Wow, that war against the Timmies is like a world war! You should use the stat generator to work out the losses in these wars on both sides. It'd clearly be in the 100s of thousands.
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Thanks.I gotta say, I think these Timmy wars were maybe the most difficult of any wars I've had in any EU game, even worse than fighting Burgandy as a 2PM Holland which I thought was pretty freakin hard at the time.
If I were in your position I would have already broke down and gone back to playing as France/Naples/Khemer.
Yea I played many different nations in India in HTTT, but this is my first time playing them in DW. I imagine if the Tims collapse then being Vijayanager would be a pretty easy gig, but with the Western powers getting all crazy on eachother and nobody putting pressure on them from the west, Timmies stay very strong for a long time just by virtue of size and force. I was hoping someone like GB or Castile would get a border with them and try to expand into Timmy turf because that would have made my life much much easier, but that never happened. GB did get a border early, but didn't make any attempt to grab territory from them directly.
Sooner or later I gotta play GH and try to take out -all- of Western Europe before 1500. Even Spain/Portugal.
Sooner or later I gotta play GH and try to take out -all- of Western Europe before 1500. Even Spain/Portugal.
Quite a task, sir. I wish you luck
That will be my next AAR!
Hmmkay, lemme get some updates going instead of being such a slacker.
Hmmkay, lemme get some updates going instead of being such a slacker.
That will be my next AAR!
Hmmkay, lemme get some updates going instead of being such a slacker.
You and me both....
1490-1495: Yay! No 100k timmies fighting me for 5 years!
The last war actually ended in 1889, but the Timmies were late!!! Tribal succession crisis, they didn't resume fighting until 1495.
A couple years into the break, a new King!
He made really bad changes however!
He got busy makin babies.
Then it was game on! Every man too the border! And we waited.... Tims were late!
The last war actually ended in 1889, but the Timmies were late!!! Tribal succession crisis, they didn't resume fighting until 1495.
A couple years into the break, a new King!
He made really bad changes however!
He got busy makin babies.
Then it was game on! Every man too the border! And we waited.... Tims were late!
Ok! World update at 1495-1510...
France was being very blobtastic, taking all of France asside from 2-3 opm vassals. They had most of Aragon and you just know they were goin into Castile next as typically happens at that point for France. Castile had taken everything West of Alexandria, Mams were down to about 6-7 provinces in East Africa and around their capitol and a vassal of Tims who had everything from Jerusalem East and South except Oman, also a Vassal. Revolts in Timmies freed up a few countries between 1490-1510, like a strong Mentese that then got beat back down to about 5 provinces in Turkey. OE then reformed from Mentese as a 2 PM to their West. Syria revolted and was vassalized by Tims, and GH for some odd reason had really stable borders from 1450-1500, basically exactly the same as the last world map. GB had taken part of OE in Greece, Venice had as well. Georgia revolted and was vassalized. Barbant had taken all of northern Burgandy, as well as Holland and several German minors. They would continue to get bigger too! AUGSBURG! Yes the opm in the center of Bavaria, gobbled up Bavaria and several other german minors. Austria was slightly blobby, but not much. Bohemia took a bit of Pomerania and Brandenburg, but that was it. Denmark, somehow, someway, either inherited Sweden or invaded/annexed them. I'd show you a world map from this era, but no!!! It gets much much worse, so when the updates get to the 'worse' period, I'll show you then.
France was being very blobtastic, taking all of France asside from 2-3 opm vassals. They had most of Aragon and you just know they were goin into Castile next as typically happens at that point for France. Castile had taken everything West of Alexandria, Mams were down to about 6-7 provinces in East Africa and around their capitol and a vassal of Tims who had everything from Jerusalem East and South except Oman, also a Vassal. Revolts in Timmies freed up a few countries between 1490-1510, like a strong Mentese that then got beat back down to about 5 provinces in Turkey. OE then reformed from Mentese as a 2 PM to their West. Syria revolted and was vassalized by Tims, and GH for some odd reason had really stable borders from 1450-1500, basically exactly the same as the last world map. GB had taken part of OE in Greece, Venice had as well. Georgia revolted and was vassalized. Barbant had taken all of northern Burgandy, as well as Holland and several German minors. They would continue to get bigger too! AUGSBURG! Yes the opm in the center of Bavaria, gobbled up Bavaria and several other german minors. Austria was slightly blobby, but not much. Bohemia took a bit of Pomerania and Brandenburg, but that was it. Denmark, somehow, someway, either inherited Sweden or invaded/annexed them. I'd show you a world map from this era, but no!!! It gets much much worse, so when the updates get to the 'worse' period, I'll show you then.
1495-1510: Turning the corner: The last massive Timmy war part 1!
I kept mousing over the Tims to see what was going on. Revolters on my border seemed more serious and took him longer to get rid of this time around. Several new countries showed up as war targets, and I knew revolts were breaking a few nations free here and there. This was a -GOOD- thing! As time passed leading up to the war, the Timmies eventually subdued all the countries who'd sprung free, but for the first time I saw them truely in a weakened state.
On my side of the border, things were going much better. With several new provinces added and many more old provinces cored up, my nation was pretty solid and revolts were few and far between. I now held the western edge of the mountain range giving me a tremendous tactical advantage, allowing my forces to descend down into the plains and hit his recovering units while they were at reduced strength and in open terrain. My army was bigger, my economy was stronger, and my manpower was higher.
A beacon of civilization had risen to the west. An OPM Iraq had revolted free and been vassalized. It was a long distance away, but if I could reach them...! For an Indian tech group to westernize to Muslim, they need a 25 tech level advantage, which they had. It was a distant light, but there was definitely light at the end of the tunnel! And then it began.
As anticipated, I dulled the tip of the Timurid spear against the solid rock of the western mountains. Again and again, my troops drove down on his retreating stacks, crushing them in the open.
It was still a hard fight and I still took heavy losses, but the enemy was never able to put pressure on me like they had in the past. Much of the time his units broke off their attacks when I started sending in reinforcements. Without a large troop advantage, the Tim armies backed off on their mountain attacks. Once in a while they'd come in huge force, but in a series of fights they'd be driven back, scattered, and slaughtered in the lowlands.
Because I was now able to destroy stacks more often than not rather than simply pushing them back, it took him longer to recover and send in new attack waves. The first two Provinces captured were economically poor, but strategically critical. Two more mountains leading west, and giving me an easy striking position on Hormuz. When his stacks showed up to retake the COT province, I could sweep in from those mountains and crush him, and did so on several occasions.
The Tims tried very hard to drive me out of those mountains, and did on a couple of occasions. Usually, they just bled themselves out in the attempt.
Every magistrate for a many decades had been going into building up my country. I'd hired whatever random advisors were available, but with fewer and fewer Indian tech nations thanks mostly to me, the options became increasingly limited and eventually I had none at all.
Despite a definite edge in the combat, I was making extremely slow progress due to my low yearly colonists. It was in the 7th year of the war that I took a third province, Hormuz. I found it hard to place merchants with Oman, over 10 levels higher in tech, having a monopoly there. A knew I'd get Fars later so I destroyed the COT out of spite. Why not simply embargo them you ask? Because I couldn't even see them yet right on the other side of the water. It was just a mysterious place where unbeatable merchants came from. Depriving the Tims of this province was a huge victory! It was the first good economic/manpower province they'd lost on their Eastern front.
The battles were much the same, over and over. Huge stacks would attack me in the mountains, and usually they'd be driven back. Sometimes they'd be supported by fresh stacks preventing me from wiping them out, other times not. Herat became a giant cemetery where many of those retreating armies were destroyed. I lost a couple stacks here as well when surprise enemy reinforcements showed up.
Things changed around 1505. I'm not sure exactly what had happened, but the Tim army on my front started beefing up, and huge piles of stacks were roaming about forcing me to be group stacks into 20-30k. Several armies were wiped out by this new surge, and frequently I was the one in retreat. My manpower had held around 60% for most of the war, but it was in a sharp decline with this new heavy force in my area. Attrition was taking a toll in the mountains where armies over 8k usually suffer losses. When his huge stacks hit my smaller 10k stacks, they died before reinforcements could arrive, so doubling up stacks was my only option, but my WE was definitely on the rise at this time, running between 5-10. Revolts started breaking out again and that was definitely not a good sign.
Both countries were under some strain from the war, but in different ways. I was able to crush most of his new mega-armies by throwing everything at them one at a time, and the drop in force strength triggered some vassals to restart wars and some revolters flipped provinces away from him. The pressure I was feeling was a steady rise in WE with the new increased level of violence and attrition.
By 1510 I was one province away from Fars, and as mentioned before, my missionaries were throughout this game faster/luckier than I've ever seen in any other EU game.
And that... is part 1 of this update.
I kept mousing over the Tims to see what was going on. Revolters on my border seemed more serious and took him longer to get rid of this time around. Several new countries showed up as war targets, and I knew revolts were breaking a few nations free here and there. This was a -GOOD- thing! As time passed leading up to the war, the Timmies eventually subdued all the countries who'd sprung free, but for the first time I saw them truely in a weakened state.
On my side of the border, things were going much better. With several new provinces added and many more old provinces cored up, my nation was pretty solid and revolts were few and far between. I now held the western edge of the mountain range giving me a tremendous tactical advantage, allowing my forces to descend down into the plains and hit his recovering units while they were at reduced strength and in open terrain. My army was bigger, my economy was stronger, and my manpower was higher.
A beacon of civilization had risen to the west. An OPM Iraq had revolted free and been vassalized. It was a long distance away, but if I could reach them...! For an Indian tech group to westernize to Muslim, they need a 25 tech level advantage, which they had. It was a distant light, but there was definitely light at the end of the tunnel! And then it began.
As anticipated, I dulled the tip of the Timurid spear against the solid rock of the western mountains. Again and again, my troops drove down on his retreating stacks, crushing them in the open.
It was still a hard fight and I still took heavy losses, but the enemy was never able to put pressure on me like they had in the past. Much of the time his units broke off their attacks when I started sending in reinforcements. Without a large troop advantage, the Tim armies backed off on their mountain attacks. Once in a while they'd come in huge force, but in a series of fights they'd be driven back, scattered, and slaughtered in the lowlands.
Because I was now able to destroy stacks more often than not rather than simply pushing them back, it took him longer to recover and send in new attack waves. The first two Provinces captured were economically poor, but strategically critical. Two more mountains leading west, and giving me an easy striking position on Hormuz. When his stacks showed up to retake the COT province, I could sweep in from those mountains and crush him, and did so on several occasions.
The Tims tried very hard to drive me out of those mountains, and did on a couple of occasions. Usually, they just bled themselves out in the attempt.
Every magistrate for a many decades had been going into building up my country. I'd hired whatever random advisors were available, but with fewer and fewer Indian tech nations thanks mostly to me, the options became increasingly limited and eventually I had none at all.
Despite a definite edge in the combat, I was making extremely slow progress due to my low yearly colonists. It was in the 7th year of the war that I took a third province, Hormuz. I found it hard to place merchants with Oman, over 10 levels higher in tech, having a monopoly there. A knew I'd get Fars later so I destroyed the COT out of spite. Why not simply embargo them you ask? Because I couldn't even see them yet right on the other side of the water. It was just a mysterious place where unbeatable merchants came from. Depriving the Tims of this province was a huge victory! It was the first good economic/manpower province they'd lost on their Eastern front.
The battles were much the same, over and over. Huge stacks would attack me in the mountains, and usually they'd be driven back. Sometimes they'd be supported by fresh stacks preventing me from wiping them out, other times not. Herat became a giant cemetery where many of those retreating armies were destroyed. I lost a couple stacks here as well when surprise enemy reinforcements showed up.
Things changed around 1505. I'm not sure exactly what had happened, but the Tim army on my front started beefing up, and huge piles of stacks were roaming about forcing me to be group stacks into 20-30k. Several armies were wiped out by this new surge, and frequently I was the one in retreat. My manpower had held around 60% for most of the war, but it was in a sharp decline with this new heavy force in my area. Attrition was taking a toll in the mountains where armies over 8k usually suffer losses. When his huge stacks hit my smaller 10k stacks, they died before reinforcements could arrive, so doubling up stacks was my only option, but my WE was definitely on the rise at this time, running between 5-10. Revolts started breaking out again and that was definitely not a good sign.
Both countries were under some strain from the war, but in different ways. I was able to crush most of his new mega-armies by throwing everything at them one at a time, and the drop in force strength triggered some vassals to restart wars and some revolters flipped provinces away from him. The pressure I was feeling was a steady rise in WE with the new increased level of violence and attrition.
By 1510 I was one province away from Fars, and as mentioned before, my missionaries were throughout this game faster/luckier than I've ever seen in any other EU game.
And that... is part 1 of this update.
Awesome update! These wars are shockingly bloody. Of course, if you'd been playing as the Ottomans or Europeans it would have been plain sailing after about 1450 because your troops would improve.
Great AAR!
Great AAR!
1510-1525 The last massive Timmy war part 2: The rise of Hindustan!
With the Timmy war capacity low, many nations in the west broke their tributes or vassal status and rose up against the Horde. A few last rushes were thrown my way, but for a time the Tims were gone from view or had only a small token force to fight against me. The bulk of their army was now spread acros all fronts, and only a fraction of it's original size. Still dangerous to be sure, but it would be a continous theme from now on. The Tims would go put down revolts, return after lengthy periods and then I'd give them a good thrashing and their war capacity would drop, again resulting in war time for their many unwilling vassal states and tribute givers. I also got a new King in 1510, and this high admin leader would surely be at the helm to westernize my nation! Or at least I hoped.
With the long absense of Tims, I started sieging and exploring his vacant country. Rebels were a frequent problem! I was seriously considering ditching military drill in favor of colonial ventures, but the extra morale was the only real advantage I'd had besides the mountains in my last 100 years of fighting, and occasionally a good sized stack would march into view and require me to retreat and regroup to put it down or chase it into the unknown. I didn't know how big the Tims still were at this point, But I could see in the war screen that they'd rebuilt their army. I just didn't know where it was most of the time!
Pegu in the East had turned into a monster without anyone to slow their advance in any meaningful way. I had a naval advantage however that allowed me to move up to 20k at a time from my western front to the east, and with mil drill, a 20k stack would likely be enough to hold them back until another 20k stack could arrive. Although they warned me twice, they always smartly opted for an easier target. I actually prefered having a monster Pegu who kept things quiet over the 15 troublesome nations that often drug me into their problems and distracted me from the Tims.
I tried to stay focussed on my task, and expand slowly along the coast towards Iraq. With Laristan flipping to me, I was now only two provinces away. Soon, Vijayanager would be one tech group less backward!
Fars was next in my chain of provinces to take. I was spreading my force out a bit too far at this point, both to avoid attrition and to put down revolts that were popping up in my territory both in India, and the provinces I occupied. This resulted in some losses when out of the unknown would suddenly come a stack of 20-30k Tims and crush a smaller 5-10k stack that had been fighting/chasing rebels.
A new heir allowed me to relax a bit knowing that I'd have at least a chance to continue westernizing if I could make it even further before he died. It was becomming clear to me however that my trickle of colonists would take me several decades or possibly a century to get west enough for that to happen.
Then... 'it' happened. In every game there are ups and downs, but there is always that one pivotal event which often seems insignificant at the time. but ends up leading to great success or abysmal failure. I'd been pumping 100% into land since 1414 or so when I hit gov 4. There are no land unit upgrades for Indian tech until 15, and it finally arrived. At that instant, my cav went from crude to world beating, and I'd never lose another fight except where the odds were -very- extreme to a non-western tech nation. The Indian Musketeers were ok, but not on par with other tech groups.
If you've never seen the stats on Indian Shock Cav... well, it's gamebreakingly good in 1514. Most Indian nations get it in the 1650's which is about where it should be. I actually filed a bug report about them because they're -that- good.
A couple years later, still waiting for colonists, I got a rather unpleasant visit from some never-friendly outsiders. Well, there goes the neighborhood.
Is it just me, or does it seem like -any- nation I play is bound to end up in conflict with the Spaniards? I didn't know it at the time, but France had taken over half of Iberian Castile, so they were probably homeless sailors looking for a place to dock. Anyhow, back to the update.
I was finally able to colonize my way all the way to Iraq! But... I was now only 23 tech levels behind. No slightly westernized Hindus for me! Yet. I did however get a consolation prize which I liked even better. I cored the last province I needed to become Hindustan!!!
It was great! It was awesome! It was... oh, all my colonies disapeared. I almost cried. Remember, no save-reloads allowed! Mega-bummer. No lie, I had 4 colonies at over 900 that had been very very slowly growing for about 10 years roughly. No westernized me so no NI to help colonize, and now no colonies.
I am a pretty hyper person. The constant war with Tims and rebels everywhere, I was ok with that. The boring I have no tech, no more pitched battles with Timmies, no idea what craziness the Euopeans are up to while I wait for decades for slow colonization game was not going to work for me. I contemplating breaking my no CB rule and just attacking my way west-ish. I considered pouring corrosive chemicals on my computer. I considered several things before realizing the answer was right in front of me the whole time. Revolts!!
I let revolters go crazy and capture my occupied Tim turf and let them take one of my provinces as well. While this was going on, I started using my new cores!
I was happy. Nay, Ecstatic! I squirmed around in my chair stomping peoples into the ground in the East. I fought Pegu a couple times when they participated in wars they shouldn't have and they peaced out quick after quickly losing stacks. It was great!
The rebels created countries for me to annex. My very slow grind was suddenly replaced by expansion on both fronts.
The Persia I annexed was too large at first, so I had to sit on them for quite some time for the annex cost to drop, but that's for the next update.
With the Timmy war capacity low, many nations in the west broke their tributes or vassal status and rose up against the Horde. A few last rushes were thrown my way, but for a time the Tims were gone from view or had only a small token force to fight against me. The bulk of their army was now spread acros all fronts, and only a fraction of it's original size. Still dangerous to be sure, but it would be a continous theme from now on. The Tims would go put down revolts, return after lengthy periods and then I'd give them a good thrashing and their war capacity would drop, again resulting in war time for their many unwilling vassal states and tribute givers. I also got a new King in 1510, and this high admin leader would surely be at the helm to westernize my nation! Or at least I hoped.
With the long absense of Tims, I started sieging and exploring his vacant country. Rebels were a frequent problem! I was seriously considering ditching military drill in favor of colonial ventures, but the extra morale was the only real advantage I'd had besides the mountains in my last 100 years of fighting, and occasionally a good sized stack would march into view and require me to retreat and regroup to put it down or chase it into the unknown. I didn't know how big the Tims still were at this point, But I could see in the war screen that they'd rebuilt their army. I just didn't know where it was most of the time!
Pegu in the East had turned into a monster without anyone to slow their advance in any meaningful way. I had a naval advantage however that allowed me to move up to 20k at a time from my western front to the east, and with mil drill, a 20k stack would likely be enough to hold them back until another 20k stack could arrive. Although they warned me twice, they always smartly opted for an easier target. I actually prefered having a monster Pegu who kept things quiet over the 15 troublesome nations that often drug me into their problems and distracted me from the Tims.
I tried to stay focussed on my task, and expand slowly along the coast towards Iraq. With Laristan flipping to me, I was now only two provinces away. Soon, Vijayanager would be one tech group less backward!
Fars was next in my chain of provinces to take. I was spreading my force out a bit too far at this point, both to avoid attrition and to put down revolts that were popping up in my territory both in India, and the provinces I occupied. This resulted in some losses when out of the unknown would suddenly come a stack of 20-30k Tims and crush a smaller 5-10k stack that had been fighting/chasing rebels.
A new heir allowed me to relax a bit knowing that I'd have at least a chance to continue westernizing if I could make it even further before he died. It was becomming clear to me however that my trickle of colonists would take me several decades or possibly a century to get west enough for that to happen.
Then... 'it' happened. In every game there are ups and downs, but there is always that one pivotal event which often seems insignificant at the time. but ends up leading to great success or abysmal failure. I'd been pumping 100% into land since 1414 or so when I hit gov 4. There are no land unit upgrades for Indian tech until 15, and it finally arrived. At that instant, my cav went from crude to world beating, and I'd never lose another fight except where the odds were -very- extreme to a non-western tech nation. The Indian Musketeers were ok, but not on par with other tech groups.
If you've never seen the stats on Indian Shock Cav... well, it's gamebreakingly good in 1514. Most Indian nations get it in the 1650's which is about where it should be. I actually filed a bug report about them because they're -that- good.
A couple years later, still waiting for colonists, I got a rather unpleasant visit from some never-friendly outsiders. Well, there goes the neighborhood.
Is it just me, or does it seem like -any- nation I play is bound to end up in conflict with the Spaniards? I didn't know it at the time, but France had taken over half of Iberian Castile, so they were probably homeless sailors looking for a place to dock. Anyhow, back to the update.
I was finally able to colonize my way all the way to Iraq! But... I was now only 23 tech levels behind. No slightly westernized Hindus for me! Yet. I did however get a consolation prize which I liked even better. I cored the last province I needed to become Hindustan!!!
It was great! It was awesome! It was... oh, all my colonies disapeared. I almost cried. Remember, no save-reloads allowed! Mega-bummer. No lie, I had 4 colonies at over 900 that had been very very slowly growing for about 10 years roughly. No westernized me so no NI to help colonize, and now no colonies.
I am a pretty hyper person. The constant war with Tims and rebels everywhere, I was ok with that. The boring I have no tech, no more pitched battles with Timmies, no idea what craziness the Euopeans are up to while I wait for decades for slow colonization game was not going to work for me. I contemplating breaking my no CB rule and just attacking my way west-ish. I considered pouring corrosive chemicals on my computer. I considered several things before realizing the answer was right in front of me the whole time. Revolts!!
I let revolters go crazy and capture my occupied Tim turf and let them take one of my provinces as well. While this was going on, I started using my new cores!
I was happy. Nay, Ecstatic! I squirmed around in my chair stomping peoples into the ground in the East. I fought Pegu a couple times when they participated in wars they shouldn't have and they peaced out quick after quickly losing stacks. It was great!
The rebels created countries for me to annex. My very slow grind was suddenly replaced by expansion on both fronts.
The Persia I annexed was too large at first, so I had to sit on them for quite some time for the annex cost to drop, but that's for the next update.
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All wars are shockingly bloody to the soldiers, but yea, in a historical sense, the Muslim/Hindu wars were on a biblical sort of level with entire populations being completely exterminated at times. There are ruins in Persia and other regions in that area where huge thriving cities one day were completely wiped out the next and still not a soul lives there many centuries later.
OE actually can beat Tims fairly handily on day one, already having superior troops and good defensible territory. The trouble they have (Or I've had when playing them) is that you'll usually be fighting GH also by 1401, and Spain, France, GB and others will probably jump in too when your war capacity drops due to the size of your enemies. Even so, they can beat them all back without too much trouble. OE units at game start are the best.
Great update! You're right, Indian Shock Cavalry is damn good...and might explain why I suffered a defeat to Vijay in the 1680s...but could massacre them in the 1730s!