I'm afraid that Macarthur would most likely under these circumstances resign from the US Army and take post as Field Marshal of the Philippine Army.
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trekaddict - The Matilda II will be stuck with a 2pdr, no-one is thinking about upgrades as the pace of development isn't that fast. As the previous generation of tanks had a 3pdr guns (but far lower velocity) the most anyone might be planning is a HV 3pdr gun. No-one is thinking as far ahead as a 6pdr, that is sadly madness from a 1930s perspective.
Jape - I hadn't thought of that but now you mention it the picture does looks like a sad Brando wondering where it all went wrong, to which the answer is "The mid-1970s when you went nuts."
TheExecuter - MacArthur is not a popular chap in the US it appears. In fact I don't think I've seen anyone pop up to defend him, which is odd as normally someone will at least say 'He wasn't that bad' for almost any maligned general.
C&D - If it was a giant spike I apologise, but Steve Irwin really doesn't meet any sane definition of 'Greatest man in history'. I mean just off the top of my head Crocodile Dundee was a greater man and he was fictional.
Duritz - Not even a footnote in GOP history, a retired general who ranted about defence for years before finally even notionally friendly paper stopped reporting on him as people got bored.
KiMaSa - I've checked the dates, if he's kicked out in 1933 I agree he retires from the Army. But then what?
At that point the PI was still wrangling around for a better independence deal and there was no Field Marshall job in existence, it would be almost two whole years before the PI had a military for anyone to command. Even if MacArthur waits it out would Quezon really appoint him in the face of heavy Washington disapproval (Smith would still be President late 1935 so would really want anyone but MacArthur).
Not really my field but it seems unlikely, though if anyone has a better grasp of that area of history I'd be happy to defer to them.
Votes
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Spain - 31
US - 15
Tractors - 22
Durry's spa... heavy voting ensures Spain keeps it's commanding position while Tractors looks to have secured second place. Which is good as I've actually come up with a few decent ideas for the agricultural update which I'm quite looking forward to.
Jape - I hadn't thought of that but now you mention it the picture does looks like a sad Brando wondering where it all went wrong, to which the answer is "The mid-1970s when you went nuts."
TheExecuter - MacArthur is not a popular chap in the US it appears. In fact I don't think I've seen anyone pop up to defend him, which is odd as normally someone will at least say 'He wasn't that bad' for almost any maligned general.
C&D - If it was a giant spike I apologise, but Steve Irwin really doesn't meet any sane definition of 'Greatest man in history'. I mean just off the top of my head Crocodile Dundee was a greater man and he was fictional.
Duritz - Not even a footnote in GOP history, a retired general who ranted about defence for years before finally even notionally friendly paper stopped reporting on him as people got bored.
KiMaSa - I've checked the dates, if he's kicked out in 1933 I agree he retires from the Army. But then what?
At that point the PI was still wrangling around for a better independence deal and there was no Field Marshall job in existence, it would be almost two whole years before the PI had a military for anyone to command. Even if MacArthur waits it out would Quezon really appoint him in the face of heavy Washington disapproval (Smith would still be President late 1935 so would really want anyone but MacArthur).
Not really my field but it seems unlikely, though if anyone has a better grasp of that area of history I'd be happy to defer to them.
Votes
---
Spain - 31
US - 15
Tractors - 22
Durry's spa... heavy voting ensures Spain keeps it's commanding position while Tractors looks to have secured second place. Which is good as I've actually come up with a few decent ideas for the agricultural update which I'm quite looking forward to.
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No 6pdr then. Pity. But you are of course right in your assessment; even so it doesn't take too much foresight to make the turret ring larger than OTL.
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Get some of that Malay Tungsten into the 2pdr to be on the safe side.
Oh and agriculture/tractors +1.
Oh and agriculture/tractors +1.
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As for MacArthur, well, the negative butterfly there is essentially abandoning it to the Japs when they start getting all worked up. A vindication in a historical footnote when historians realize his words on needing defensive bastions would be critical; and could be cause for Australia getting threatened even earlier by the Japs. Maybe counter that negative with Patton being the guy sent off there? His father did serve in the country AFAIR.
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I suspect it is because he was a decent general... He was just a dick
So people don't feel the need to defend his military skills, and everyone knows he's a dick - 1
Tractors +20
This President is not Roosevelt. Macarthur's probably still got the support in the military to retire the President.
Macarthur was ordered out of the Philippines. He did not choose to go.
It's thanks to "Comrade Ike" that Communist China exists - thanks to several ill-judged foreign policy decisions. If there's a vote for falling under tank tracks the overrated "Ike" gets my vote, narrowly ahead of the useless should-have-been-shot-for-rank-insubordination Mark Clark.
At this point the army is having its own difficulty persuading the powers that be that 2pdr artillery just doesn't cut it any more and that the 6 pdr is the way to go.
The new Matilda II would more than likely be seen as a welcome and sensible improvment to the tank family. Politicians and generals would pat themselves on the back and bask in their accomplishment.
This President is not Roosevelt. Macarthur's probably still got the support in the military to retire the President.
Macarthur was ordered out of the Philippines. He did not choose to go.
It's thanks to "Comrade Ike" that Communist China exists - thanks to several ill-judged foreign policy decisions. If there's a vote for falling under tank tracks the overrated "Ike" gets my vote, narrowly ahead of the useless should-have-been-shot-for-rank-insubordination Mark Clark.
At this point the army is having its own difficulty persuading the powers that be that 2pdr artillery just doesn't cut it any more and that the 6 pdr is the way to go.
The new Matilda II would more than likely be seen as a welcome and sensible improvment to the tank family. Politicians and generals would pat themselves on the back and bask in their accomplishment.
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Tractor = infinity (or failing that + 2000)
Wrapping up the Home front before heading off to Spain and the USA seems a more sensible progression.
Wrapping up the Home front before heading off to Spain and the USA seems a more sensible progression.
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It's thanks to "Comrade MacArthur" that Communist North Korea exists...
+1 US politics
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Hey Pip. That MacArthur defender you ordered has shown up. Can we put a muzzle on him now? He seems to have roughly the same social grace as MacArthur.
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MacArthur's pretty much immoveable as Chief of Staff until something comes up, he's more interested in doing. He's already forced one President to follow his "advice".
You're really asking for a flame war. You've made a personal attack upon me. That's the usual form for discussions about MacArthur. Flaming and personal attacks. The record is set straight. I've said all I'm going to say about MacArthur. Your forays into this AAR have not been to the point. You've followed your own agenda. That's just disrespectful to El Pip.
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You are welcome to maintain and express your own opinion in whatever terms you like.
How I behave in Pip's thread and whether I am disrespectful to Pip is entirely for him to decide.
And I just want to see the Spain update - I think it has a lot more potential than tractors. i therefore responded to your inflationary voting strategy (+20?! :/), before being drawn back into the 'who should we squish with a tank' debate that I entered earlier. I then referenced an earlier remark about nobody defending MacArthur as written by Pip, as you have quoted in the post above this one. I then jokingly suggested silencing you. If you feel that is a personal attack, it wasn't meant as such. Rather it was a wry jibe that has been misconstrued.
How I behave in Pip's thread and whether I am disrespectful to Pip is entirely for him to decide.
And I just want to see the Spain update - I think it has a lot more potential than tractors. i therefore responded to your inflationary voting strategy (+20?! :/), before being drawn back into the 'who should we squish with a tank' debate that I entered earlier. I then referenced an earlier remark about nobody defending MacArthur as written by Pip, as you have quoted in the post above this one. I then jokingly suggested silencing you. If you feel that is a personal attack, it wasn't meant as such. Rather it was a wry jibe that has been misconstrued.
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An intervention he did not believe would or even could take place...despite evidence of the ~200,000 PRC soldiers on the Yalu. It was his opinion that his air-force would 'slaughter' any attempt to make it to Pyongyang (15 October, 1950 at his meeting with Truman on Wake).
MacArthur was in command of the disastrous retreat. In command during the Chinese winter offensive (when he advocated using the Atomic Bomb). It wasn't until April (after the relative failures of Operation Roundup, Operation Killer, and Operation Ripper to restore UN success on the battlefield) that MacArthur was recalled.
MacArthur was an inspirational leader of men. He was an average tactical general. He was atrocious at determining policy or discerning what his enemy's next political move would be.
Had he not been so full of hubris in the fall of 1950, the UN forces would have been better prepared for a Chinese full-scale intervention...and Truman would not have been so confident as to provoke the Dragon into intervening. Much of the tragedy of the winter of 1950-1951 must fall on MacArthur AND Truman. Both men made appalling errors of judgement.
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Chief.. I Strongly disagree with you on most of your points... HOWEVER I agree that out of respect to our Host.. And I; indeed HAVE come to have a firm respect of El Pip... We should leave it at that.
Let's all sit back and see what happens folks. I eagerly await further developments Good Sir Pip!
Let's all sit back and see what happens folks. I eagerly await further developments Good Sir Pip!
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