• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #110 - Building Ownership & Foreign Investment

16_9.png

Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary!

After last week’s look at Power Blocs, we are going to take a look at another major set of changes that are going to arrive with Sphere of Influence and the free 1.7 update.

Namely, a revision of the Building Ownership system and what it allows us to do: Foreign Investment, a much requested feature which makes its debut in 1.7.

You will see that the changes we are making impact your visibility of ownership and the affected Pops throughout the game.

To understand all the mechanics we will be looking at an example country in the heart of Europe.

Ownership types​

It’s 1836. In Bavaria, a proud member of the Zollverein Power Bloc, all buildings are owned by the state or the workers themselves.

Capitalists, Aristocrats, and Clergymen no longer work in these buildings, and most of the Shopkeepers no longer work in production buildings directly. In addition, the Ownership Production Methods have been removed. Instead, ownership works on a per level basis, allowing a mixed ownership structure in the same building.

A popular Logging Camp it seems. Workers, a Financial District and a Manor House own a part.
DD110_01.png

In worker-owned buildings employees work for themselves basically. So any dividends they may accumulate, they split amongst themselves. This is the default at game start for many countries (not all) and is a state which you can more or less return to at a later stage of the game with the enactment of Cooperative Ownership, which will expropriate your privately owned buildings over time.

One major exception from the ownership situation at game start are subsistence farms which are owned by a new building we are introducing: Manor Houses.

Now they lounge around in luxury, instead of slumming it with the common folks in less refined taste buildings, we wouldn't want their shoes to be dirtied on a subsistence farm!
Manor Houses are able to own levels of other buildings, in our case at game start all the levels of Subsistence Farms in their own states. They pay their wages and dividends by collecting dividends from the buildings they own and distributing them among their employees.
What type and how many employees they have is determined by a limited set of PMs.

Clergymen or Aristocrats? You can’t get rid of both of them!
DD110_02.png

So you can see there are still jobs for Clergymen. What about the Shopkeepers and Capitalists?
Well, they work in the new Financial District buildings, which behave pretty much like the Manor Houses. They too have different employment PMs, can own levels of other buildings and pay their employees by collecting dividends from owned building levels.

Both new buildings expand automatically, depending on how many levels they own. For example if a new level of a privately owned factory is created, a corresponding new level of a Financial District is also generated.

All building levels that you construct are country-owned. Under certain laws, this status can change soon after they are finished constructing. Country-owned buildings come with reduced Economy of Scale bonuses and a bureaucracy cost for each level you own. But in return they can provide additional income based on the building’s dividends which partially get transferred to your treasury.

Not all buildings can be of any ownership type of course, for example barracks or government administrations will always be country-owned.

Summing up, there are now three types of ownership for any building level:
  • Worker owned
  • Privately owned (Financial Districts and Manor Houses)
  • Country owned

If all buildings in Bavaria are owned by the workers or the country itself, how do the first Financial Districts appear, you may wonder!

The main way to get that to happen is the next point on our agenda.

Privatization​

Enter Privatization, whereby you allow country-owned buildings to be sold to Pops.

If you are short on cash, Privatization might help you
DD110_03.png

This makes it possible for your Pops to acquire them. Depending on the type of building you are privatizing, they usually get bought either by Aristocrats or Capitalists, using the investment pool’s funds.
If you don’t have any capitalists in your country yet, other Pops may step up though, using the investment pool’s funds to buy a building you put up for sale and become Capitalists in the process, which in turn leads to the first Financial District appearing.

The money will be transferred from the investment pool to your country’s treasury once that happens. The cost of buying a level is determined by its construction cost and is modified by most of the Economic System laws. These laws also affect the efficiency of these transactions, meaning how much money is lost as overhead and how much is being reinvested into the investment pool or the treasury.
One particularly interesting law is Laissez-Faire which upon enactment forces all your country-owned buildings to be put up for sale and will automatically do so for every new building level you construct. Similarly, enactment of other laws like Cooperative Ownership and Command Economy doesn’t immediately change the ownership of all buildings, but rather can start a process that can convert your economy over time.

Insert witty joke about the free market here
DD110_04.png

Now let’s take a look at how the different ownership model affects investments from your Pops.

Investment​

The existing logic for how the private investment pool works remains similar to before. So, different Pop types still have different priorities and they will look at factors like estimated productivity, available workforce etc.
When a building is about to be constructed by private investment, we randomly determine who is building it, favoring already existing Financial Districts and Manor Houses over creating new ones.

In a worker-owned economy, the private investment pool will continue to function, but they will only expand their own buildings, not create new ones.

An important fact with this system is that investments do not need to be local. A Financial District or Manor House can invest in any of your country’s states, including your colonies overseas.
This system will create a flow of money from the colonies to your homelands, a stronger centralization of wealth and power and it will end the status of colonies’ Pops making more money than your Pops at home.

Of course the non-local investments also come with some challenges with regards to other countries.

It looks like Prussia has heard about that option and has started investing in your country!

“First they took our chairs, then the tables we used to eat at. What’s next? Our beds?!”
DD110_05.png

Foreign Investment​

There are a few ways to acquire Foreign Investment Rights.

First of all, overlords can always invest in their subjects. This is part of the free 1.7 update and will allow you to do Foreign Investment where it matters the most, even if you do not own Sphere of Influence.

Then there are three diplomatic pacts which you can use if you have bought the expansion:
  1. Mutual Investment Rights which allows both countries to invest in each other
  2. One-directional Investment Rights in either direction, so you either demand to be allowed to invest in their country or offer another country to invest in yours

The [redacted] has been [redacted]. We shall see its effects on the 11. of April.
DD110_06.png

There is also a Power Bloc Principle group that deals with Foreign Investment which on Tier 3 has the consequence of being able to invest in any member country.

No matter how you got the Investment Rights, you and also your Pops will be able to invest in the target country. Private investment does consider foreign states as potential targets for their expansions, allowing them to build profitable buildings more easily.

As nice as it is that Prussia has invested in new buildings in Bavaria, I don’t think we can let them get away with diverting the profits to Berlin instead of our own population!

Nationalization​

Nationalization allows you to take control of foreign assets in your country. You cannot nationalize other countries’ assets as long as they possess Foreign Investment rights in your country.

Once that is no longer the case, e.g. if Bavaria left the Zollverein Power Bloc, you can peacefully nationalize their building levels in your country. For that you need to pay a sum of money from your treasury. Similarly to Privatization, the sum is determined by the construction cost + modifiers from laws.

You will also be able to nationalize your own Pops’ building levels, both worker-owned and privately owned, if you’d like to take ownership. Nationalization is not seen positively by the affected Pops of course and will radicalize them.

“We should compensate them to reduce the quarrels.”
DD110_07.png

But what if the Bavarian coffers are empty yet you still want to take over that juicy productive Furniture Manufacturies that is owned by Prussia?

Well, there is always an alternative.

“Pay them? I don’t think so!”
DD110_08.png

You can demand nationalization of a country’s assets in your country. If they accept, their building levels’ ownership changes to your country. If they don’t, you can try and enforce it as a wargoal. If you are successful, you will also remove their Foreign Investment Rights for your country in addition to taking control of their buildings in your country.

Building Registry​

To visualize all these new mechanics, we are introducing the Building Registry, which allows you a customizable look at your country’s situation.

All the building data one could wish for
DD110_09.png

This is a major new UI, that similar to the Census Data window, comes with a lot of functionality to filter the available data. Only show buildings outside your country? Sure. See all buildings that are owned by Pops and which are currently not hiring but not fully employed? No problem.

Lots of filter groups to browse through
DD110_10.png

We hope you find this as useful as we do. You can access it via the button on the bottom of the Buildings panel.

Really recommend pressing that button
DD110_11.png

Implications for the Directly Controlled Investment Pool Game Rule​

As you can imagine, this new system of ownership, geographic wealth extraction, and privatization/nationalization has far-reaching implications on the economic foundations of Victoria 3. It enables a lot of interesting dynamics we haven't been able to model until this time and adds a whole new dimension to your economic laws.

It also comes with the consequence of making the Directly Controlled Investment Pool game rule that we introduced with 1.2 (as a legacy alternative to the new Autonomous Investment system) impossible to maintain. In 1.6 and prior, if this game rule was turned on, the player would be directing all construction efforts. As long as there was money in the investment pool and the construction queue was building a privately-owned building, the cost of construction goods would be coming out of the investment pool first before being carried by the state budget. With the new rules for building ownership, investment rights, and so on in 1.7 this no longer makes sense - there's now a very clear distinction between a building project initiated by a private investor and the state, a potential source of conflict innate to both foreign ownership and the privatization/nationalization mechanics, and even differences between owners in different regions that cannot be represented if all construction projects were player-initiated.

Because of this it no longer makes sense for players to be in charge of both public and private investments simultaneously, and as such the Directly Controlled Investment Pool rule has had to be removed for 1.7 and beyond. While we can't support non-default game rules to the same degree as the standard options, removing a game rule completely is not something we'd ever do without good cause. We know that a smaller fraction of you favored this setting so we want to be clear with why its removal was a necessity to move forward with these improvements to ownership and foreign expansion.

Outlook​

I would like to end today’s Dev Diary by providing a short outlook for what these changes also enable us to do in the future.

The main thing here is affecting Companies.

The way we have reworked ownership allows us to create Company headquarter buildings which can then own specific building levels of industries they care about, determining its profitability from and providing their throughput bonuses only to these. While we cannot provide a concrete timeline for that change at this point, it is something we would like to tackle for one of our next free updates.

That’s it for today. Check back next week when Mikael is going to walk you through what changes 1.7 and Sphere of Influence brings to relations and interactions between Overlords and Subjects, including how these foreign investment mechanics relate to your grip over your extended empire.

Overview for all upcoming Dev Diaries:
Date Topic
4th AprilSubject Interactions
11th AprilLobbies and More on Power Blocs
18th AprilThe Great Game
25th AprilThe Art of Sphere of Influence
2nd MayChangelog 1.7
 
  • 189Love
  • 123Like
  • 9
  • 8
  • 3
Reactions:
The game does not distinguish between production methods. There is always one PM active for a whole building, no matter who owns how many levels. The controller of the country where the building is located also controls the PM that is active.
I can appreciate that this may have been done for technical reasons, but it feels somewhat incorrect that this isn't dictated by the majority owner. I'd also have expected some way for technologically advanced states to invest into a lower tech state and use their advanced technology to operate more efficient industries (especially in resource extraction) which clearly won't be possible if the controlling state is the one making the decision re: PMs
 
Last edited:
  • 8
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
No but to be honest most current capitalist would choose a return now of 5-10% over a probability of a higher return
See, that would be a problem for smaller and lesser developed nations in which merely building something can cause them to go in the red.

At least now between building plants and mines you could go negative in budget for while then switch to building like Farms and Plantations using the Investment Funds to let the budget go surplus for a while in order to build a gold treasury and pull up the economy before focusing on building stuff without the investment funds again.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Wonderful. I have two questions:

1. Regarding dividend taxes, are they paid in the country where the production building or financial district/manor house is located?
2. I assume that constructing a building in a different country utilizes your local construction queue and resources?

The only issue I see is that a country may peacefully nationalize buildings without the consent of the country that built them. Construction involves not just cost but, more importantly, time. It will be very risky to build in another country if they can nationalize businesses without any consequences. I hope this can be changed in the future to require a proposal that needs to be accepted.
 
  • 3
Reactions:
"Because of this it no longer makes sense for players to be in charge of both public and private investments simultaneously, and as such the Directly Controlled Investment Pool rule has had to be removed for 1.7 and beyond."


I very very very dislike.

So I as a player only can build governmental buildings?
No. You can still build any building you want. Farms, mines, steel mills, etc. Anything.

But you can no longer play with the game rule that disabled the Investment Pool. So there will always be your construction queue and the automatic construction queue your pops control, with all the laws that define how the investment split applies.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I didn't understand one thing - if I invest in a coal mine in another country, will I receive only money or money and coal?
You just get the dividents, but these systems are meant to be used together with diplomancy and sphere of influence.

You will invest in countries in your market at the very least.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Will there be already invested levels of buildings at the start of the game? For example British and Dutch Indian colonies?
Yes, we are including some kind of setup where that is the case. Just a small disclaimer: It's surely not going to be fully historic, especially not in all countries, but we're rather working with guidelines on how to distribute ownership buildings etc.
This is something we can easily tweak over time like any of our other historical setup attributes, e.g. resources, starting buildings, laws and so on.
 
  • 26Like
  • 11
  • 6Love
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
The changes look awesome, a couple questions:

1. With the changes to ownership, I am curious to production methods and the potential automation of setting production methods. It would make sense to me that those who own the factories would be able to determine the production methods for those factories. Is this something to is looked at, or something potentially for the future?
2. In game I’ve noticed that discriminated Pops within a countries would still be able to be Capitalist or Aristocrats. As far as my understanding goes, often within nations discriminated Pops would have less rights or be outlawed from owning or doing certain things. Does building ownership prevent discriminated pops from investing? I do believe this is already a thing for military buildings where only non-discriminated pops can join the military.
3. While properly a question for next week dev diary, I have been wondering if it would be possible to divide subject into smaller nations? For instance If you were to subjugate China, will it be possible to divide the nation up into smaller parts?

To expand a little more on the first and second question. Personally I would like the idea of having additional laws that focus more specifically rights of certain pops and laws that influence the control you have as the government when ruling your nation.

Like laws :
- that include if certain pops are allowed from having ownership in factions or farms or railway / ports.
- In terms of discriminated pops whenever they may work in government buildings, factories or farms, or join the military but only as service men but not as officers.
- In terms of government control whenever as the government you can have control over production methods or not, or only of non privatised ones.

I think laws like these will would allow you to tailor your nations more accurately to a specific vision but also bring new fun challenges.

Thanks for reading and looking forward to the expansion!
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Can I change the production method in a building abroad where most of the levels are owned by my capitalists?
I think this was already covered in this dev response:
The game does not distinguish between production methods. There is always one PM active for a whole building, no matter who owns how many levels. The controller of the country where the building is located also controls the PM that is active.
 
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions:
Thought about one more thing. Is the price of nationalization/proceeds from privatization going to be modified by productivity/profit of the building within [timeframe?] Otherwise selling off unprofitable industries could net as much as profitable ones.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
I'm wondering about subjects like the EIC or the formable African colonies, this will be great to solve the issue of never having enough accepted pops for owners to fill the rest of the workforce but also, does this means they won't be able to fill a financial center? SHOULD they have financial centers or should their buildings be auto-sold to their overlord?

I'm also wondering about being able to auto-sell in interventionism or co-op. You do build quite a lot of stuff especially as the game goes on, hope it's not much of a chore to sell all that manually.
Ideally, the colonies have a small privately-owned sector I'd say. But then they'd mainly build government owned buildings which do not require a financial district.
Maybe we could expand our laws to define what happens to these buildings in the future.

Auto-sell sounds like a neat idea, yes. Not coming with release, but I'm taking a note.
 
  • 21Like
  • 13
Reactions:
You need to do something about foreign investment and technology. Being able to invest into another country is fine, but if you are restricted to the antiquated technologies of the owner country, it will remain mostly useless. You'll still have to annex the place if you want to develop resources abroad. Paradox, you are missing the point of why people asked for foreign investments in the first place here.
 
  • 5
  • 4
Reactions:
Simply amazing DD! I’m extremely hyped for this!

By the way, when a foreign country owns buildings in my country, I’m assuming the production output is kept nationally, and the profits are sent overseas, no?

If that’s the case, will there be any way to tax some of these profits?
Correct, output stays in the country, profits are sent overseas.

Do you mean you'd want an additional tax specifically for profits made outside your country? Because of course any profits are taxed the usual way your country does taxation if the law applies, e.g. income, no matter where their income is coming from.
 
  • 18
  • 5Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
Amazing, this is really transformational! I am looking to play with it.

have you encountered the situation that your wealthy pops prefer to invest overseas than in your nation?

Can owners disinvest from one building if it is running a deficit? How often will they do it?

Thank you! very bold move
Depending on the circumstances, yes it can happen that they prefer investing outside. But I wouldn't say it's the default.

As I mentioned in another reply:
"Buildings with several unstaffed levels and that are at least 50% privately owned, can autonomously reduce their privately owned levels if they fail to hire for an extended period of time."
 
  • 17
  • 4Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
This seems like a good balance between "you have to micromanage every single aspect of production" and "impotently tear your hair out while the dumb capitalist AI runs your economy into the ground over and over again".
 
  • 3
Reactions: