nuclear Brigades/Attachments.

 

[MJF]

Great. Possibly start with Iron Cross mod/game, and move out from there.

Another idea is move out from C.O.R.E. I didn't really play it, but it was one of the earliest, and most popular, HOI II mods, IIRC.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Here are a few screenshots of some of the tech screens (these are not the final versions)

Amazing! The troop transport tech especially interests me, I remember you commenting elsewhere about the transport weight, it's a great idea to build upon it like this

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

A few more ideas before I forget:-


Notifications - having an option to get notified if an ally loses an convoy or escort fleet would be great

Also utilising the DH combat history system, which details not just manpower losses, but also tanks, trucks etc - and doing the same type of notification for air battles (ie you lost 34 fighters while bringing down 40 enemy bombers and 100 escort planes)

Brigades - "fixing" them, as I remember there's some weirdness regarding disbanding them, where one route doesn't get you the extra MP, whereas another does. Also, having separate brigade strength would be great - as currently they never lose any strength.

Also, either removing or fixing the artillery losses section (as it's always at 0).

Combat - if possible, find a way that avoids having to refresh combat at 0000 hours each day, leading to the exploit where the attacker can keep refreshing units overnight, and same for bombing provinces & their repairs.

Days - it's nice for AoD to have its own calendar system, but one akin to real life would be great

 

[Czarina Julie]

I remember you commenting elsewhere about the transport weight, it's a great idea to build upon it like this

It was probably in my RLL (Return Lost Lands) scenario post. Since then I was invited to work with the 1.13 team. Some of the things I had in that scenario (and enhanced AOD) and other ideas the team discuss. We are still discussing what to add, what to modify, and what will be in the actual release. What is amazing about the team members, is we all fit together well.

The new Troop Transports are based upon historical amphibious operations and equipment. The first three troop transports will not support the later (1945) armor and mechanized later in the war but the 1943 version (LSTs - Landing Ship, Tank) and later do. Researching troop transports from 1940 will give amphib assault & shore attack bonuses to certain infantry units (after 1943 is researched, armor/mech). LCA, Amphib Wheeled, LCT, LCT(A), LCA(C) type vehicles are taken into account with the troop transports.

BTW - I forgot to mention that there is a new "brigade." Starting with the Semimodern Mechanized Division (1945) and up, there's a new "brigade" called Mechanized Upgrade. It allows one to upgrade their regular/light infantry to a mechanized infantry division in all aspects.

 

[Czarina Julie]

A few more ideas before I forget:-


Notifications - having an option to get notified if an ally loses an convoy or escort fleet would be great

Also utilising the DH combat history system, which details not just manpower losses, but also tanks, trucks etc - and doing the same type of notification for air battles (ie you lost 34 fighters while bringing down 40 enemy bombers and 100 escort planes)

Brigades - "fixing" them, as I remember there's some weirdness regarding disbanding them, where one route doesn't get you the extra MP, whereas another does. Also, having separate brigade strength would be great - as currently they never lose any strength.

Also, either removing or fixing the artillery losses section (as it's always at 0).

Combat - if possible, find a way that avoids having to refresh combat at 0000 hours each day, leading to the exploit where the attacker can keep refreshing units overnight, and same for bombing provinces & their repairs.

Days - it's nice for AoD to have its own calendar system, but one akin to real life would be great

Oh, oh, oh Mr_B0narpte, thanks for the extra coding work

But seriously, these are all items that need to be done within the AODGame code itself and that usually takes time. Not saying it can't/won't be done, but not sure when, if, or what release it could be in. For me personally, I just started (like today) looking through the reported bugs and code. I couldn't event estimate, at this time, how long it would take since I'm not familized with the AODGame code yet.

 

[bosman]

Well, that picture looks like the one I did several days ago with the other developers I brought p the same question.

So that only proves it is desired Now i even think it is strange, that we don't have it already...

Those tech layouts are pretty esthetic i must admit, good idea with those symbols.
What do you think about backgrounds having different colour themes for various categories? For instance: Industrial & Secret techs - brown/grey, land related techs (infantry, art&arm, land doctrines)- green, naval realated (naval, naval doctrines) - blue, air (aircraft, air doctrines) - yellow/purple.

 

[Czarina Julie]

What do you think about backgrounds having different colour themes for various categories?

In the ..\gfx\interface folder there are other versions. Currently there is a BDU (forest camouflaged) and a DCU (desert camouflage) background version for the Infantry techs and 2 naval camouflage backgrounds for the Naval techs. IMO these are a bit too busy but I could also do different colors....even thinking of doing map background that contains both NATO and Soviet/Russian graphics (like the ones we had at Fort Irwin....OPFOR vs US Army)... Throw those background ideas my way.

Also when one starts researching an Infantry, Naval, and Aircraft tech, that background has also changed.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Very nice ideas, looks good!

 

[bosman]

@Czarina Julie
If those camouflage graphics were toned down they could actually fit very well, nevertheless i will see researching project backgrounds in next patch. I mean i WILL see them...

 

[Czarina Julie]

Czarina Julie
If those camouflage graphics were toned down they could actually fit very well, nevertheless i will see researching project backgrounds in next patch. I mean i WILL see them...

I can lighten, make more transparent, darken, etc. very easily since every tech screen I did has between 9 to 12 layers. They are in .pdn (Paint.NET) format. If you use Paint.NET I can let you have them to play with. I'm still reorganizing the techs and we're still adding new and modifying others but if you want to play around them (I even have a cloth pattern as a layer ) you're more than welcome to them.

 

[PB-DK]

Oh and if it is possible, having DH air scramble mission for air units and multiple brigades for land units would be a nice addition too.

well the good news is that are indeed some commented out code that might be related to the intercept/scramble mission - but it looks a little(lot) out of my league for now to reenable - so there is hope ^^,