Epidemic system i beg you

[Foke]

Pretty please have a system for epidemics. If the start date is 1337 (as it surely seems) we are just 9 years away from the black death - which totally wrecked Europe.
Also considering how devastating it was to native people in the Americas, I feel like epidemics are too important for this time period to be left out as a mechanic.

 

[Lord Lambert]

We have a pop system... I fear for my people...

 

[theJalden]

Johan hinted at disease wiping out population in TT#3. And having a game that covers the period of the Black Death without a disease mechanic would be a missed opportunity. As you said, it's not just the Black Death, there were several echos of the Bubonic plague every generation or so, though to a much more muted degree. And of course the diseases that swept through the New World were likely the largest in world history at ~90% mortality.

 

[alexkowal123]

Pretty please have a system for epidemics. If the start date is 1337 (as it surely seems) we are just 9 years away from the black death - which totally wrecked Europe.
Also considering how devastating it was to native people in the Americas, I feel like epidemics are too important for this time period to be left out as a mechanic.

watching the americas get decimated every time will get very depressing. Maybe have a very low chance that ahistorically they had immuno resistance to western diseases? This would aid the replayability and keep it fun. I think having very low chances of ahistorical things happening, like china spawning industrial revolution (maybe look at the conditions China would have needed to start it, assuming province goods remain constant), would stop every game seeming like an eventuality. The black plague should probably have almost the same effect each time, but later into the game have chances of ahistoricality

Much later edit: I think this should be an optional game rule, this appears to address the bulk of the criticism, along with a stubborn love for history

 

[AkaronDaran]

From a simulation perspective, it would be interesting if there were temporary pops or pops with temporary tags. That could be used to create a basic SIR model, the population growth could then also result in non-scripted repetitions (If I remember correctly). But how the performance is and whether that is fun is another question.

 

[capetown2]

watching the americas get decimated every time will get very depressing. Maybe have a very low chance that ahistorically they had immuno resistance to western diseases? This would aid the replayability and keep it fun. I think having very low chances of ahistorical things happening, like china spawning industrial revolution (maybe look at the conditions China would have needed to start it, assuming province goods remain constant), would stop every game seeming like an eventuality. The black plague should probably have almost the same effect each time, but later into the game have chances of ahistoricality

Love this idea, maybe a gamerule too? I personally want random New World to make a resurgence.

 

[Johan]

that is going to be such a fun dev diary to write

 

[alexkowal123]

that is going to be such a fun dev diary to wr

I'm really excited to see what you guys come up with if you do decide to go a little ahistorical. Basically the big questions of history

 

[Valleyland]

It could be that countries like Venice, which will probably get some kind of better epidemic "control" than other countries (If the game follows a more historical path), perhaps will be OP. Since more population = more money, soldiers, production, etc... IMHO

 

[alexkowal123]

watching the americas get decimated every time will get very depressing. Maybe have a very low chance that ahistorically they had immuno resistance to western diseases? This would aid the replayability and keep it fun. I think having very low chances of ahistorical things happening, like china spawning industrial revolution (maybe look at the conditions China would have needed to start it, assuming province goods remain constant), would stop every game seeming like an eventuality. The black plague should probably have almost the same effect each time, but later into the game have chances of ahistoricality

Why do some people not like this idea? I can’t think of it

 

[fireandplague]

Why do some people not like this idea? I can’t think of it

Because the population genetics and immunosensitivies of native Americans were already determined thousands of years prior. There was literally no way they could have prevented being decimated by waves of pandemics. Even literally 21st century -level science and technology could not have fully prevented it.

 

[alexkowal123]

Because the population genetics and immunosensitivies of native Americans were already determined thousands of years prior. There was literally no way they could have prevented being decimated by waves of pandemics. Even literally 21st century -level science and technology could not have fully prevented it.

That’s why I said ahistorical. There could’ve been a chance that native Americans had diseases similar to European ones and were resistant to them. (Depending on whether you believe in determinism). We sort of view historical events as certain to happen, when many extremely unlikely things happened that had massive effects (based on the knowledge we had/have). It opens the question what if? I would only want the big questions of history have one or two alternatives that were relatively unlikely, so the historical reality happens most the time

 

[Lord_Baltimore]

I have a hard time seeing how you have a serious plague mechanic for the Americas without turning colonization into a noob trap. 'Congratulations on conquering the rich a populous land of Mexico. Enjoy the next century of plague!' would make a lot of players angry. But maybe the devs have figured out a way to make it work.

 

[fireandplague]

That’s why I said ahistorical. There could’ve been a chance that native Americans had diseases similar to European ones and were resistant to them. (Depending on whether you believe in determinism). We sort of view historical events as certain to happen, when many extremely unlikely things happened

The premise of the game is that the map and situation of the world at the start date is the point of divergence, which means that everything before is OTL historical. If you want alternate history before the start date, we should also have Dagobert VI of the Merovingians controlling Francia, the final frontier against the Mongol Empire that stretches from from Trier to Beijing.

 

[Eruth]

That’s why I said ahistorical. There could’ve been a chance that native Americans had diseases similar to European ones and were resistant to them. (Depending on whether you believe in determinism). We sort of view historical events as certain to happen, when many extremely unlikely things happened that had massive effects (based on the knowledge we had/have). It opens the question what if? I would only want the big questions of history have one or two alternatives that were relatively unlikely, so the historical reality happens most the time

I would hate if this were an RNG chance that sometimes randomly threw my whole game history out of whack, but I'd be fine with it as a game rule.

 

[CthulhuTactical]

That’s why I said ahistorical. There could’ve been a chance that native Americans had diseases similar to European ones and were resistant to them. (Depending on whether you believe in determinism). We sort of view historical events as certain to happen, when many extremely unlikely things happened that had massive effects (based on the knowledge we had/have). It opens the question what if? I would only want the big questions of history have one or two alternatives that were relatively unlikely, so the historical reality happens most the time

There is no hard evidence of epidemics or widespread disease in south america. None of conquistador relations like Cortes or Pizarro letters mention any disease, illness or affliction decimating large swaths of indian population. Could be added as optional start setting if someone fancy to add it to their game.

 

[alexkowal123]

There is no hard evidence of epidemics or widespread disease in south america. None of conquistador relations like Cortes or Pizarro letters mention any disease, illness or affliction decimating large swaths of indian population. Could be added as optional start setting if someone fancy to add it to their game.

My point is that there could have been a history of epidemics in South America, a somewhat random/arbitrary thing, and this would’ve changed history substantially

 

[alexkowal123]

I would hate if this were an RNG chance that sometimes randomly threw my whole game history out of whack, but I'd be fine with it as a game rule.

I agree, I think it should be elevated to an optional game rule and be very limited with the examples

 

[alexkowal123]

The premise of the game is that the map and situation of the world at the start date is the point of divergence, which means that everything before is OTL historical. If you want alternate history before the start date, we should also have Dagobert VI of the Merovingians controlling Francia, the final frontier against the Mongol Empire that stretches from from Trier to Beijing.

That’s why I’ve said it should be an optional game rule which only includes the big questions of history, not whether the grand Duke of Luxembourg was left footed

 

[Oglesby]

Games rules are not a Panacea that some people feel it is.