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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #110 - Building Ownership & Foreign Investment

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary!

After last week’s look at Power Blocs, we are going to take a look at another major set of changes that are going to arrive with Sphere of Influence and the free 1.7 update.

Namely, a revision of the Building Ownership system and what it allows us to do: Foreign Investment, a much requested feature which makes its debut in 1.7.

You will see that the changes we are making impact your visibility of ownership and the affected Pops throughout the game.

To understand all the mechanics we will be looking at an example country in the heart of Europe.

Ownership types​

It’s 1836. In Bavaria, a proud member of the Zollverein Power Bloc, all buildings are owned by the state or the workers themselves.

Capitalists, Aristocrats, and Clergymen no longer work in these buildings, and most of the Shopkeepers no longer work in production buildings directly. In addition, the Ownership Production Methods have been removed. Instead, ownership works on a per level basis, allowing a mixed ownership structure in the same building.

A popular Logging Camp it seems. Workers, a Financial District and a Manor House own a part.
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In worker-owned buildings employees work for themselves basically. So any dividends they may accumulate, they split amongst themselves. This is the default at game start for many countries (not all) and is a state which you can more or less return to at a later stage of the game with the enactment of Cooperative Ownership, which will expropriate your privately owned buildings over time.

One major exception from the ownership situation at game start are subsistence farms which are owned by a new building we are introducing: Manor Houses.

Now they lounge around in luxury, instead of slumming it with the common folks in less refined taste buildings, we wouldn't want their shoes to be dirtied on a subsistence farm!
Manor Houses are able to own levels of other buildings, in our case at game start all the levels of Subsistence Farms in their own states. They pay their wages and dividends by collecting dividends from the buildings they own and distributing them among their employees.
What type and how many employees they have is determined by a limited set of PMs.

Clergymen or Aristocrats? You can’t get rid of both of them!
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So you can see there are still jobs for Clergymen. What about the Shopkeepers and Capitalists?
Well, they work in the new Financial District buildings, which behave pretty much like the Manor Houses. They too have different employment PMs, can own levels of other buildings and pay their employees by collecting dividends from owned building levels.

Both new buildings expand automatically, depending on how many levels they own. For example if a new level of a privately owned factory is created, a corresponding new level of a Financial District is also generated.

All building levels that you construct are country-owned. Under certain laws, this status can change soon after they are finished constructing. Country-owned buildings come with reduced Economy of Scale bonuses and a bureaucracy cost for each level you own. But in return they can provide additional income based on the building’s dividends which partially get transferred to your treasury.

Not all buildings can be of any ownership type of course, for example barracks or government administrations will always be country-owned.

Summing up, there are now three types of ownership for any building level:
  • Worker owned
  • Privately owned (Financial Districts and Manor Houses)
  • Country owned

If all buildings in Bavaria are owned by the workers or the country itself, how do the first Financial Districts appear, you may wonder!

The main way to get that to happen is the next point on our agenda.

Privatization​

Enter Privatization, whereby you allow country-owned buildings to be sold to Pops.

If you are short on cash, Privatization might help you
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This makes it possible for your Pops to acquire them. Depending on the type of building you are privatizing, they usually get bought either by Aristocrats or Capitalists, using the investment pool’s funds.
If you don’t have any capitalists in your country yet, other Pops may step up though, using the investment pool’s funds to buy a building you put up for sale and become Capitalists in the process, which in turn leads to the first Financial District appearing.

The money will be transferred from the investment pool to your country’s treasury once that happens. The cost of buying a level is determined by its construction cost and is modified by most of the Economic System laws. These laws also affect the efficiency of these transactions, meaning how much money is lost as overhead and how much is being reinvested into the investment pool or the treasury.
One particularly interesting law is Laissez-Faire which upon enactment forces all your country-owned buildings to be put up for sale and will automatically do so for every new building level you construct. Similarly, enactment of other laws like Cooperative Ownership and Command Economy doesn’t immediately change the ownership of all buildings, but rather can start a process that can convert your economy over time.

Insert witty joke about the free market here
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Now let’s take a look at how the different ownership model affects investments from your Pops.

Investment​

The existing logic for how the private investment pool works remains similar to before. So, different Pop types still have different priorities and they will look at factors like estimated productivity, available workforce etc.
When a building is about to be constructed by private investment, we randomly determine who is building it, favoring already existing Financial Districts and Manor Houses over creating new ones.

In a worker-owned economy, the private investment pool will continue to function, but they will only expand their own buildings, not create new ones.

An important fact with this system is that investments do not need to be local. A Financial District or Manor House can invest in any of your country’s states, including your colonies overseas.
This system will create a flow of money from the colonies to your homelands, a stronger centralization of wealth and power and it will end the status of colonies’ Pops making more money than your Pops at home.

Of course the non-local investments also come with some challenges with regards to other countries.

It looks like Prussia has heard about that option and has started investing in your country!

“First they took our chairs, then the tables we used to eat at. What’s next? Our beds?!”
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Foreign Investment​

There are a few ways to acquire Foreign Investment Rights.

First of all, overlords can always invest in their subjects. This is part of the free 1.7 update and will allow you to do Foreign Investment where it matters the most, even if you do not own Sphere of Influence.

Then there are three diplomatic pacts which you can use if you have bought the expansion:
  1. Mutual Investment Rights which allows both countries to invest in each other
  2. One-directional Investment Rights in either direction, so you either demand to be allowed to invest in their country or offer another country to invest in yours

The [redacted] has been [redacted]. We shall see its effects on the 11. of April.
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There is also a Power Bloc Principle group that deals with Foreign Investment which on Tier 3 has the consequence of being able to invest in any member country.

No matter how you got the Investment Rights, you and also your Pops will be able to invest in the target country. Private investment does consider foreign states as potential targets for their expansions, allowing them to build profitable buildings more easily.

As nice as it is that Prussia has invested in new buildings in Bavaria, I don’t think we can let them get away with diverting the profits to Berlin instead of our own population!

Nationalization​

Nationalization allows you to take control of foreign assets in your country. You cannot nationalize other countries’ assets as long as they possess Foreign Investment rights in your country.

Once that is no longer the case, e.g. if Bavaria left the Zollverein Power Bloc, you can peacefully nationalize their building levels in your country. For that you need to pay a sum of money from your treasury. Similarly to Privatization, the sum is determined by the construction cost + modifiers from laws.

You will also be able to nationalize your own Pops’ building levels, both worker-owned and privately owned, if you’d like to take ownership. Nationalization is not seen positively by the affected Pops of course and will radicalize them.

“We should compensate them to reduce the quarrels.”
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But what if the Bavarian coffers are empty yet you still want to take over that juicy productive Furniture Manufacturies that is owned by Prussia?

Well, there is always an alternative.

“Pay them? I don’t think so!”
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You can demand nationalization of a country’s assets in your country. If they accept, their building levels’ ownership changes to your country. If they don’t, you can try and enforce it as a wargoal. If you are successful, you will also remove their Foreign Investment Rights for your country in addition to taking control of their buildings in your country.

Building Registry​

To visualize all these new mechanics, we are introducing the Building Registry, which allows you a customizable look at your country’s situation.

All the building data one could wish for
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This is a major new UI, that similar to the Census Data window, comes with a lot of functionality to filter the available data. Only show buildings outside your country? Sure. See all buildings that are owned by Pops and which are currently not hiring but not fully employed? No problem.

Lots of filter groups to browse through
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We hope you find this as useful as we do. You can access it via the button on the bottom of the Buildings panel.

Really recommend pressing that button
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Implications for the Directly Controlled Investment Pool Game Rule​

As you can imagine, this new system of ownership, geographic wealth extraction, and privatization/nationalization has far-reaching implications on the economic foundations of Victoria 3. It enables a lot of interesting dynamics we haven't been able to model until this time and adds a whole new dimension to your economic laws.

It also comes with the consequence of making the Directly Controlled Investment Pool game rule that we introduced with 1.2 (as a legacy alternative to the new Autonomous Investment system) impossible to maintain. In 1.6 and prior, if this game rule was turned on, the player would be directing all construction efforts. As long as there was money in the investment pool and the construction queue was building a privately-owned building, the cost of construction goods would be coming out of the investment pool first before being carried by the state budget. With the new rules for building ownership, investment rights, and so on in 1.7 this no longer makes sense - there's now a very clear distinction between a building project initiated by a private investor and the state, a potential source of conflict innate to both foreign ownership and the privatization/nationalization mechanics, and even differences between owners in different regions that cannot be represented if all construction projects were player-initiated.

Because of this it no longer makes sense for players to be in charge of both public and private investments simultaneously, and as such the Directly Controlled Investment Pool rule has had to be removed for 1.7 and beyond. While we can't support non-default game rules to the same degree as the standard options, removing a game rule completely is not something we'd ever do without good cause. We know that a smaller fraction of you favored this setting so we want to be clear with why its removal was a necessity to move forward with these improvements to ownership and foreign expansion.

Outlook​

I would like to end today’s Dev Diary by providing a short outlook for what these changes also enable us to do in the future.

The main thing here is affecting Companies.

The way we have reworked ownership allows us to create Company headquarter buildings which can then own specific building levels of industries they care about, determining its profitability from and providing their throughput bonuses only to these. While we cannot provide a concrete timeline for that change at this point, it is something we would like to tackle for one of our next free updates.

That’s it for today. Check back next week when Mikael is going to walk you through what changes 1.7 and Sphere of Influence brings to relations and interactions between Overlords and Subjects, including how these foreign investment mechanics relate to your grip over your extended empire.

Overview for all upcoming Dev Diaries:
Date Topic
4th AprilSubject Interactions
11th AprilLobbies and More on Power Blocs
18th AprilThe Great Game
25th AprilThe Art of Sphere of Influence
2nd MayChangelog 1.7
 
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1. Currently there's no refusal for peaceful nationalization, except having investment rights
2. Yes, you can demand it as a separate war goal
I'd like to ask you a question. As I understand it, there are two ways of getting rid of foreign assets in our country:
Let's say I'm Dai Nam and France has invested massively in my rubber, and i want to gain back control of these plantations.
- peaceful: leave the zone of interest/break the investment pact (is it a simple click? does France have to agree?) and pay the compensation.
- Hard: you refuse to pay compensation (should you also no longer have an investment agreement?) and this is a diplomatic coup. I could also get bribed with it by great britain or Prussia in their own war against France.

But as much as the nationalisation without compensation of private assets in our country provokes a generation of radicals, apart from a diplomatic effect, the nationalisation of international assets doesn't do much.
Once I've won my war against France (with the direct participation of other great powers doing the hard work), that's it, nothing else?
Would, for example, the nationalisation (and therefore the loss) of all these French industrial assets have any effect on the lobbies supported by the ousted capitalists? In other words, will the French lobbies suddenly all push for intervention against me in order to " take revenge "? Or perhaps a journal entry triggered for France, forcing it to put me under protectorate, or risk radicals.
 
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Would a more accurate term for country owned be "state owned" because it is the state who exists as a legal entity and who can own things?
Yeah, possibly.
One thing we wanted to avoid is that people don't get confused with the state that the building is located in. There's no ownership by Normandy, Picardy and Burgundy, only French is what we wanted to make clear. :D
If you want to call it state-owned you're welcome to do so and we will understand.
 
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Ideally, the colonies have a small privately-owned sector I'd say. But then they'd mainly build government owned buildings which do not require a financial district.
Maybe we could expand our laws to define what happens to these buildings in the future.

Auto-sell sounds like a neat idea, yes. Not coming with release, but I'm taking a note.
Ah of course, if they don't have capitalists to invest, they can only build govt buildings which add a colonial company make sense they would do.

I also presume anything built before creating a new subject stays owned by its original owners?
Correct, output stays in the country, profits are sent overseas.

Do you mean you'd want an additional tax specifically for profits made outside your country? Because of course any profits are taxed the usual way your country does taxation if the law applies, e.g. income, no matter where their income is coming from.
So passing dividend taxes will not tax foreign-owned buildings? Since their dividends are being collected abroad.

It could be interesting if they were collected in your country, as owners of your buildings would then have an interest in keeping you from passing such laws.
 
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Is it possible for the government to buy private owned buildings? How will subsidies work, the same as before?
1. Yes, that's nationalization :)
2. Subsidies can be set by the country where a building is located in. So no subsidies from foreign owners in building levels in your country.
 
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Depending on the circumstances, yes it can happen that they prefer investing outside. But I wouldn't say it's the default.
I imagine players keeping buildings public when they are not profitable enough (even subsidizing them) and not privatizing until they are sure they have the demand to keep them profitable.

Are they selling back to the government? The government can make them profitable again and sell them back to investors at a profit?

Also, dividends from abroad are double taxed as they should if there is no international agreement on double taxation?

Pretty awesome everything!
 
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R.I.P Direct Investment option.
Not that it stops anyone from modding private allocation to 10% for all economic systems :D

What happens if I eat state with manors or financial centers? Do they relocate or do they accept, that they are in new country even if discriminated now?
If communist nation eats state with manors/financial centers, then all employed capitalists/aristocrats become unemployed?
Can they relocate?
Generally, aristocrats and capitalists will stay where they are even if there's a new owner. They didn't move before, so why would they move now?
If they own levels in your country, you can of course nationalize them or their assets might get expropriated over time and transformed into worker-owned buildings (laws depending). If they own levels outside your country, nothing really changes for these. Manor houses and financial districts are never country-owned after all. They just spawn if pops of your country own buildings somewhere basically.
 
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This is all interesting but i can see the writing on the wall, as we are not able to directly control investment pool the construction ai will build weird stuff in weird places and it will end in disaster.
 
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Generally, aristocrats and capitalists will stay where they are even if there's a new owner. They didn't move before, so why would they move now?
If they own levels in your country, you can of course nationalize them or their assets might get expropriated over time and transformed into worker-owned buildings (laws depending). If they own levels outside your country, nothing really changes for these. Manor houses and financial districts are never country-owned after all. They just spawn if pops of your country own buildings somewhere basically.
So state can be traded, conquered, etc back and forth, while manors and financial centers don't care that it was Prussian then Austrian then Russian state in quick succession.
 
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Great! This is everything I hoped for and more! Good job, devs! I was critical last week, but I really can't find fault in that design.

edit : Let's nationalize the Suez canal!
 
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Adding my voice to the chorus of people asking for an explanation of how this intersects with technology - if I’m playing a more technologically advanced country, is my foreign investment restricted by the technological development of the country I am investing in?
 
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We know that a smaller fraction of you favored this setting so we want to be clear with why its removal was a necessity to move forward with these improvements to ownership and foreign expansion.

Yep Id only play the game with Direct controlled investments. Now I wont pay it at all /uninstall
 
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I have a few questions:
1. What determines which "ownership building" owns a building when it's built? Does each building have it's own individual investment pool?
2. Is there any way for me to favour one set of owners over others? EG, can I only sell buildings to financial districts in my capital, instead of owners located overseas? Or prevent Aristocrats owning the best buildings?
3. Is there a way for building levels to be transferred between owners other then through privatization/nationalization? EG can my capitalists by lumber camp levels from the lumber camp employees?
4. is there a way for me to "selectively nationalize" building levels? EG I have lumbercamps, with 1 level owned by the workers, 2 by local financial district, and 3 by foreigners. Is there a way to only nationalize the 3 owned by foreigners?
5. Besides generating a wargoal, does nationalisation interact in any other way with diplomacy, eg by generating infamy?
6. Who gets the dividend taxes from foreign owned buildings? The country where the owner is, or the country where the building is located?
1. Briefly mentioned it in the DD: there's a weighted random function in there to determine the owner since they all access the same shared investment pool
2. No concrete decision currently, no. But the investment preferences do apply, so aristocrats are a lot more likely to buy farms and plantations etc.
3. Not at this moment
4. Also not currently possible, except for the wargoal which will nationalize all assets of target country that are located in yours. We have talked about it in the past and will consider adding a better selection in the future.
5. If you enforce the nationalization wargoal, there is an infamy hit, yes
6. Where the owner is
 
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Same for me
I'm sure that someone releases mod, that sets max private allocation to 0% and pop contributions to 0% while adding permanent 10% dividends tax.
IP under direct investment is just weighted tax on owner pops, that goes to separate budget.
 
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Question: It says "You cannot nationalize other countries’ assets as long as they possess Foreign Investment rights in your country." but also that attempting to nationalize and being rejected results in a wargoal that if successful removes foreign investment rights (in addition to nationalizing the buildings).

So which is it? Do you need to remove their rights before you attempt to nationalize or does attempting to nationalize removes their rights?
If they have foreign investment rights, you cannot peacefully nationalize by just clicking a button. If they have those rights, you can still violently nationalize at gunpoint via diplo play.
terrible. What's the point of all this then?
You can't just invest anywhere. Almost everyone you'd have investments in will be in your market in the first place. So the resources still go to your market in most cases (eg you're investing in your subjects.)
 
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As long as you fix the bug with the AI immediately constructing 20 levels of power plants, railways or some other building in a state, resulting in it immediately being unprofitable, I will be happy. Perhaps this can be done by restricting the AI to building only a single level of a building in a state and only starting a new level once the old one is complete?
 
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