I have literally never had to trade for oil in any paradox game. The only time I ran out of oil in a MP game as Germany I just had Italy/Romania give me 100 fuel a day and that solved all my issues. Also if you do make oil more scarce in HOI4, can you please allow us to choose which units get fuel. I can imagine it would be extremely frustrating to have what little fuel you have left go to a garrison in Paris and not your panzers near Moscow.
Will oil continue to be worthless in HOI4?
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Eh, if you haven't exhausted an 80,000 fuel stockpile in six months, you really aren't trying hard enough in HOI3. 
That being said, the lengths I had to go through to make Germany run out of fuel are the kind of thing bears looking into for HOI4. I'm personally hoping that it will cost fuel to train and maintain tanks and planes and ships even while idle and at peace. That way, you can't simply refuse to use any fuel for years on end until the war breaks out.
That being said, the lengths I had to go through to make Germany run out of fuel are the kind of thing bears looking into for HOI4. I'm personally hoping that it will cost fuel to train and maintain tanks and planes and ships even while idle and at peace. That way, you can't simply refuse to use any fuel for years on end until the war breaks out.
IIRC, Podcat confirmed that you will need synthetic fuel plants to make oil (unlike automatic conversion from energy in HoI3), so countries will be much more dependant on oilfields, when in HoI3 auto conversion from energy was enough for many countries.
Eh, if you haven't exhausted an 80,000 fuel stockpile in six months, you really aren't trying hard enough in HOI3.
That being said, the lengths I had to go through to make Germany run out of fuel are the kind of thing bears looking into for HOI4. I'm personally hoping that it will cost fuel to train and maintain tanks and planes and ships even while idle and at peace. That way, you can't simply refuse to use any fuel for years on end until the war breaks out.
I said I did run out of fuel once as Germany in an MP game, I had to build 200 armor brigades and motorize the entire infantry army to do it. But even in that game the Axis overall had 0 oil problems because my allies didn't use any oil themselves so they gave everything to me.
In HOI IV there will be no more stockpiles, or if there are for oil, they will be very very small, so I think oil supply will be pretty important
Agree with theop. Lets hope having access to oil is worth. In my hundreds of hoi 3 games i have just run out of oil once. With Japan, and it was caused by the supply system doing weird things.
I also agree with the OP, in all my HoI2:AoD games the Axis have never run out of oil - even with a Germany having 63 armoured divisions. From the above posts it seems HoI3 did not resolve this.
It was abstracted a bit, obviously. From gameplay and AI POV. Theoretically you should be able to starve UK from oil, as it relied only on external sources, and don´t need to tell that was impossible in other HOIs. It isn´t about Germany only.
Then there are also the aspects of how well trade is done, how money "works" and therefore, how ultimatedly oil works as a commodity. Removing money from the game is particularly dangerous because of this.
Finally, realistic synthetic oil requires also a more realistic industrial model.
Let´s see how they handle all that in this version
Then there are also the aspects of how well trade is done, how money "works" and therefore, how ultimatedly oil works as a commodity. Removing money from the game is particularly dangerous because of this.
Finally, realistic synthetic oil requires also a more realistic industrial model.
Let´s see how they handle all that in this version
There were several problems with oil in HOI3. The first and main one was that there was no tech necessary to unlock synthetic oil, it happened for every country automatically as a fraction of your total IC, so even countries like Tibet and Oman were awash in home-made synthetic oil, in addition to any natural oil production they might have. Second, the quantities which were produced were more than sufficient to fuel practically anything short of an all-mechanized army for any country, and you only needed to worry about running out if you were actively using large quantities of air and naval assets (Japan could run out if you worked at it). There was no need for Germany to worry about taking the Caucasus, dragging Romania into the Axis, or pursuing aims in the Middle East and North Africa, because the "all important" oil simply wasn't needed. As if that wasn't enough, you could stockpile more than enough before the war to last until the game's ending date, even if you did run a deficit when hostilities broke out; with no real use for cash reserves you could buy a bit of oil from several sources who essentially had few or no other buyers to compete with you.
HOI3 was a "historical war on rails", with the reasons for many of the historical strategic decisions removed, so the course of the war made little sense from a purely game-play perspective. The handling of Oil as a strategic concern (or the failure to handle it well) was one of the biggest offenders.
HOI3 was a "historical war on rails", with the reasons for many of the historical strategic decisions removed, so the course of the war made little sense from a purely game-play perspective. The handling of Oil as a strategic concern (or the failure to handle it well) was one of the biggest offenders.
It's been stated by Podcat and the devs in many places, although all of us immediately questioned how they were going to do fuel and supplies then, which wasn't answered. Basically all materials no longer have a stockpile, and factories needing those materials start having efficiency issues producing whatever they are doing (from the lowest item in queue first).
This solves the biggest problem which is Island stockpiles like UK, where even if you built an extremely large submarine force it could take an entire year for the UK to run out of materials stockpiled at 99,999 even those they haven't had a single convoy come to island in 8 months.
I think a stockpile of some sort will be required, if only as AI crutch. Even if small.
IMO, there will be stockpile for fuel and supplies, but they will be limited to size that is reallistic. Other resources wont be stockpiled.
I generally agree with you, but with the caveat that stockpiling before the war was, in large measure, a function of "We don't need POL products while units are idle and at peace." Massive Luftwaffe with specialist training? Who needs fuel to train those pilots? Massive IJN with 12 Yamato BBs and 60 DD flotillas built between 36 and 41? Who needs fuel to train those crews and test those ships? Hey Soviets, how come you have so much fuel boiling over your stockpile cap? What's that? You have built and trained 20 armored corps between 1936 and the start of Barbarossa, and it cost you no fuel at all, so you don't care if Germany grabs or destroys the Caucus oil fields?
The thing about fuel in HOI3 is that even when tanks and planes are completely idle (even though they may not have been historically that idle) is that fuel isn't just burned in the fires of internal combustion engines. It also represents all the maintenance stuff like oil changes and grease for gears outside of engines. You can't really skip maintenance on a Tiger or Panther, even if its sitting around doing nothing. Which it shouldn't be, even at peace.
There is no more stock piling in HOI4 so things will be different from the get go, your not going to have that 80000 stockpile.
I don't know where your getting this information, but it's wrong from what I've read. Podcat confirmed there were going to be no stockpiles, and we suggested adding supply depots that can store materials, but they will cost materials to build and maintain.
Oil and supplies also was raised as they are primarily consumed when on the move or at war, so no stockpiles on these 2 products would be hard. Nothing was ever stated about this.
As far as production the plan is if you run out of materials like Steel, then the bottom factories are affected first, up until the amount of factories needing X amount of steel you don't have. This will be a decreasing efficiency over a small amount of time which represents that factories historically kept stockpiles of goods, just as we do today. They will not be immediately impacted a great deal, but if supplies continually stay low then those factories will not be able to replace those stockpiles and production will need to be reduced.
The amount and speed at which production is dropped is not known nor has it been discussed, however it will drop over time.
I went back and looked and you are right. I think I was having some selective / wishful thinking memory. For sure the devs state in the production diary that you can't stockpile...Going to remove my post..
S
Iirc, we will have a small stockpile, but not the huge stockpile you could get in hoi 3
Ps. Oh, i see i am wrong
Iirc, we will have a small stockpile, but not the huge stockpile you could get in hoi 3
Ps. Oh, i see i am wrong
Good points Darth+. This is a serious matter.
1. Historically, war-aims have always been about the seizure of enemy resources and stockpiles of raw materials, like oil, manganese, chromium & coal etc.
2. Plunder and looting are significant drivers for war-fighting -- if you cannot loot them and carry them back to your own industrial areas to benefit your war aims, what is the point?
3. If you cannot seize them -- then how do you target them, thus interdicting or degrading your enemies abilities for war-fighting if you cannot bomb his steelworks, ball-bearing factories or blow up bridges and infrastructure?
4. Such omissions or limitations on a strategy & conquest game like HOIIV must be addressed in a realistic manner.
Relevance: Failure to do so may detract from the gameplay and make it less attactive for buyers, many who have been long-term supporters of the brand.