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cholliman

First Lieutenant
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Jun 30, 2012
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First off, apologies if what I'm going to outline is obvious - it only just occurred to my yesterday!

The objective is to form the Netherlands. I've done this with the OPMs, and they have always been extremely rough playthroughs for me, and was looking to try something a bit different. As is obvious, Burgundy can easily form the Netherlands, but up until now the thought of jettisoning territories to France made it unappealing to me as having a strong France just to your south with territories you gave it just sounds bleh. This is easily countered though by making a pair of vassals to absorb your French region provinces prior to the tag change.

Step 1. Take the mission to save the Burgundians in Barrois, and declare war straight away before Provence can get any allies. Barrois is going to be your vassal to absorb your Burgundian home provinces + Rethel that are in the French region. As a note, there is a region mapmode that will show you which provinces are in danger of loss.

Step 2. Prepare for a fight with the French. Assuming that France wins the HYW, they are likely to attack you next - well at least that is what happened to me. When they declare war on you, your objective is to have them release Normandy. Depending on the circumstances, i.e. if they have both Normandy and Caux you might just want to take 1 province yourself and release it manually, but in my playthrough England was still holding onto Caux and Calais at this point. Your manpower is not that high this early in the game, so try and get this objective and peace out.

Step 3. Prepare for Netherlandsification! Finish taking Gelre, Utrecht and Friesland. If you can setup a situation where you have a truce with Austria by assisting an ally, that would be the perfect time to pounce. Otherwise wait until Ze Emperor is at war with some other larger powers and make your play. Also finish your borders on the western part of your nation by finishing off any missing piece of Normandy and taking Calais. Depending on how strong you feel, I would probably wait on taking Liege until after switching tags.

Step 4. Vassals prep. Normandy is going to consist of Normandy, Caux, Picardie and Calais. Barrois should get Barrois, Rethel, and your core Burgundian provinces Bourgogne, Nevers, etc. Unfortunately, since Franche-Comte is imperial territory, Barrois will not purchase it from you so this is the 1 province you will lose to France. Also note, you can't sell everything to Barrois in 1 batch as you will have to give it some time to core before selling it the rest of your Burgundian lands - I made this error in my playthrough.

Step 5. Hit the form the Netherlands decision! As a note, if you reincorporate Barrois, Burgundian will NOT be an accepted culture in your nation. Addidionally, you will be a member of the empire now, which actually turned out advantageous as you get the Imperial Integrity bonus and in my playthrough I united the various Rhineland minors under my banner without having to fight the emporer as well - though I did manage to create some megaCoalitions against me.

Notes:
For my idea groups I chose 1. Offensive 2. Exploration. Colonization is great as with this megaNetherlands as you completely own the Antwerp trade node and have a direct connection to the Chesapeake. Not having diplomacy is a huge annoyance though as having only 4 diplomatic relations is very confining. You could easily to choose to forgo colonization and just be a European power, in which case I would say go 1. Diplomacy, 2. Offensive (or whichever military idea suits your playstyle), 3. Economics.

Hope this helps my fellow Netherlands fans!
 
Two questions:

Step 4. Vassals prep. Normandy is going to consist of Normandy, Caux, Picardie and Calais. Barrois should get Barrois, Rethel, and your core Burgundian provinces Bourgogne, Nevers, etc. Unfortunately, since Franche-Comte is imperial territory, Barrois will not purchase it from you so this is the 1 province you will lose to France. Also note, you can't sell everything to Barrois in 1 batch as you will have to give it some time to core before selling it the rest of your Burgundian lands - I made this error in my playthrough.

1) Is it possible to sell Bourgogne to Bar without moving your capital first?
2) Why not remove Franche-Comte from the Empire? It's as easy as clicking a button on the province screen. (Okay, the Emperor will hate your guts, but he probably does already at this point).
 
You lose way too much diplo relations and income that way. Instead of Normandy (which might not happen with England) and Bar, go for Lorraine. They are already imperial and you can vassalize them in the war VS Provence. Take Bar and Franche-Comte out of the empire and sell all adjacent territory to Lorraine. War france and make them release Champagne, which you can sell Picardie and Calais to.


If you'd like to go a step further, culture convert Holland to Burgundian. Once you form the Netherlands and reincorporate your vassals, you can switch back to Burgundian culture. After that, you can go ahead and form France while keeping Dutch Ideas. Remember to add Ile-De-France to the empire before becoming France though.

You will then be a Burgundian France with Dutch Ideas INSIDE the Empire. Big Blue Blob to the next level.

For ideas, I'd go Naval then Exploration. With Dutch +ship forcelimit and Naval, you can Confirm Thalassocracy for the +1 merchant and bonuses early on.


If France is EXTREMELY weak in your game, do note that completely annexing france doesnt trigger any territory losses upon the decision.

Oh, and I tried culture converting Ile-De-France to Dutch and then attempting to switch back to Dutch afterwards (No culture malus on French cultures and Germanic accepted) but it wouldn't let me. Cultural unions can't do the culture switch decision.
 
Last edited:
Two questions:



1) Is it possible to sell Bourgogne to Bar without moving your capital first?
2) Why not remove Franche-Comte from the Empire? It's as easy as clicking a button on the province screen. (Okay, the Emperor will hate your guts, but he probably does already at this point).

1. Good catch, I moved my capital to prior to this
2. This is a good point as well, and I'm a noob!

As to vassalizing France, I'm definitely a novice in this game and went for a more minimal set of territorial acquisitions. You could definitely go for European domination as Burgundy has a very strong start.
 
You lose way too much diplo relations and income that way. Instead of Normandy (which might not happen with England) and Bar, go for Lorraine. They are already imperial and you can vassalize them in the war VS Provence. Take Bar and Franche-Comte out of the empire and sell all adjacent territory to Lorraine. War france and make them release Champagne, which you can sell Picardie and Calais to.


If you'd like to go a step further, culture convert Holland to Burgundian. Once you form the Netherlands and reincorporate your vassals, you can switch back to Burgundian culture. After that, you can go ahead and form France while keeping Dutch Ideas. Remember to add Ile-De-France to the empire before becoming France though.

You will then be a Burgundian France with Dutch Ideas INSIDE the Empire. Big Blue Blob to the next level.

For ideas, I'd go Naval then Exploration. With Dutch +ship forcelimit and Naval, you can Confirm Thalassocracy for the +1 merchant and bonuses early on.


If France is EXTREMELY weak in your game, do note that completely annexing france doesnt trigger any territory losses upon the decision.

Oh, and I tried culture converting Ile-De-France to Dutch and then attempting to switch back to Dutch afterwards (No culture malus on French cultures and Germanic accepted) but it wouldn't let me. Cultural unions can't do the culture switch decision.

TY for the advice sir! I think this sounds like a much more optimal way to go about this idea. I will give this a shot in another play through after I finish my current one. IDK if I'll go for fully conquering the BBB, but that is just personal taste, not strategy.
 
Isn't it possible to, as Burgundy, move your capital to the Low Countries, culture convert to a Low Countries culture and form the Netherlands with the normal decision, not the Burgundian one?