I thought rebels in EU3 are annoying, rebels in CK2 are even more annoying, but...

Oh Victoria 1.0 .... great memories...

The irony of the CSA being run by the Populists...

is that Mexican Ohio?

which patch of ahd are you running?

Foxicus said:

is that Mexican Ohio?

Click to expand...

Yes, in addition to Mexican Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, etc.

I maintain that rebels have been broken ever since the original game came out. I'm actually shocked you are seeing so many Pan-nationalists and not A-Ls. I personally think that the CSA and USA should not be subject to the cultural union tag rules in general, much like the UK and USA not being subject to the same rules. For a democratic people to peacefully want to re-form a union that it so vociferously left so quickly is ridiculous. This business of suddenly so many CSA citizens wanting to re-form the union? The ACW is supposed to be modelling a large rise in CON such that the voting populace thinks that the USA is massively against their interests. For this to so radically shift? I mean, come on... Historically, if the CSA were to actually win, do you think they would have realistically reconciled their differences?? Had the UK intervened... or any other power there would have been a huge geopolitical incentive to maintain the status quo and prevent the USA from re-forming. I think cultural union tags need to be severely scaled back or be subject to more stringent requirements.

Nationalists should be scaled back within the unions too because in general the only reason why cultural unions were not unified is due to the monarch's selfish interests in maintaining his own fief. Why do you think the Frankfurt Parliament was such a watershed moment? Finally the German people were able to change the conservative order and request a unified nation state. This age is characterized by peoples wanting to unite in the face of conservative and reactionary forces, sometimes foreign, sometimes domestic. Likewise, in the odd event that reactionaries (nationalist) are able to set themselves free it should be EXTREMELY difficult to pull them back in. Cultural union should in general be viewed as "permanent" and undoing it as treason against the will of the people and require extreme measures to undertake. Similarly, if circumstances, albeit extreme, allowed Saxony to leave the NGF/Germany, then nothing sort of war should be able to put them back in the united state. What factors would cause them to leave? Either a massive feeling of discontent among the voters or foreign intervention. Either way, either of those two elements should be very difficult to reverse.

Some nations shouldn't be in a cultural union though just because they were personal unions of different cultural groups and had recently had legislation to solidify the nation state. I'm looking at you, UK... Scotland shouldn't be in cultural union with England. Scottish nationalism has been around for some time and even today we're witnessing a looming referendum on the maintenance of the UK. The Scots and English were also not culturally as similar as the wider Germans or Italians. The Anglo-Saxons and then the Normans thereafter of England had been viewed by Celtic peoples as invaders for many centuries. If by some way, Scotland was to be freed, I find it highly unlikely they'd so quickly run back into the arms of the English.

It seems there needs to be a higher threshold for all this nationalism nonsense. Right now, it seems like a giant mess to me. I've always wanted to tinker with the movements and rebels, but from what I've seen many of these elements are not exposed for modding.

heliostellar said:

Some nations shouldn't be in a cultural union though just because they were personal unions of different cultural groups and had recently had legislation to solidify the nation state. I'm looking at you, UK... Scotland shouldn't be in cultural union with England. Scottish nationalism has been around for some time and even today we're witnessing a looming referendum on the maintenance of the UK. The Scots and English were also not culturally as similar as the wider Germans or Italians. The Anglo-Saxons and then the Normans thereafter of England had been viewed by Celtic peoples as invaders for many centuries. If by some way, Scotland was to be freed, I find it highly unlikely they'd so quickly run back into the arms of the English.

Click to expand...

There are so many things wrong with this that it astonishes and saddens me, it does not however surprise me.

The CSA will always get wrecked by reform desire for slavery abolition.

Niall101x said:

There are so many things wrong with this that it astonishes and saddens me, it does not however surprise me.

Click to expand...

I don't have strong feelings either way about Scottish nationhood being a 4th generation American, but in any conceivable scenario I can come up with where Scotland becomes independent I can only see a military solution to re-unification.

The Arch Mede said:

The CSA will always get wrecked by reform desire for slavery abolition.

Click to expand...

Which is strange since it's the founding principle of that nation. I almost think that there should be more varieties of national ideas. For example, USA would have Capitalistic Liberty where they either get reduced costs for RRs or something. European capital historically poured into America to help build the rail system. CSA should have something like Apartheid Liberty where the get a severe malus on slavery abolition desire. South Africa should have something similar.

I think national ideas could have a lot more flavor and even possibly change. For instance, Germany's is Order, but don't you think a Crown from the Gutter unification should change it to Equality?

heliostellar said:

I think national ideas could have a lot more flavor and even possibly change. For instance, Germany's is Order, but don't you think a Crown from the Gutter unification should change it to Equality?

Click to expand...

With PDM they can be changed, so it's not a far leap to make them change with some other event.
Nice flavor indeed to make them changeable.

Niall101x said:

There are so many things wrong with this that it astonishes and saddens me, it does not however surprise me.

Click to expand...

heliostellar said:

I don't have strong feelings either way about Scottish nationhood being a 4th generation American, but in any conceivable scenario I can come up with where Scotland becomes independent I can only see a military solution to re-unification.

Click to expand...

I cannot speak for Niall, but i am too saddened, though not astonished, by your opinion (?).
For Germany and Italia these people fought among each other among 'tribal' lines much longer than the Scottish/British.
You could say the last try to break away, seriously break away, from Germany for a State of it was in the Weimar time, or maybe even post-WWII. Same goes for Italy. Sicily is the most glaring example but generally you can find a strong opinion in North Italy that anything south of Rome is basically Africa.
I wont even go into the 'Bavaria hates the rest of Germany', the similarities between Austrians(!) and Germans, and all the other facts that cripple your argument.
While you might have a point in realtion to the Scottish (put see, i do not know, so i will not judge whether you do or not) you do not have a clue about either Germany or Italy and that cripples your argument.

The CSA will always get wrecked by reform desire for slavery abolition.

Click to expand...

Makes sense.
Economically slavery will become less and desirable since 'free' slaves allow you to only hire and pay what you need with them drastically better motivated, while slaves you always have to feed (even the most zealous slavery supporter would look with disgust on a slaveowner leaving his slaves to starve... it is an agririan thing of pride in cattle) and they will use any and all excuse NOT to work, which forces you to hire overseer (who you have to pay) but who can only see so much and do so much to motivate your slaves.
In the end free slaves motivating and overseeing themselves while you do not even have to care for their housing or food except for the low, low pay you gonna give them and which they have little way of claiming legally (it is funny that the term 'white slavery' was never brought into conjunction with the industrial revolution).

What the heck is the orange in the electoral pie? I've never seen that before...

Klausewitz said:

I cannot speak for Niall, but i am too saddened, though not astonished, by your opinion (?).
For Germany and Italia these people fought among each other among 'tribal' lines much longer than the Scottish/British.
You could say the last try to break away, seriously break away, from Germany for a State of it was in the Weimar time, or maybe even post-WWII. Same goes for Italy. Sicily is the most glaring example but generally you can find a strong opinion in North Italy that anything south of Rome is basically Africa.
I wont even go into the 'Bavaria hates the rest of Germany', the similarities between Austrians(!) and Germans, and all the other facts that cripple your argument.
While you might have a point in realtion to the Scottish (put see, i do not know, so i will not judge whether you do or not) you do not have a clue about either Germany or Italy and that cripples your argument.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what's so saddening about this. The Scots and English didn't have a shared cultural heritage or language. Of course there are divisions within cultural groups, hence North/South German and North/South Italian. Have you ever heard of a modern British language? No, because it doesn't exist. There used to be one, but it was never spoken by the Anglo Saxons or the Normans. Scotland has no more reason to be in a union tag with England than Ireland does. I'm not really stating an opinion about English people, I am part English! I am simply making a factual statement that the nature of the union of the UK is qualitatively different than Germany or Italy. Could you imagine Irish, Scottish, and English peoples (if they hadn't historically been governed by the same monarch) forming a Frankfurt-like Parliament to demand union? No, because there would be no reason to do that. Prior to the union of England and Scotland there was significant animosity between the two peoples. There union is a hold over of dynastic ties, not cultural ones.

calvinhobbeslik said:

What the heck is the orange in the electoral pie? I've never seen that before...

Click to expand...

Social democrats. Or liberal democrats, ca't remember.

It was not forced on them. the Scottish monarch inherited England! not the other way around! really they merged because the Stuart dynasty took over england.