AHD DD2 – Railroads and Tradegoods

[Communazi]

I've also never contemplated the lack of a locomotive industry.. I think mountain/forest/swamp terrain should be able to support trainlines earlier, however their effectiveness should be penalized by the power (or lack thereof) of the locomotives that the country is using. In the early days, they just could not haul their way up steep inclines at a reasonable pace.

There is also the matter of clearing swamps, deforestation and blasting through mountains which could be linked to other techs. Still doesn't change the fact that if you can't produce explosives, wouldn't you just buy them from another country anyway? maybe just increase the material requirements for certain terrains, and add penalties based on life-rating.

 

[safferli]

It should probably be unlocked via military tech. I'm saying this because Prussia was the first to use railways for military purposes in the 1860's and it gave them a massive advantage during the Austro-Prussian War.

There is a military tech for that already.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

I think I've been waiting for changes to railways since I first got the original Victoria

I'm going to disagree with the others and say that I agree with making difficult terrain require a higher tech level. Because that's exactly what it took - better bridges, more powerful locomotives. I'm not sure about reducing the efficiency by as much as three levels as suggested, but at least conceptually it makes sense - rail in mountainous terrain is going to by necessity be less efficient, and perhaps more importantly have less coverage.

 

[fenwayb]

There is a military tech for that already.

but does it actually do the same thing?

 

[fenwayb]

I wonder if maybe cost couldn't be a constricting factor as well; with enough resources anything could be done, but who would pay say, a hundred thousand, or just "lots" for a level 1 railway in a barren mountain range somewhere?

A capi

edit: sorry bout the double post.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Any chance of requiring factories to be upgraded in order to take advantage of new techs? It might make life more difficult for powers like Britain that already have a large industrial base in 1836 but historically were unable to remain world's best practice once competitors like Germany and the USA hit their stride.

I already suggested that product quality should have an effect on the profitability of your manufactured goods but that may be beyond the scope of an expansion.

 

[yodaime]

I'd like to see some nerf to South American nations, historically at beginning of 20th century they were far from being Great Powers for most cases. Yet each game I see Ecuador, Chile, Venezuela, Colombia etc lined up at 8-16 places..It's really a bit strange. Maybe nerf the amount of immigrants whole central and south Americas get ?

 

[deoved]

Coal? Will railroads use coal?

 

[1alexey]

Coal? Will railroads use coal?

And electricity!
and Diezel!

 

[Faeelin]

I don't know... it seems like this is just adding more complications, and not addressing things like the strange way literacy works, the weird dynamics in America (it never ends up as the world's strongest industrial power, and it requires numerous wars to grab the OTL Mexican cession), and the oddities in the global economy, which mods like PDM have managed to vastly improve after significant trial and error.

So unless I'm wrong, it seems like these changes would toss out all of that work; what's being done to ensure the economy doesn't end up as wonky as it was when Viccy was first released?

 

[Sayd]

Here is another thought- don't make building railroads from level 1, then level 2, then level 3. Instead, when you own a no-railroad province and want to build railroad there, it would make better sense just to build max level railroad you have in the province.

+1! It would be nice change. Also we should be able to build forts and naval bases to desired level too, not level by level. And factories too. Also building railroad shouldn't stop us from building fort or naval base!

 

[1alexey]

Also building railroad shouldn't stop us from building fort or naval base!

This is questionable. The wirkforse is not infinite, so one can siply not have enought workers to build everything for tham at same time.

 

[Lys91]

I don't know... it seems like this is just adding more complications, and not addressing things like the strange way literacy works, the weird dynamics in America (it never ends up as the world's strongest industrial power, and it requires numerous wars to grab the OTL Mexican cession), and the oddities in the global economy, which mods like PDM have managed to vastly improve after significant trial and error.

So unless I'm wrong, it seems like these changes would toss out all of that work; what's being done to ensure the economy doesn't end up as wonky as it was when Viccy was first released?

It's a dev diary about railway and change in production interface. Those issues would probably be covered in an other one ...

 

[Grubnessul]

This is questionable. The wirkforse is not infinite, so one can siply not have enought workers to build everything for tham at same time.

But at least we should be able to queue it.

 

[Carewolf2]

The terrain changes to railroads sounds great, but to keep with the terrain idea. What about giving a base/minimum infrastructure boost to coastal and river provinces. Before railroad they were the natural center of industrialization since only by river or sea could goods be transported. They could start with something similar to level 2 railroad bonus, but which becomes less relevant as other provinces get rails.

 

[siis]

Since it looks like railroads will be more important for economy and military, can someone destroy enemy railroads during a war to cripple their economy/military mobility?

 

[Grubnessul]

Did that ever happen? AFAIK most of the time the railroads were used by the invading army, like the Germans did in Belgium in WWI. Or they were converted as the Soviets did in the 1920 war v Poland, but in both instances, they were used to bring supplies and reinforcements to the front.

 

[Kalelovil]

Did that ever happen? AFAIK most of the time the railroads were used by the invading army, like the Germans did in Belgium in WWI. Or they were converted as the Soviets did in the 1920 war v Poland, but in both instances, they were used to bring supplies and reinforcements to the front.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman's_March_to_the_Sea is the commonly used example. I'm not sure how common it was, if it happened only on a few notable occasions events should be capable of simulating it.

 

[WeissRaben]

I'd like to see some nerf to South American nations, historically at beginning of 20th century they were far from being Great Powers for most cases. Yet each game I see Ecuador, Chile, Venezuela, Colombia etc lined up at 8-16 places..It's really a bit strange. Maybe nerf the amount of immigrants whole central and south Americas get ?

Mmmmh. It should depend MORE on the starting nation - Italy gave so many emigrants to South America that, to this day, 60% of Argentina has Italian ancestry, 19% of Brazil can say the same thing, and 5% of the USA are Italo-American (at least in ascendence). 25 MILLIONS people departed, in 80 years. As of now, immigrants/emigrants depart...why? It is a tad too easy, I'd say. :3

 

[Kalelovil]

...

The speed up of troops a poster previosuly mentioned should take the form of replacing the units movement value with a new one while in provinces with railroads, rather than a percentage modifier.

Using the example of two units, infrantry with a base speed of 4 and hussars with a base speed of 7.
A level one railroad should give a base speed of, say, 14 to all units using it rather than a percentage of modifier which would result in trains carrying horses nonsensically travelling twice as fast.
When moving into a province with enemy units, even if both provinces have railways and/or it is one of your controlled provinces, the units base speed should be used rather than the railway speed as the units move from the railhead to the battlefield and so that the speed advantage of cavalry in tactical situations will still be advantagous.

Secondly, divide railroad level into two parts, railroad technological level and railroad coverage. Railroads should also be their max technological level when built (and perhaps be automatically upgraded when there is the cash or capitalists to do so) but their coverage would start at level one and be upgraded by government and capitalists normally. Higher coverage would be needed to support greater numbers of troops using them and more heavily developed industrial area.
For example, a level 5, coverage 1 railroad in a province would have the same effect on a 10 000 man army and/or low level factories in a province as a level 5, coverage 5 railroad, but would give a smaller percentage effect (and the same absolute effect) to a 200 000 man army marching through or high level factories in a province compared to a level 5, coverage 5 railroad.

I would suggest Paradox add a rudimentry supply system into Victoria 2 requiring rolling stock to be built and maintained in order to receive the rail unit movement speed rather than their typical speed. For example, each 10 000 men moving in rail provinces would require one theoretical unit of rolling stock in order to receive that. The groudn work already exists in HOI3.
If that is too much to ask for, have each level of railroad coverage in a province support giving the railroad movement speed to, say, 50 000 men at once.