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Gone a week, and I miss one of the most exciting things so far! As far as I can tell, Galliblaere survived the fighter massacre eh? :D I suppose this means we stand at a crossroads, either expand on fighters, or go with ships with lots of tubes. And yeah, we need to massively invest in long range sensors and targeting.
 
Capt. Kiwi said:
The devastating alpha strike is not so much about damage, it's about getting through PD. We were getting about 25 missiles per 40 missile salvo on target; if they had any kind of functioning PD they might have been able to cut that enough that we'd have been out of missiles before they were out of ships. Since PD can only handle so many targets at a time, the idea is to swamp it to improve the proportion actually doing anything.
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Indeed, if the Prix hadn't fired their PD missiles at the fighters (an unfortunate side effect of their range being rather long and our missile range being somewhere on the side of pitiful) then they would, we can assume, have had 19 AMM fired every 5 seconds, against out own missiles with a minutes run time. Even assuming that they have a FC for each PD missile tube that still means they'd be able to take down 228 missiles. Which would be our entire Alpha strike and change. Against large enemy fleets, especially with interlocking PD capabilities, having a large Alpha strike is essential. And for a large Alpha strike nothing can beat Large Carrier groups early to mid-game for their versatility and also the fact that they're cheap to produce.

And once they get box-launchers and our techs increase to the point where the range of their FC and missiles are increased then the Alpha Strike they can deliver can be devastating whilst still leaving you with a fighter that's going to push over 10,000 km/s and have a range that covers an entire solar system. Combined with specialised Recon fighters with active sensors that means you can have a Carrier task force jump in system dark launch fighters and then just sit and wait, allowing for virtually zero-risk engagements against even the most dangerous of foes.
 
Exept for the part with fighters moving with 10k km/s and beeing able to fly through the hole starsystem and then also being able to do some damage...

Even with much higer tech, for fighters being able to fly at 10k km/s they can't be much heavier than 250 maybe 300 tons. a small fueltank brings a range of roughly 500 million km, so you basicly need a normal 50 tons fuel tank for the range you intend. After the engines are build in the fighter is basicly full. How do you want to put weapons in it?
 
Depends on the techs you go after. I've managed to field fighters which weigh in at 255 tons, armed with four box launchers firing size four missiles, and a FC that allows for engagement at 44 million kms. All with a flight range of 0.7 billion kms (an entire solar system might have been a slight exaggeration) using high powered ion engines that give them a top speed of 7,500 km/s.

Edit: Here's the actual design:

Code: 
Typhoon class Fighter-bomber    255 tons     3 Crew     48 BP      TCS 5.1  TH 38  EM 0
7450 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 2.4
Annual Failure Rate: 51%    IFR: 0.7%    Maint Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 15 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years
Magazine 16    

FTR Ion Engine E1100 (1)    Power 37.8    Fuel Use 11000%    Signature 37.8    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 0.6 billion km   (23 hours at full power)

Fighter Box Launcher Mk1 (4)    Missile Size 4    Hangar Reload 30 minutes    MF Reload 5 hours
Missile Fire Control FC44-R85 (1)     Range 44.7m km    Resolution 85
Grasshopper Anti-Ship Missile (4)  Speed: 22,500 km/s   End: 33.3m    Range: 45m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 75 / 45 / 22

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

I even toyed with producing a Light fighter with only 2 missile hard points as that put its speed up a fair whack and allowed the addition of extra fuel tanks:
Code: 
Harrier class Light Fighter    200 tons     3 Crew     43.7 BP      TCS 4  TH 38  EM 0
9500 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 1.2
Annual Failure Rate: 40%    IFR: 0.6%    Maint Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 17 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years
Magazine 8    

FTR Ion Engine E1100 (1)    Power 37.8    Fuel Use 11000%    Signature 37.8    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 1.6 billion km   (47 hours at full power)

Fighter Box Launcher Mk1 (2)    Missile Size 4    Hangar Reload 30 minutes    MF Reload 5 hours
Missile Fire Control FC46-R70 (1)     Range 46.4m km    Resolution 70
Grasshopper Anti-Ship Missile (2)  Speed: 22,500 km/s   End: 33.3m    Range: 45m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 75 / 45 / 22

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
 
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"Maint Capacity 0 MSP" means that if you blow on them and they break, or do it spontaneously (which they will), they're dead in the water.

I much p\refer my current 2 designs.

Bombardier class Fighter 345 tons 6 Crew 79.3 BP TCS 6.9 TH 16.8 EM 0
6956 km/s Armour 1-4 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2.4
Annual Failure Rate: 0% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 144 MSP Max Repair 24 MSP Est Time: 35 Years
Magazine 16

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E800 (1) Power 48 Fuel Use 8000% Signature 16.8 Armour 0 Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres Range 0.7 billion km (26 hours at full power)

Size 8 Box Launcher (2) Missile Size 8 Hangar Reload 60 minutes MF Reload 10 hours
Missile Fire Control FC30-R130 (50%) (1) Range 30.1m km Resolution 130
Size 8 ASM-plasma-2 (2) Speed: 46,500 km/s End: 7.8m Range: 21.8m km WH: 9 Size: 8 TH: 341 / 204 / 102

Active Search Sensor MR20-R130 (50%) (1) GPS 2080 Range 20.1m km Resolution 130
Click to expand...

Vinator class Fighter 330 tons 5 Crew 78.7 BP TCS 6.6 TH 16.8 EM 0
7272 km/s Armour 1-4 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 3
Annual Failure Rate: 8% IFR: 0.1% Maint Capacity 15 MSP Max Repair 24 MSP Est Time: 3.29 Years
Magazine 20

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E800 (1) Power 48 Fuel Use 8000% Signature 16.8 Armour 0 Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres Range 0.7 billion km (26 hours at full power)

Size 4 Box Launcher (5) Missile Size 4 Hangar Reload 30 minutes MF Reload 5 hours
Missile Fire Control FC30-R130 (50%) (1) Range 30.1m km Resolution 130
Size 4 ASM-plasma-2 (5) Speed: 39,400 km/s End: 7.1m Range: 16.9m km WH: 4 Size: 4 TH: 394 / 236 / 118

Active Search Sensor MR20-R130 (50%) (1) GPS 2080 Range 20.1m km Resolution 130
Click to expand...
 
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i´m not bothering with armed fighters until i reach a certain tech level. but at start i design a light unarmed fighter,as cheap as possible, so i can assign more naval officers to train.
 
stamasd said:
"Maint Capacity 0 MSP" means that if you blow on them and they break, or do it spontaneously (which they will), they're dead in the water.
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I was under the impression that fighters don't need any Maint. Capacity, as their carriers provide maintenance for them whilst they're docked and given that they'll only ever be operating outside the Carriers for at most 24-48 hours the chances of a failure occuring during so short a time period is pretty close to zero. I based most of my starting designs of SteveW's own designs in his Nato vs Soviet AAR, and he doesn't bother putting any Maintenance into his fighters either.
 
BwenGun said:
I was under the impression that fighters don't need any Maint. Capacity, as their carriers provide maintenance for them whilst they're docked and given that they'll only ever be operating outside the Carriers for at most 24-48 hours the chances of a failure occuring during so short a time period is pretty close to zero....
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i thought the same
 
Personally in my starting game I prefere a small FAC for the same role:

Sparviero tipo A class Fast Attack Craft 600 tons 46 Crew 118 BP TCS 12 TH 42 EM 0
10000 km/s Armour 3-6 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 4
Annual Failure Rate: 120% IFR: 1.7% Maint Capacity 0 MSP Max Repair 52 MSP Est Time: 0 Years
Magazine 16

GB Ion Engine E70 (1) Power 120 Fuel Use 700% Signature 42 Armour 0 Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 8.6 billion km (9 days at full power)

Size 2 Missile Launcher (25% Reduction) (8) Missile Size 2 Rate of Fire 1500
Missile Fire Control FC13-R50 (1) Range 13.6m km Resolution 50
SAETTA mod. B - ASM (8) Speed: 25,000 km/s End: 8.7m Range: 13.1m km WH: 4 Size: 2 TH: 158 / 95 / 47
Click to expand...

Tipe B carrying active sensors:

Sparviero tipo B class Fast Attack Craft 600 tons 48 Crew 136 BP TCS 12 TH 42 EM 0
10000 km/s Armour 3-6 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 2
Annual Failure Rate: 120% IFR: 1.7% Maint Capacity 0 MSP Max Repair 52 MSP Est Time: 0 Years
Magazine 8

GB Ion Engine E70 (1) Power 120 Fuel Use 700% Signature 42 Armour 0 Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 8.6 billion km (9 days at full power)

Size 2 Missile Launcher (25% Reduction) (4) Missile Size 2 Rate of Fire 1500
Missile Fire Control FC13-R50 (1) Range 13.6m km Resolution 50
SAETTA mod. B - ASM (4) Speed: 25,000 km/s End: 8.7m Range: 13.1m km WH: 4 Size: 2 TH: 158 / 95 / 47

Active Search Sensor MR4-R10 (1) GPS 160 Range 4.0m km Resolution 10
Active Search Sensor MR12-R100 (1) GPS 1600 Range 12.8m km Resolution 100
Click to expand...

Not maintance cause they are very short ranged and operating nearby Bases or Carriers,
eventually I would put a fighter engineering section on them once I got reserched it.

EDIT: at lower techs FACs give me more freedom in designing I think

EDIT 2: just tested I can put a small engineering (0.5 HS) for 1 layer less of armour, getting this:
Annual Failure Rate: 5% IFR: 0.1% Maint Capacity 70 MSP Max Repair 52 MSP Est Time: 6.34 Years
Click to expand...
 
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Iche_Bins said:
Wait, wasn't I stationed on earth on a radar station oO
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You WERE, yes. All of the characters with the highest Fighter Ops bonus got drafted either onto the Carriers or into the Fighter Squadrons, before we set sail.

Quift said:
But so far it's the missiles meant to be used by the fighters, and transferred to the other ships that has given us actual offensive capabilities.
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This. We started this missiom with 48 ASMs loaded on Agincourt, 32 loaded on each of the five Attitude-IIs (160 total), 24 loaded on each of the Star-IIs (120 total), 3 loaded on each Fighter (180 total), and 60 loaded on each Mountain-II (360 total). That's 868 ASM missiles. I tried to record in the thread each salvo we fired, and the number of missiles in it. We have 179 missiles left, and we're not out of the system yet. That's fewer missiles than the Fighters brought aboard, mounted on their wings.

One suggestion is to build some dedicated Tenders, that can move at fleet speed, have no armament but some PD, and carry massive numbers of reloads for the rest of the fleet.

Galleblære said:
As far as I can tell, Galliblaere survived the fighter massacre eh?
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Yes. Some players were not shot down, others were rescued by the Rocks before they were driven off my Bandits 2 and 3.

Capt. Kiwi said:
The devastating alpha strike is not so much about damage, it's about getting through PD.
Click to expand...

Right.
 
We run.

Our odds against Khan 001 are just not acceptable. So we (try to) make this a victorious hit and fade raid.
 
blue emu said:
You WERE, yes. All of the characters with the highest Fighter Ops bonus got drafted either onto the Carriers or into the Fighter Squadrons, before we set sail.

One suggestion is to build some dedicated Tenders, that can move at fleet speed, have no armament but some PD, and carry massive numbers of reloads for the rest of the fleet.
Click to expand...

Ah, well good thing I did ... happily join the fightercorps ;)

I agree with you, also give that ship some maintainance supplys, more than it needs, it can happen that your fleet needs to guard an jumpgate or something till you can station something more permanent there, than you will need it...
 
Guillaume HJ said:
We run.
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Correct. We GTFO. We have only three full salvos left. Will that be enough to kill that big bastard? I'm not planning to stick around and find out. We'll come back here later, with repaired armor, full magazines and full hangars.

... assuming that we can safely get out of here in the first place.
 
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When we come back to nail Khan, we'll probably want to bring a few more Battle-class (they should be able to shrug off quite a few size-1 missile impacts) - I believe we have some building, don't we?

Also some spare Rock-class.

And lots of NPCs flying fighters.
 
Ah, well good thing I did ... happily join the fightercorps
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You were not just a Fighter Pilot, by the way... you were a Squadron Leader (hence, a Captain)... and as far as I know, the only survivor of your Squadron.

... so if you wanted to, you could add to your signature:

Sole Survivor of Squadron #6, 'Night Owls', destroyed a Prix Cruiser to end the battle in Blue Emu's forum game 'Ad Astra'

Count Lake can add:

Vaporized by friendly fire in Blue Emu's forum game 'Ad Astra'
 
Are you sending one of the rocks to pick up surviors while everyone runs for the exit?
 
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