France would DoW, except I think I will DoW them. France is allied with Papal States and Austria. I think I will join that alliance soon. But I will eventually break up the alliance for hopeful annexation of France.
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The empires looking quite good...so is it back off to war or are you going to risk the possible civil war?
I must admit Im alittle surprised your land tech is so high compared to the Eurpoeans
I must admit Im alittle surprised your land tech is so high compared to the Eurpoeans
@TRD Gold is the only thing that can keep a pagan competitive tech wise vs europeans. Which he got lots of...
You are making some nice progress. Are you going to grab Portugals tps in the next war?
You are making some nice progress. Are you going to grab Portugals tps in the next war?
IIRC civil wars happen only at 0 and lower stability, the lower the more likely. Quite a tremendous leap you made from South America to South Africa and France. The challenge now is to control RR and stability with the growing purple blob. It reminds me of Byzantium... 
I'm going to war again. If stability is less than +1, I must stay at war to prevent civil war. So I think I will DoW France. Keeping war exhaustion low is the real challenge since I have such low manpower.
Gold is the reason for being able to keep up with the Europeans in land tech. Land tech is my main investment. I am woefully behind in naval tech. That becomes a problem in moving troops around the seas. I really need naval tech 9 or 10.
I would not want to grab Portugal's trade posts until there is nothing else I could get from them. I may as well allow Portugal to build some colonies as they may choose. If I grab the trade posts, Portgual might burn them during the following war after I grab them.
Gold is the reason for being able to keep up with the Europeans in land tech. Land tech is my main investment. I am woefully behind in naval tech. That becomes a problem in moving troops around the seas. I really need naval tech 9 or 10.
I would not want to grab Portugal's trade posts until there is nothing else I could get from them. I may as well allow Portugal to build some colonies as they may choose. If I grab the trade posts, Portgual might burn them during the following war after I grab them.
I was attempting WC with some native americans, the last one was Zapotec (AGC-EEP 1.09 vh/f). I failed, becouse i never play twice the same country (so i couldn't solve errors) and becouse i always use "never withdraw from battles" self imposed rule. Another reason was, that Spain have grown bigger in that game than it usually does. Or maby i just screwed it up... nevermind. My attempt ended in beginning of XVIII century with just a few counquered european provinces in Denmark and Scotland.
My deduction is that the most important thing during such a game is wasteing as little tech investment as possible (wasteing by whiteman and isolation penalty). This requires lot of counting and planning with details contacts with europeans and map sharieng.
Second deduction was that navy is more important to american natives than to any other country in the world. Using dozens of galleys in a single group was bringing successes despite the hudge technology gap. This was bringing maps and warscore.
Another hints may be that AI will accept peace with any warscore, if it don't controll any provinces and some time passed since the last battle and that you need a victim country to torture (loot and take indemnities).
I never got a random conquistador nor explorer, although (according to FAQ) this was possible.
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I did calculations and i found that unless an EU2 state has more than ~200 provinces, investing in anything else than land tech will not improve land tech. The best way to have the highest possible land tech is investing all income in land tech.
In my Zapotec game i had the second best land tech in the world in XVII and XVIII century.
My deduction is that the most important thing during such a game is wasteing as little tech investment as possible (wasteing by whiteman and isolation penalty). This requires lot of counting and planning with details contacts with europeans and map sharieng.
Second deduction was that navy is more important to american natives than to any other country in the world. Using dozens of galleys in a single group was bringing successes despite the hudge technology gap. This was bringing maps and warscore.
Another hints may be that AI will accept peace with any warscore, if it don't controll any provinces and some time passed since the last battle and that you need a victim country to torture (loot and take indemnities).
I never got a random conquistador nor explorer, although (according to FAQ) this was possible.
edit:
I did calculations and i found that unless an EU2 state has more than ~200 provinces, investing in anything else than land tech will not improve land tech. The best way to have the highest possible land tech is investing all income in land tech.
In my Zapotec game i had the second best land tech in the world in XVII and XVIII century.
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For those wanting to try it at home, Tom has hit on a key aspect of play for the South American natives: use your first conquistador to find the Portuguese, not the Spanish. The reason here is that (a) the whiteman penalty is hard to get rid of, except if you know a COT, and then it's easy. (It should have gone even faster; just keep sending to the same COT and whiteman drops IIRC.) And (b), getting maps is vital to ditch the isolation penalty. For WC attempts, I think it's also important to get Brazil because of the difficulty in crossing the ocean with low naval tech.
I would not have tried to explore all of the Portuguese area first, though. You can find them pretty fast via Argentina. After that, go for the route to Central America, and doubly with a very early conquistador.
Tom I am curious about your decision to not develop Bogota. You say you feared an immediate war with Spain if they colonize next to it. I've never noticed that. I always "see" them first (via borders), then explore and meet them, and try to get MA ASAP so I can raise hell in their lands.
I would not have tried to explore all of the Portuguese area first, though. You can find them pretty fast via Argentina. After that, go for the route to Central America, and doubly with a very early conquistador.
Tom I am curious about your decision to not develop Bogota. You say you feared an immediate war with Spain if they colonize next to it. I've never noticed that. I always "see" them first (via borders), then explore and meet them, and try to get MA ASAP so I can raise hell in their lands.
Wreck said:
I believe he was just very lucky that he got a conquistador. Another thing is that you have to remove all isolation/whiteman in one month, to don't let your tech level bar reach its end before removing all penalties (dows are necessary). Neighboring province is a 100% chance of getting DoWed by Spain.
Nice exploit is to use MA to place troops on positions and then leave Spanish alliance. They will surely DoW, so you get controll over their provinces in the first day of war.
"Neighboring province is a 100% chance of getting DoWed by Spain."
Presumably only if they have discovered a your neighboring province? I'm sure I've met them and not had them DoW me. I'm not absolutely sure they weren't already at war, though.
Presumably only if they have discovered a your neighboring province? I'm sure I've met them and not had them DoW me. I'm not absolutely sure they weren't already at war, though.
I lost 40000d for land tech 2. If you play a gold rich country, it is hard to tell which is better: to minimize tech penalties by investing in multiple techs or to research full toward land tech. If you invest in multiple techs, you may end up paying penalties in multiple techs if you do not get maps and eliminate whiteman early enough. If you reseach full toward land tech, you likely accept the 40K penalty.superhero said:
The use of a good navy makes up for some of the low manpower and low army size. With enough ships you can get the men where they need to be faster. However, when the AI has firepower on ships, a pagan navy is not likely to be able to successfully take on more than two or three ships at a time. More ships may be annihilated in multiple battles; but that doesn't help war score.superhero said:
I am not sure where the 200 provinces comes from. I suppose you mean that if you are big enough you can invest in things other than land tech because to do anything else would bring the ahead of time penalties on you.superhero said:
My first priority was to find Portugal in Brazil. I had the conquistador so early that Portugal had only just begun to build trade posts. I could have eliminated the whiteman soon after finding Portugal; but that would lower my tech penalties by so much that I may have paid an isolation tech penalty on land tech 3.Wreck said:
My second priority was to discover Spain. Spain was just starting to build trade posts in Argentina; so going down to Argentina was a good idea. I discovered the inland Brazilian provinces on the way south because Portugal sometimes does not discover or build in some of the inland provinces. It is important to have discovered those inland provinces once the ToT kicks in because the explorations are often necessary when moving troops around in Brazil. Brazil is important for sendind troops across the Atlantic at low naval tech as you pointed out.
The third priority was to gain as good of ratio of known provinces for map exchanges. Using the infantry units to discover Portugal's Brazilian provinces helped in that regard. So the immediate discovery of Brazil makes perfect sense. I do not see how I could have done better.
Yes, developing Bogota would have made sense in this game. Because of the manpower issue (which I was not concerned with at first), even if there was a war with Spain, it could make sense. There is a good chance of a war with Spain if Spain borders a pagan and knows of the nation's capital. Spain would not know of my capital at first it is true. However, as soon as a gift was sent to Spain, Spain might DoW unless the timing was right and Spain was already at war with some other country.Wreck said:
Yes, you want to remove all tech penalties in one month if you research multiple techs instead of researching fully in land tech. You can get by for a while with only some tech penalty removed when land tech 2 is already had at the 40K tech penalty. In this game, I got four of five whiteman for sending five merchants. So DoWs might not always be required (if you can get five whiteman from six merchants.superhero said:
Edit: If I were to try Chimu again, I would not go centralized and would stay at war and at maximum war exhaustion the whole game after the BB wars had begun. So I would go Free Trade and Narrowminded instead. I would spend more effort on colonizing early, although I would not colonize much above 1000 inhabitants except in some provinces that were likely to reach the 20K range within a reasonable time-frame. I would definitely colonize Bogota early and pay the consequences of a possible early war with Spain.
This thread is officially abandoned.
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