AHD DD6 – China

[Kalelovil]

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On the topic of China and the Great Powers, have you done anything to dissuade Britain from launching massive land invasions into Tibet and Yunnan and annexing large parts of China?
With China broken up into substates (even though they will help each other in any war, I doubt they will be as effective) this may only get worse.
This didn't happen historically, largely because China and Tibet were cut off from Burma and India by massive mountain ranges and thick jungles, with only occasional mountain passes or jungle tracks. Yet in Victoria 2 it is not unlikely to see Britain send 100 000 soldiers through these areas and into China, which would have been impossible historically because of the terrain and disease. Even in WW2 this proved a very large obstacle.

Perhaps increase the attrition these areas have (and give the AI a better understanding of attrition) or simply make the areas impassable.

 

[Fryz]

Hmmm.. My feeling is quite Weijun's, that's not really accurate but in game-play term that sounds not bad.

But to tell the truth, China does deserve an own expension.

Splitting China? It's a good thing this forum is blocked there, otherwise the crazed nationalists would be all over this thread complaining about it.

Oh, I'm sorry to tell you, the forum is not blocked IIRC

 

[Hyzhenhok]

Got anything modeling the Taiping Rebellion? If the US civil war has an inevitability system, there should be something similar for China. This substate system seems like an easy way to implement it, by having some sort of mechanism where substates go independent and attack the Emperor (with two possible conclusions: becoming Emperor themselves, or being forced bac into submission).

 

[kaspar42]

I hope you also have big changes planned for the whole SoI-minigame, otherwise I fear substates will just add more micromanagement.

 

[TheArchMede]

I look forward to the Fashoda incidents.

 

[Arilou]

Hmmm, not the most elegant solution but I guess it works?

It would definitely be nice to have it extend to British India, and possibly Japan, though. (considering the lead-up to the Meiji restoration and all)

 

[podcat]

I hope you also have big changes planned for the whole SoI-minigame, otherwise I fear substates will just add more micromanagement.

stay tuned for future diaries

we have talked about maybe using substates for other things, but have not done so. We will see how well they work during testing to see if its worth it.

 

[pacja]

Very nice feature imho, the old "all or nothing" was a bit excessive. The reworked colonial tensions are promising too, i hope there will be more administrative features for colonies too, to make the player feel he's really building (or exploiting, in the opposite case) something.

Question: when you got at war with China to conquer a substate with a proper CB, the warscore will be calculated over the whole China or the substate? In many games I leave China to its own just because it's boring to occupy so many provinces before reaching enough WS to grab land.

 

[podcat]

Question: when you got at war with China to conquer a substate with a proper CB, the warscore will be calculated over the whole China or the substate? In many games I leave China to his own just because it's boring to occupy so many provinces before reaching enough WS to grab land.

the whole. this is an even tighter bond than a puppet. I dont see any reason china would give it up. we will however tweak how warscore is handled a bit because I'm not 100% happy with it (eg occupying canada for 50 years etc)

 

[pacja]

we will however tweak how warscore is handled a bit because I'm not 100% happy with it (eg occupying canada for 50 years etc)

Nice. Guess you already have plans about how to do this, anyway I'd suggest something like the warcapacity of EU3 or the manpower of HoI3: once it gets too low, China (Russia, Canada, USA, Brazil... it could be applied to every extended country) should consider the war lost, unbinding more the warscore criteria from land without raising the +25 battle cap. Being unable to hire more troops or having millions of men slaughtered should tell the AI clear and loud that the war is over, like an enemy flag over the capital city.

 

[Chamoisking]

Interesting feature. From that, i suggest 2 more things:
- India is a substate of Great Britain. So the British won't spam hundreds of brigades from Indians and ship them to England.
- Uncrossable border. Same as Sengoku and CK2.

 

[Gloa]

Nice, this should help model China better (leading up to less control and ability to stop warlords from forming [which I assume are still separate TAGS, right?], perhaps stopping the successful China's from just smashing through Central Asia and the like*, and of course keeping China from being SoI'd all in one piece). Are there any changes to the Boxers to capitalize on these changes (calling in GP's influencing any part of China, having substates decide whether to fight the boxers or not?)?

*Which perhaps would allow them to be balanced stronger so they don't lose to invasion as easily (the whole British Xinjiang/Yunnan problems) without making them an unciv behemoth.

They are playable, although it is perhaps not the most interesting game. So far only China has Substates. Tibet is not a Substate, but it is a puppet. Yunan's colour may change, but it's hard to make it visibly different while still yellowish, if you have a nice RGB value I can certainly try it. This is the only major colonial change.

I used these colors to some success (I did cheat a bit by repeating some of the same or very similar colors between regions which didn't border each other).
color = { 253 225 145 }
color = { 248 225 156 }
color = { 255 241 166 }
color = { 248 234 151 }
color = { 246 223 140 }
color = { 246 220 149 }
color = { 255 234 154 }
Some of them might not be high enough contrast (I was aiming for easy to see borders when zoomed in, but a united looking China when zoomed out all the way), but some of them might be helpful I hope.

Using only those colors I got:

Spoiler

mixing a few of the more distinct ones together with some of the ones already in the China screenshots you guys showed would give much better contrast (although it would look a bit less color-unified when fully zoomed out). Hopefully at least one of them will fit well to replace Yunnan's orange (Manchuria is also a bit off looking in my opinion - the rest are very nicely colored, though).

 

[1alexey]

You took away my "I win" buttom. Bastards!!!

 

[Jimmy Turbo]

Wouldn't making the East India Company a substate of GB be a good idea as well?

Could do the same thing with the Hudson's Bay Co. in Western Canada as well.

 

[Tormodius]

I really think the drawing is cool, and it depicts the situation in the era. However the artist seems to be french, and has drawn the persons representing germans and british as very aggressive and funny looking. And has drawn the person representing France as a beautiful woman just watching in the background. Haha, thats so hilarious

Also looking forward to this expansion btw

 

[Dyranum]

Nice. Guess you already have plans about how to do this, anyway I'd suggest something like the warcapacity of EU3 or the manpower of HoI3: once it gets too low, China (Russia, Canada, USA, Brazil... it could be applied to every extended country) should consider the war lost, unbinding more the warscore criteria from land without raising the +25 battle cap. Being unable to hire more troops or having millions of men slaughtered should tell the AI clear and loud that the war is over, like an enemy flag over the capital city.

I disagree. The battle system is already bad for China. The fact that China can lose so many men without being affected should mean that defeats, losses and the like should not be worth as much as for smaller countries with a bigger focus on quality. It just enables Britain to more easily seize regions from China.

 

[Thormodr]

Sounds like some quite positive changes.

 

[Jaol]

Looks great!

Are there going to be commands and triggers for sub-states? If so, then modders could probably create events to partition other places. Also, will there be a trigger that tests if a nation is colonizing a province?

In terms of other candidates for substates, what about the Ottomans?

 

[podcat]

Looks great!

Are there going to be commands and triggers for sub-states? If so, then modders could probably create events to partition other places. Also, will there be a trigger that tests if a nation is colonizing a province?

In terms of other candidates for substates, what about the Ottomans?

There are separate triggers for substates yeah

 

[keynes2.0]

This is gonna be such a great mechanic from a modding standpoint. I'm imagining the British Empire with India, Ireland and Hannover as substates. Hungry and the CSA could be substates from their overlords when secessionism starts boiling to the surface. Finland, Norway and Egypt could all start as substates and potentially take different paths.