Putting Things Right... from kerberos forum

[Mishrack]

I don't like multiple planets in a system and i dont like making feesabilty studies.

I do.. So you want them removed to please you and upset the rest of us?

and lets get straight to the point here, honestly from the little i've seen the AI is utter junk. I believe honestly STOS vs STOS II the STOS AI would win hands down.

SotS has had it's AI improved on for ages. It didn't start out perfect, netheir did this, but we've seen what KP can achieve with time.

now that said i also wonder why we start out with 3 planets... I am very picky about the planets i colonize and i dont like the AI making that choice. and also honestly why are there so few starting maps?

Did you miss the option in game setup that lets you specifically choose how many planets you start off with?

 

[Tiny Turtle]

Seeing that from Mecron has made me all too happy and satisfied with the state of affairs. I am content.

 

[Mishrack]

I wish we had gotten this post from him on friday though, and it might well have toned down or avoided a lot of the rage. I'll admit I feel better for reading it, and what little I've managed to play this game inbetween all the crashing has been enjoyable. I'd love to see it in a polished state, but hopefully we will eventually.

Hopefully not too little too late, but certainly cutting it close..

 

[Sunfighter]

Mishrack -- The game wont let you go any lower than 3 planets. I think its due to the province thing. I think thats what he is complaining about. I kinda not a huge fan of it either. Especially cause you cant rename those starter planets. Plus I dont like that they are spread out on to 3 different star systems. I know this is already an established universe type deal, but meh.. not a big fan of the accelerated start.

 

[Mishrack]

Ah fair point, I'd seen the option but not actually used it yet.. in that case, apologies and point retracted! Also, have to agree with the annoyance of being unable to name that starter province n planets.. but hopefully some nudging will eventually get that fixed!

 

[Tiny Turtle]

I really don't mind the province system, I think it's pretty cool actually. I just don't really like the battles that happen within them. I just wish I could rename the ones I start with, especially when the game's stability is fixed and we can bring it into multiplayer. Both for serious games where I go crazy with flavour on planet and ship names -- and for when we're having stupid silly games and we name our ships / planets horrible, awful things.

I do want the option of renaming my capital Buttopia.

 

[unmerged(402301)]

Well, calm the crap down then. It's unfortunate that mid 2005 was when you first got into video games, despite owning a truly arcane piece of hardware. What I'm getting at is this is nothing new, and raging and claiming it's the worst thing imaginable (or I suppose the worst thing UVE SEEN) doesn't really lend a whole lot of credibility to your argument. Which re-reading it is really more of an angry rant with the grammatical quality and cohesiveness I'd expect out of a child. Or an inmate.

And I gather you haven't exactly been reading deeply on the forums, otherwise you'd know what I was referencing.

And lastly, I don't know whether to laugh at the use of the term aggravated damage or pity you for it. You're not tarnishing the reputation any more than this calamity already has, and the way you write makes it difficult to take anything informative you have to say seriously. Take a deep breath and make your point, but when people can hear you screaming without using capslock, you're not going to get any message through.

yeah all the quality Id expect from the blind fanboi later all

 

[unmerged(401472)]

Mishrack -- The game wont let you go any lower than 3 planets. I think its due to the province thing. I think thats what he is complaining about. I kinda not a huge fan of it either. Especially cause you cant rename those starter planets. Plus I dont like that they are spread out on to 3 different star systems. I know this is already an established universe type deal, but meh.. not a big fan of the accelerated start.

I never quite understood how two additional starter planets are supposed to make us feel the shift in time frame (not that I want that shift anyway, but that's personal preference). Cutting fission, sure, but two colonies? That is what, five minutes into an average game of SotS? Same goes for the starting fleets. It is okay to have additional starting colonies and a few ships from the beginning, but as a fan of SotS I really don't see how this connects to an 'era of empires'. No big deal for me, but still feels awkward.

 

[Ruanek]

Speaking of which, if your home system happens to have extra habitable planets it's weird that the first planets colonized are light years away.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

Considering the opening price of this game was 39.99. Next time your guys marketing department might want to consider calling it a opt-in paid beta, and even if you never intended to price the game higher, i would of said the 39.99 was a bit cheaper than what the retail would of been. People would buy into it, maybe not as many if you deceptively call it a release, but they sure as heck wouldnt be upset and trying to lynch everybody involved. Especially if this was a money issue release, i think youd find people would be more forgiving if you guys were more upfront about the situation. Minecraft should be a great example of an open Development company allowing the people to help develop, and support a game well before release can make a successful product.

Now as to a refund...i dont care...i dont like to be a jerk saying im rich and all..but 40 bucks isnt anything to me...it wouldnt be worth the hassle. Plus, while the game is well...early beta...i see a decent enough foundation that if you guys really do hold up your end of the bargain we could be looking at a pretty fun game someday in the future. Once you can figure out whats going on, you can see there is a lot of potential there, but its in an extremely raw state. Add in the fact that skyrim is coming out soon enough, and that my steam account has upwards of 240+ games on it...im sure i can keep myself occupied in the meantime.

What ticked me off at release the most though, was that I had waited around my computer off and on upwards of 10 hours friday, thinking a complete game was coming soon. At 2am after all that wait, it seemed like all i got was an option button greyed out. That really ticked me off no doubt about it. It stunk of deceit. If a heads up was given that it wouldnt be much better, I probably would of shurged and went out for the night. Instead I got screwed out of 10 hours of my life as i fiddled around my house doing small repairs/chores inbetween the checks of the computer.

PS. Just get what needs done, done. Time, i dont really care about... I dont need silly trinket extras. I just want the game working, spend time on that first and foremost. Nobody that wants a refund is gonna stay just because of some new art. They will be gone already. Save the time for that, into fixing 2-3 more bugs or something IMHO.

These are pretty much exactly my thoughts. 100%.

 

[unmerged(385768)]

Well i'll hang on in there....myself i went back to playing good old sots1 and will do for a couple more wks since i just discovered the ACM mod (bin playing the phoenix mod for ages) and am really enjoying it....would like to see some of the ideas from either of the mods incorperated into sots2 in the future I.E. Gunboats/Frigates, Battleships/Heavy cruisers (A personell Favorite) Burst rifles the list goes on.............Anyway im off to once again try to beat his masters voice sernorio (the one ive never yet managed to do)

P.S.Can anyone confirme the exsistance of THE BLACK(LIIR SULKRA)LV SHIP YET???

 

[mr_myrmidon]

Mr. Mecron,

Long time lurker...so long that I misplaced my Kerb forum password.

1. Next time on launch day, just come clean...we can take it. A simple: "hold off, it aint ready" would have been fine. My pre-order would not have been at risk.

I would have been spared a PC upgrade weekend (to get Win7 dual boot completed just to get SOTS running): about 30 hours of *no* pc availability) to surface and find that the game was not ready. I could have done the upgrade on non-prime personal time. This was a pretty screwed up weekend for me. Yes indeed, there is a SOTS teeshirt, delivered Friday in fact, draped on the kitchen chair. I even planned a Monday "slick day" to game like a mad man.

Now I have to scramble to tell professional peers....hold off on that SOTS 2 purchase until we get a (Mecron) Go Signal. They are mostly console boys whom I was trying to use the launch of the product, made by people who created the polished SOTS prime...and convert them to the True Faith.

I...will...provide covering fire.

2. You owned up. Best call.
I've worn two hats before...network engineer and manager both. It is not easy indeed to succeed because each demands a complete person...I fueshayed up royally in the first year...and owned up to my mistake (and fixed it) in a way that was redeeming both to me and the impacted people.

3. You committed to fix the mistake.

This is exactly...what I needed to hear. I bought all available DLCs to show my little bit of commitment.

I'm not just here because I "like computer games". I read Science Fiction constantly, took two semesters of science fiction in college (great to actually get a GRADE to read and write about Dune series), know Star Wars aint, etc. ...I bleed this sh1t man and SOTS creates a cog diss reality all its own.

SOTS...and the Arinn/SF infused in it...forever.

Up Cinnabar! Sorry had to throw that in there from the Leary books (David Drake's SF series) that I'm re-reading at the moment...

 

[unmerged(188007)]

They can apologize all they want. This was unacceptable.

They used me for my money by misleading me as to the condition of the game's launch.

I really want to post a response on his forums but they won't approve me an account. I don't want to shout, I don't want to swear and cuss him out. I don't want to vent on him.

But, just like he says he can't magically wave a magic wand and put in the features the game is missing, he can't just wave a magic wand and make it ok they he abused my trust to get my money to help him finish development. He asked for me to just shut my eyes and act like I had preordered the game and it was delayed, but that is not the case at all: I preordered only the night before and expressly so I could preload (Although, I learned no preload was available, no big deal).

If I had known this was the state it was launching in, I would not have bought it yet. I don't have the money to be buying games left and right. I certainly don't have the money to invest in a flailing dev studio. And it is compounded by the fact that in his "state of the union" post he strongly implied that the launch, although not exactly "complete", would still be a "huge, fun game" and fully playable.

And moreover, trying to guilt us, actually trying to guilt us into not pursuing refunds!? The sheer hubris!

Monday I'll decide weather to ask for a refund or not, although, I sincerely doubt paradox's honesty in that regard, so its a moot point. I know Kerberos is going to fix it. I know it'll be a good game some day. But taking advantage of his fans loyalty is unacceptable. Totally, utterly, completely unacceptable no matter how many times he apologizes for it.

^ that was my response to this on the steam forums. I want to post on the kerberos forums but as I said, I don't have my account info and there is no "lost password" form.

What's done is done. I don't want to burn anyone at the stake. I don't want anyone groveling before me or kissing my boots. I'm not even sure if I want my money back. But this was totally unacceptable. Its a complete breach of trust and I can safely say I am no longer a "Kerberos fan". I'm sure SotS2 will be good some day but they cashed in on my trust to get there.

 

[unmerged(62871)]

They can apologize all they want. This was unacceptable.

They used me for my money by misleading me as to the condition of the game's launch.

I really want to post a response on his forums but they won't approve me an account. I don't want to shout, I don't want to swear and cuss him out. I don't want to vent on him.

But, just like he says he can't magically wave a magic wand and put in the features the game is missing, he can't just wave a magic wand and make it ok they he abused my trust to get my money to help him finish development. He asked for me to just shut my eyes and act like I had preordered the game and it was delayed, but that is not the case at all: I preordered only the night before and expressly so I could preload (Although, I learned no preload was available, no big deal).

If I had known this was the state it was launching in, I would not have bought it yet. I don't have the money to be buying games left and right. I certainly don't have the money to invest in a flailing dev studio. And it is compounded by the fact that in his "state of the union" post he strongly implied that the launch, although not exactly "complete", would still be a "huge, fun game" and fully playable.

And moreover, trying to guilt us, actually trying to guilt us into not pursuing refunds!? The sheer hubris!

Monday I'll decide weather to ask for a refund or not, although, I sincerely doubt paradox's honesty in that regard, so its a moot point. I know Kerberos is going to fix it. I know it'll be a good game some day. But taking advantage of his fans loyalty is unacceptable. Totally, utterly, completely unacceptable no matter how many times he apologizes for it.

^ that was my response to this on the steam forums. I want to post on the kerberos forums but as I said, I don't have my account info and there is no "lost password" form.

What's done is done. I don't want to burn anyone at the stake. I don't want anyone groveling before me or kissing my boots. I'm not even sure if I want my money back. But this was totally unacceptable. Its a complete breach of trust and I can safely say I am no longer a "Kerberos fan". I'm sure SotS2 will be good some day but they cashed in on my trust to get there.

Absolutely 100% agreed.

By the same token, I've decided I'll stick around unless/until I have to shell out for an "options menu DLC"

Seriously, both Paradox and Kerberos have owned this problem since friday. Am I pissed that I was sold a Beta? Yes. Whould this release have been delayed? Absolutely, since it stands to hurt Kerb and Paradox once reviews of the initial build start coming out. Should we have been told what would be available Friday was a broken, halfassed, mess of code? Again, yes.

At the same time, I preordered, so either way I would have been without a working build for a few more weeks.

This release has demolished whatever respect I had for Kerberos, and seriously bruised my regard for Pdox. What happens over the next couple of weeks will be a trial for whether either gets my money again.

 

[unmerged(402301)]

Itll be a trial regardless with reviews already coming out. Angry Joe did a rather angry update titled "failure to launch" and in the reviews thread, theres another review that basically says "dont buy this game for a while"

 

[Sifer2]

So basically come back in a month an the game will be reasonably playable. Better than nothing I guess. Just in time for a retail release probably.

I'm with others that said they should have just delayed a month and opened up pre-orders with Beta access. Then at least people would not stroke about the major issues cause it was a Beta. Actually who am I kidding they would still stroke but at least reviewers could not trash your unfinished game. Where as now they can.

 

[Chat]

P.S.Can anyone confirme the exsistance of THE BLACK(LIIR SULKRA)LV SHIP YET???

Yep, this was posted on the Steam forums. But like mentioned in the thread there, he's not a Suul'ka, just a Liir Elder. Age, size or being in space doesn't make a Liir a Suul'ka, being a crazy murderous lifeform makes you Suul'ka to the Liir. Being a crazy murderous giant space whale makes you a Suul'ka to everyone else.

 

[unmerged(402235)]

I'm in for the long haul. Yes Friday was a total disaster and i was incredibly disappointed with the unfinished state of the game but through all the bugs I could see the POTENTIAL that was there. I have other games to tied me over until they can get the game stable. Hell I think many of the players still sticking around would be reasonably inclined to some bug hunting. Some already are. Hell I bought SOTS 1 when it first came out, I have the actual boxed edition here somewhere. It was a mess but it turned into something great. I have faith, I understand that mistakes happen and sometimes you have to throw a hail mary. I don't want anything from Kerberos or Paradox except the game I bought and I am perfectly happy to wait for them to deliver. Remember, sometimes its not the destination but the journey that's important.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

They can apologize all they want. This was unacceptable.

They used me for my money by misleading me as to the condition of the game's launch.
...
But, just like he says he can't magically wave a magic wand and put in the features the game is missing, he can't just wave a magic wand and make it ok they he abused my trust to get my money to help him finish development.
...
And moreover, trying to guilt us, actually trying to guilt us into not pursuing refunds!? The sheer hubris!
...
I know Kerberos is going to fix it. I know it'll be a good game some day. But taking advantage of his fans loyalty is unacceptable. Totally, utterly, completely unacceptable no matter how many times he apologizes for it.
...
What's done is done. I don't want to burn anyone at the stake. I don't want anyone groveling before me or kissing my boots. I'm not even sure if I want my money back. But this was totally unacceptable. Its a complete breach of trust and I can safely say I am no longer a "Kerberos fan". I'm sure SotS2 will be good some day but they cashed in on my trust to get there.

Another well said post. I think this pretty much covers the position of my friends and I. Don't necessarily want our money back, may play the game 6 months from now when its ready (if it even gets there), but the bridge in terms of trust/respect has most definitely been burned.

Seriously, both Paradox and Kerberos have owned this problem since friday.

To be completely accurate Paradox owned this since Friday (though they likely had more information about the state of the game than they were letting on). Kerberos didn't start owning it until mid Saturday. I realize they were tired, but there was a crucial period there where the game had come out, people had seen it was crap, and they fed out a fake story about it being a "months old pre-beta" build. In retrospect it was clearly only a days or maybe even hours old build only. That bought them 10 more hours of sales while people awaited the "real" build. It was only another several hours after that that Kerberos started to come clean.

 

[unmerged(62871)]

I have faith, I understand that mistakes happen and sometimes you have to throw a hail mary.

Please understand that this wasn't a mistake, this was a conscious decision on the dev's part to release a beta build, claim it's a release, and deal with the fallout later.

Don't confuse Kerberos' hope that their core community would carry them for honest screw-ups. Their community is strong, from what I've seen, and they got blinded by that. If this had been Ford, GE or any other company dealing in tangible goods, this would have been grounds for indictments for fraud. That it's a game means the companies involved get a pass in the eyes of the law.

I, too have faith that they'll eventually make good, so I'm staying. But whether Kerberos ever gets another single thin dime out of me is in serious doubt.