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JHopkins19

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Jan 12, 2005
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I'm hoping this is an easy answer, although I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong...I'm around the year 1505 as England and just took a look around and am getting absolutely killed in Land and Naval tech by surrounding countries. France, Spain, Aragon, Burgundy, even Switzerland are around 15 and 12 respectively and I'm at 11 and 10.

Hoping someone can give me some primers on the best way to tech up because it seems like I messed up somewhere and am going to need to restart? (not a huge deal as I love the game, but I need to fix this)

Thanks for any help!
 
I'm hoping this is an easy answer, although I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong...I'm around the year 1505 as England and just took a look around and am getting absolutely killed in Land and Naval tech by surrounding countries. France, Spain, Aragon, Burgundy, even Switzerland are around 15 and 12 respectively and I'm at 11 and 10.

Hoping someone can give me some primers on the best way to tech up because it seems like I messed up somewhere and am going to need to restart? (not a huge deal as I love the game, but I need to fix this)

Thanks for any help!
Hard to say without knowing your specific situation but usually technological retardation is brought by lack of proper trade income and puting too much of the monthly income into treasury directly.

Other factors might be that you have bad slider settings (high narrowmindedness or low free subjects), no tech-improving advisors, worse kings and last (but not least) you might have squandered some research money by researching ahead of the historical date.

Maciek
 
I'm hoping this is an easy answer, although I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong...I'm around the year 1505 as England and just took a look around and am getting absolutely killed in Land and Naval tech by surrounding countries. France, Spain, Aragon, Burgundy, even Switzerland are around 15 and 12 respectively and I'm at 11 and 10.

Hoping someone can give me some primers on the best way to tech up because it seems like I messed up somewhere and am going to need to restart? (not a huge deal as I love the game, but I need to fix this)

Thanks for any help!

11 and 10 isn't that bad for 1505, I suppose you invest a lot into production/government.
 
11 and 10 isn't that bad for 1505, I suppose you invest a lot into production/government.

Thanks for the help. Isn't it bad though that a lot of the surrounding countries seem to be lapping me? It seems like they are so far ahead I'll never catch up which will hurt on the battlefield...

Currently...

Govt - 13
Prod - 12
Trade - 11
Naval - 10
Land - 11

Any suggestions?
 
Hard to say without knowing your specific situation but usually technological retardation is brought by lack of proper trade income and puting too much of the monthly income into treasury directly.

Other factors might be that you have bad slider settings (high narrowmindedness or low free subjects), no tech-improving advisors, worse kings and last (but not least) you might have squandered some research money by researching ahead of the historical date.

Maciek

Fair Enough. I was just reading the FAQ pinned at the top. My first mission was to vassalize Scotland which I just completed. According to the FAQ that may be a huge drain on teching?
 
Fair Enough. I was just reading the FAQ pinned at the top. My first mission was to vassalize Scotland which I just completed. According to the FAQ that may be a huge drain on teching?

Those are rather poor provinces with some of them having wrong culture (and, possibly, religion - it's 1505 after all). This might influence your tech costs more than it influences your income (in effect worsening your tech progress) but not by so much that you fall behind Aragon. Swiss will beat you easily, though, they are a perfect teching nation.

EDIT: you vassalized Scotland, not annexed it? No this has no impact on your tech.

Maciek
 
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Also, all tech levels do not cost the same. I think that the levels around 15:ish are pretty cheap, so you could just fly through a few eventualy.

This is true, forgot about that part. Levels 11-15 (or so) are cheap but only for some of the techs (gov't, land and naval probably qualify here, trade and production - I don't think so).

Maciek
 
Unless you own, not just vassalize, the provinces they shouldn't hurt you. In fact the 'free' income should help you.

Without knowing what you're doing with the sliders, we can only make edumacated guesses as to what is going on. So, a few quick questions to help you assess:

In the budget tab, where the tech sliders are...
-Is the lowest tab run all the way left as much as you can...?
-Are you teching one item at a time or 'spreading' the wealth' to all techs at once...?
-Are you focusing on techs as you need them, or simply waiting for them...?

On the sliders tab... you should have had a number of moves by now.
-Did you go centralized to remove the penalties of decentralization...?
-Did you move sliders that penalized research...?

Have you been taking income from your budget and pocketing it...? If you have, then money that goes to tech isn't going there. As a general rule of thumb, hover over the cash on hand displayed at the top of the screen, where stability and prestige are displayed. A pop up will say you get 'x' ducats a month and 'x' ducats at the end of the year for a total of 'x' ducats. Now go into the budget tab and set the lowest slider as far left as you can so that when you close it (you must close it for any changes to take effect) and go back to the cash on hand, the pop up shows you are breaking even. If you are making 12 ducats a year, you can run at (-1) ducats a month in the budget, 72d a year and you can run (-6d) a month, follow...?

As you make more ducats, you can run say (-5) instead of (-6) and slowly build up a little nest egg. This is called 'minting', taking money out of research and putting it into your pocket. Excessive minting leads to 'inflation'. (not real world inflation, but the effects are similar) Inflation makes everything costs more, including techs.

Research one thing at a time. Early game focus is GOVT for National Ideas (NIs), PROD until level 9, for workshops, and LAND, which is obvious. TRADE is next and then NAVAL. After 9, TRADE begins to take over for PROD to get monopolies. GOVT is always a priority. The idea is you actually get to use the tech you researched to help you get other techs. It's been proven researching one at a time is faster than across the board. As you get proficient at it, you'll learn to play the sliders to maximize months and pull money out of a tech that's completing and start the next one.

Slider moves to get land/naval/trade bonuses are nice, but if you're paying through the nose in tech you're not doing yourself many favors. In the end they end up just subsidizing your tech deficiency.

Did you build a COT in your best coastal province on the mainland yet...? Very good tax bonuses, and a guaranteed income trade wise. Always a nice boost.

Anything eating your income...? Alot of troops...? Alot of ships...? Are you holding an excessive amount of men to defend because you think you can't get there in time...? Do you have an overly large Army or Navy...? Do you lower maintenance when at peace...? I personally don't, instead carrying a leaner military in general, but with the right NIs you can run 1.5 or even 1.0 on the maint slider and have more than enough to handle rebels.

Are you actively trading...? Do you have NIs that boost that...? Do you have any other financial NIs like National Bank...?

Do you keep STAB at +3 as much as possible...?

Do you have decent advisors...?

The world of EUIII finance can be a complicated place... The above is just basic stuff, a few simple ground rules that will help you survive until you get the feel of all the ins and outs of the economic system.

With more information, we can help pinpoint any specific problems unique to your game and play style.

T
 
Unless you own, not just vassalize, the provinces they shouldn't hurt you. In fact the 'free' income should help you.

Without knowing what you're doing with the sliders, we can only make edumacated guesses as to what is going on. So, a few quick questions to help you assess:

In the budget tab, where the tech sliders are...
-Is the lowest tab run all the way left as much as you can...?
-Are you teching one item at a time or 'spreading' the wealth' to all techs at once...?
-Are you focusing on techs as you need them, or simply waiting for them...?

On the sliders tab... you should have had a number of moves by now.
-Did you go centralized to remove the penalties of decentralization...?
-Did you move sliders that penalized research...?

Have you been taking income from your budget and pocketing it...? If you have, then money that goes to tech isn't going there. As a general rule of thumb, hover over the cash on hand displayed at the top of the screen, where stability and prestige are displayed. A pop up will say you get 'x' ducats a month and 'x' ducats at the end of the year for a total of 'x' ducats. Now go into the budget tab and set the lowest slider as far left as you can so that when you close it (you must close it for any changes to take effect) and go back to the cash on hand, the pop up shows you are breaking even. If you are making 12 ducats a year, you can run at (-1) ducats a month in the budget, 72d a year and you can run (-6d) a month, follow...?

As you make more ducats, you can run say (-5) instead of (-6) and slowly build up a little nest egg. This is called 'minting', taking money out of research and putting it into your pocket. Excessive minting leads to 'inflation'. (not real world inflation, but the effects are similar) Inflation makes everything costs more, including techs.

Research one thing at a time. Early game focus is GOVT for National Ideas (NIs), PROD until level 9, for workshops, and LAND, which is obvious. TRADE is next and then NAVAL. After 9, TRADE begins to take over for PROD to get monopolies. GOVT is always a priority. The idea is you actually get to use the tech you researched to help you get other techs. It's been proven researching one at a time is faster than across the board. As you get proficient at it, you'll learn to play the sliders to maximize months and pull money out of a tech that's completing and start the next one.

Slider moves to get land/naval/trade bonuses are nice, but if you're paying through the nose in tech you're not doing yourself many favors. In the end they end up just subsidizing your tech deficiency.

Did you build a COT in your best coastal province on the mainland yet...? Very good tax bonuses, and a guaranteed income trade wise. Always a nice boost.

Anything eating your income...? Alot of troops...? Alot of ships...? Are you holding an excessive amount of men to defend because you think you can't get there in time...? Do you have an overly large Army or Navy...? Do you lower maintenance when at peace...? I personally don't, instead carrying a leaner military in general, but with the right NIs you can run 1.5 or even 1.0 on the maint slider and have more than enough to handle rebels.

Are you actively trading...? Do you have NIs that boost that...? Do you have any other financial NIs like National Bank...?

Do you keep STAB at +3 as much as possible...?

Do you have decent advisors...?

The world of EUIII finance can be a complicated place... The above is just basic stuff, a few simple ground rules that will help you survive until you get the feel of all the ins and outs of the economic system.

With more information, we can help pinpoint any specific problems unique to your game and play style.

T

Yes I'm trying not to mint at all unless I have an inflation reducer and then I am minting for the extra ducats.

Kind of doing both regarding teching. Spreading the wealth at a low level to 4 while increasing a lot in 1 and then switching once I get to a new level. Should I do something different?

I guess I was more focused on govt techs at first to get extra idea slots...

My first couple slider moved was to centralize and innovate so that should be helping right?

Ahhh, i definitely was pocketing money "for a rainy day" I guess. But that makes sense.

Wow this is a lot of info. Thanks very much for your help. I'm going to print it out and compare it to what I'm doing in game. The answers above were off the top of my head.
 
Yes I'm trying not to mint at all unless I have an inflation reducer and then I am minting for the extra ducats.

National Bank NI will give you (-0.10) inflation, allowing a little flexibility in the absence of a MoM. Any good MoM should be taken (and kept until death) whenever minting is an issue. Only mint when you need to, never just because you can. Unless you have a specific purpose for the cash, let it go to tech where it can do you good.

Kind of doing both regarding teching. Spreading the wealth at a low level to 4 while increasing a lot in 1 and then switching once I get to a new level. Should I do something different?
Yes. Tech one level and one tech at a time. As it nears completion, you can pull funds out of it and not change the complete date and put them into the next tech. This snowballs the tech money so it's always driving forwards. When you spread the money out, it takes longer to get any tech, and you lose the ability to make use of it. This is especially true of GOV, PRO and TRA.

I guess I was more focused on govt techs at first to get extra idea slots...

I do this. NIs are a worthwhile goal to have. I will go for GOV 11 for example instead of other things to get the 3rd NI before anyone else, especially in a situation where I can choose a good boost NI that will really give me an edge.

My first couple slider moved was to centralize and innovate so that should be helping right?

Yes. I am guessing you stopped at the red bar on the central slider...? Don't. It's +1 RR. If you have +3 STAB you get a (-3) RR for a net of (-2) RR. I will run (-2) central and take the RR every time... The only time it has potential hurt effects is right after taking a province where Nationalism is high, or when you have a sudden drop to (-2) STAB... Even then it's short term problems for long term financial help.

Ahhh, i definitely was pocketing money "for a rainy day" I guess. But that makes sense.

And then you conveniently find ways to spend it. And then it's lost for good. And all you have left is tasteless gum and the empty wrapper... :D

Rule number one, above all else: Only Mint When You Need Something.

If you're trying to build workshops, mint. If you need that emergency army, mint. If you just need cash hanging around, start a war, take a small country and take gold in the peace deal. All the money you'll ever need just hanging around for that rainy day. ;)

Wow this is a lot of info. Thanks very much for your help. I'm going to print it out and compare it to what I'm doing in game. The answers above were off the top of my head.

Glad to help. I'd say based on your responses you have a really good grasp of what's happening. You should only need to make a few minor tweaks to see some real difference.

T
 
Unless you own, not just vassalize, the provinces they shouldn't hurt you. In fact the 'free' income should help you....T
Sorry, but my English has betrayed me here, the second “not” confuses me. Do you mean that if you own (annexed) a province that has a different culture of religion so it has a negative impact on your tech research speed? Or is it the case of vassalization?
 
Sorry, but my English has betrayed me here, the second “not” confuses me. Do you mean that if you own (annexed) a province that has a different culture of religion so it has a negative impact on your tech research speed? Or is it the case of vassalization?

If you own a province, it counts towards raising your tech costs.

Different culture in that province carries a penalty to province income.

Different religion also causes a penalty to province income.

Culture and religion will not impact tech cost directly, but indirectly because you get the same penalty to the cost of tech, but less money from the province to overcome it.

Vassals pay you half of their income, and do not count to raising your tech cost as you don't actually 'own' them.

T
 
Only mint when you need to, never just because you can. Unless you have a specific purpose for the cash, let it go to tech where it can do you good.
...
Rule number one, above all else: Only Mint When You Need Something.

This was going to be my response, but antracer beat me to it. This is one of the two great newbie mistakes, minting because they don't want their treasury to 'waste away' 'for no reason'. It slowly disappears for a good reason; it's paying your monthly bills. Minting without inflation is not the same as minting without cost. There is still the opportunity cost of that income not going to research. The other great newbie mistake is wanting instant unlimited expansion.

Oh, and antracer is only partially right about vassals: they give half their monthly tax income.

-Pat
 
Oh, and antracer is only partially right about vassals: they give half their monthly tax income.

-Pat

Actually it's an 'old-bie' mistake... I always assume 'income' to be monthly and EOY taxes are always just that in my mind, End of Year taxes, so as not to confuse myself when calculating things in the heat of the game.

And Mr. pjcrowe is correct, you don't get any of those... ;)

Happy Thanksgiving to all in the states. Happy Thursday to everyone else...! :cool:

T