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Patch 1.2: Wot Johan said

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balmung60 said:
Nice fixes, though you might also want to mention the three countries we know will be getting idea groups.

But I've been able to surrender at no warscore by just paying off my enemies. Throw some ducats at them and they tend to roll with it.

And they'll always join coalition wars now? Oh so exploitable. Well, rest of the world, say goodbye to all of your stability forever because I'll take -3 (diplo ideas) to give everyone else -5. This only encourages further blobbing because now I can deliberately rack up AE to get a new neighbor to join the coalition, then [=DOW=] them to drag everyone else into a new war, take more land from some of them in less than five years without breaking truces, hurt my enemies even worse (-5 stab and +5 WE) and get a new enemy, all while making the old enemies hopelessly weak.
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I'm going to go ahead and assume that Paradox are not out and out stupid, and so will make truces coalition-wide rather than forcing coalition members to submit to hilarious stability penalties. Breaking your truce with any coalition member will thus allow every coalition member to pile on you stab-hit-free.
 
Tiaexz said:
"You will be able to surrender to the AI without +10 Warscore via a 'What do you want?' button"

This is so needed. Especially in the circumstances where you cannot surrender to the AI as you cannot give them anything of value to them, causing the war to drag on for years till they pretty much fully occupy you only to give a peace where they want 3 provinces you were willing to give them 5 years ago but couldn't do so.

Was so annoying, if my ally didn't peace out, I would have been able to press my own goals. I was on 9% having to wait for that tick so i could take a province worth 1 warscore, then Persia peaced out, leaving the Ottomans to smash my much smaller forces. I was willing to throw in the towel knowing i was beaten and in human games, they would peace out with you, just asking for what they want.
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Yeah, I like it. I've had a game where I owned Okinawa, Bari, Rio de Oro, Arguin and Trarza, in 1480 or so. Japan DOWed for Okinawa and sieged it and then refused a peace that gave it to them, even with all my money included.
I mean, what else can you possibly reach and occupy?
 
balmung60 said:
Nice fixes, though you might also want to mention the three countries we know will be getting idea groups.

But I've been able to surrender at no warscore by just paying off my enemies. Throw some ducats at them and they tend to roll with it.

And they'll always join coalition wars now? Oh so exploitable. Well, rest of the world, say goodbye to all of your stability forever because I'll take -3 (diplo ideas) to give everyone else -5. This only encourages further blobbing because now I can deliberately rack up AE to get a new neighbor to join the coalition, then [=DOW=] them to drag everyone else into a new war, take more land from some of them in less than five years without breaking truces, hurt my enemies even worse (-5 stab and +5 WE) and get a new enemy, all while making the old enemies hopelessly weak.
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I was under the impression that truces don't apply to joining defensive wars, am I wrong?
 
You guys are all assuming breaking a truce in a coalition would trigger the stability penalty.

Fortunately, Johan never actually said that.

All we know is that coalitions will always join in a war. It's likely being pulled into war this way circumvents the truce breaker penalty.

You guys assuming they'd implement this idiotically is hilarious though. Keep on tilting at windmills.
 
Nobak said:
I was under the impression that truces don't apply to joining defensive wars, am I wrong?
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Coalition members currently will not join a defensive war against you if they have a truce with you, allowing you to split coalitions into more manageable chunks. This is pretty obviously an exploit, but it is a tasty exploit given how bogged down the late game can get.

Still, when I think about it, it probably won't make a big difference for a lot of countries. You'll need to be more strategic and less opportunistic in selecting which countries to vassalize and groom into a blob to make sure they can hold their own militarily, and you might end up with a more 60/40 force distribution sweet spot between you/vassals rather than the 80/20 sweet spot we see now, but that's okay.
 
Nobak said:
I was under the impression that truces don't apply to joining defensive wars, am I wrong?
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No, you are correct here. Johan posted on the "Ryuku World Conquest" Thread detailing about what things they fixed. In this post

[...]
coalitions will now always join in defensively in wars, even if they got a truce
[...]
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I'd personally would also include links / posts where the things are being said in the OP. Makes it easier for people to follow where the actual information is coming from.
 
Phelan said:
Thanks Mr. Baker.

Why is this stuff not posted in this forum by PDS? I don't fancy these social media stuff. The good old forum should in my opinion the first place to post.
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This.
 
hwoosh said:
I posted this in the Ryukyu thread: I really hope that with this new mechanic the AI will be smart about temporarily disengaging from coalitions when it doesn't want to expose itself to the risk of taking a trucebreaker penalty. So the same tactics could be applied, but in a more limited way (since if you're a big enough threat, a nation may stay in the coalition regardless of its truce).
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there is no truce penalty breaking if a coalition is called... in a defensive war :)
 
kjd22c said:
All we know is that coalitions will always join in a war. It's likely being pulled into war this way circumvents the truce breaker penalty.
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Which is exactly what I am afraid of. I don't think the game will be fun for me if that happens. AI will just stick themselves into a coalition against me, and I have to fight all of them for each province.

The only way this is not going to be a clusterfuck is if I can make separate peace wiith each coalition member in order to take something from each war participant.
 
zodium said:
I'm going to go ahead and assume that Paradox are not out and out stupid, and so will make truces coalition-wide rather than forcing coalition members to submit to hilarious stability penalties. Breaking your truce with any coalition member will thus allow every coalition member to pile on you stab-hit-free.
Click to expand...
Still exploitable. In that case, if your neighbor is looking threatening, just hop onboard with the coalition they just fought to keep them from attacking for a few years because they won't break the truce (even if the coalition isn't powerful enough to stop them), and then leave just before the truce expires and rejoin when their next war ends, or attack for yourself the day it does.

And if there's no penalty for being dragged into a coalition war, then there's no reason to not be in one all of the time.

General Baker said:
Which are? I'm not all-knowing :p
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Serbia, Orissa, and Granada.
 
Lessing said:
Which is exactly what I am afraid of. I don't think the game will be fun for me if that happens. AI will just stick themselves into a coalition against me, and I have to fight all of them for each province.

The only way this is not going to be a clusterfuck is if I can make separate peace wiith each coalition member in order to take something from each war participant.
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Sorry, if you attack a coalition, they will stick together.
 
You can now add provinces to the empire, if they border a seazone bordering the empire.
 
Johan can you tell us some more nations which will get NIs?
 
Johan said:
there is no truce penalty breaking if a coalition is called... in a defensive war :)
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Still gives me ideas. Once I'm sufficiently large, I can simply use this to keep all the members of a coalition weak by just DOWing new members when they join from the AE I racked up in the last coalition war. It also lets me functionally DOW members of a coalition far more often than every 5 years, which will be extra great if you fix the thing where the AI can refuse to let the war leader negotiate in coalition wars. Still, means that I can take apart a country that would normally take 25 years in 8 years or so.

Now, if I get the truce breaker penalties for winding up at war with the same coalition more often than once every 5 years, then I'd have a lot less to work with.
 
General Baker said:
  • Coalitions will now always join in a war
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Oh s**t. So now from 1600 you will fight the same war against the same guys every five years (which adds up to... 45 coalition wars until the game ends, assuming a late date for the "so much AE no one will ever leave the coalition" defining moment)? You can't even split them anymore, to add some variation? Not too excited, honestly.

The other fixes are great.
 
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