Will Diablerie be a game mechanic?

[Sardukhar]

p.s. welcome to the forum Sard! Sild here

Thanks, buddy!

Dammit I can't even ban you here. I feel only pain now.


So, it -is- Thinblood, eh? Very interesting. I wonder if that could mean..can we still see daylight? Would that be a thing?

And if we can Diablerize...will it be plot-only or a feasible game mechanic? I doubt the latter, but could be very cool if done right.

Make social gameplay an issue for sure, though.

 

[Demon Investor]

And if we can Diablerize...will it be plot-only or a feasible game mechanic? I doubt the latter, but could be very cool if done right.

The answer for that is in my last sentence as i thought it to be a good idea to give a short overview how V5 define thin-bloods in terms of rules.

V5 thinbloods (p109 onwards):
- Thinbloods cannot produce Blood bond or embrace other vampires. Their blood gives human ghul powers for just one night. Their blood potency counts as 0 (so not really vampire)
- They're considered clanless - so no specific clan weaknesses
- They take more or less the same damage as humans do (vampires shrug of shots to the bellies, humans die...). Though they heal like vampires (easier than humans, but with blood cost if i remember correctly). Staking as an example the rulebook gives doesn't incapitate them as it does vampires, but really hurts them (like it would humans).
- Thinbloods only discipline within the core-rulebook would be blood alchemy (which they still would need to buy!, so not automatically). They can gain one dot in singular disciplines by drinking blood of people very heavily into certain emotions (the blood of the queen on the dance floor as an example might give them 1 point of majesty). They'll loose those powers until they become to hungry or drink from someone else.
- A thinblood hungers like vampires; but don't frenzy normally like them.
- The blush of life (meaning having actually blood pumping through your body, therefore making the body breath, warm, allowing for sex and so on) is automatically on for them without a cost. Though the specific effects still rely on how humane (humanity stat) they're still.
- Direct Sunlight deals only superficial damage for them. With hard sun cover they might take only every x rounds damage from the sun.

They can choose certain flaws/merits (needs to take 1:1; p182 onward):
The flaws range from giving them normal vampire flaws to maing them zombie looking / without vamp teeth.
The merits range from giving them vampire powers to making them more human (always maxed humanity blush of life), having access to blood alchemy.
Also there's a merit for no sun damage but half health points and no vampire power in the sun.

 

[Sh4ark]

The answer for that is in my last sentence as i thought it to be a good idea to give a short overview how V5 define thin-bloods in terms of rules.

V5 thinbloods (p109 onwards):
- Thinbloods cannot produce Blood bond or embrace other vampires. Their blood gives human ghul powers for just one night. Their blood potency counts as 0 (so not really vampire)
- They're considered clanless - so no specific clan weaknesses
- They take more or less the same damage as humans do (vampires shrug of shots to the bellies, humans die...). Though they heal like vampires (easier than humans, but with blood cost if i remember correctly). Staking as an example the rulebook gives doesn't incapitate them as it does vampires, but really hurts them (like it would humans).
- Thinbloods only discipline within the core-rulebook would be blood alchemy (which they still would need to buy!, so not automatically). They can gain one dot in singular disciplines by drinking blood of people very heavily into certain emotions (the blood of the queen on the dance floor as an example might give them 1 point of majesty). They'll loose those powers until they become to hungry or drink from someone else.
- A thinblood hungers like vampires; but don't frenzy normally like them.
- The blush of life (meaning having actually blood pumping through your body, therefore making the body breath, warm, allowing for sex and so on) is automatically on for them without a cost. Though the specific effects still rely on how humane (humanity stat) they're still.
- Direct Sunlight deals only superficial damage for them. With hard sun cover they might take only every x rounds damage from the sun.

They can choose certain flaws/merits (needs to take 1:1; p182 onward):
The flaws range from giving them normal vampire flaws to maing them zombie looking / without vamp teeth.
The merits range from giving them vampire powers to making them more human (always maxed humanity blush of life), having access to blood alchemy.
Also there's a merit for no sun damage but half health points and no vampire power in the sun.

So what happens to Thinbloods when they diablerise another full vamp? And how do you see that happening whithout becoming a pariah in the vamp world? I understand it's typically allowed through Blood Hunts but nothing more.

 

[Carmilla]

So what happens to Thinbloods when they diablerise another full vamp? And how do you see that happening whithout becoming a pariah in the vamp world? I understand it's typically allowed through Blood Hunts but nothing more.

V5 retconned thinbloods to turning into the clan of the vampire they diablerize. I can quote the passage if you want to read it.

 

[Sh4ark]

V5 retconned thinbloods to turning into the clan of the vampire they diablerize. I can quote the passage if you want to read it.

I'd be much obliged!

 

[Carmilla]

I'd be much obliged!

Here's a more or less direct quote:

Ways Out

Straddling the line between mortality and vampirism, thin-bloods have a choice. While they do not age, and can thus stay thin-bloods indefinitely, most of their kind sooner or later chooses the day or the night. A thin-blood who manages to commit diablerie on a “true” Kindred absorbs not only their power and spirit but also their lineage, turning them into a 13th generation Kindred of their victim’s clan. The Camarilla occasionally dangles this prize in front of dusk-born who show themselves capable of running the dirtiest of errands and surviving, offering up a Cainite sentenced to a Blood Hunt as sacrifice.

Conversely, every thin-blood knows someone who knows someone who returned to the daylight. The story usually goes that they became mortal again by clinging to their humanity until they could hunt down and end their sire, thus ending their curse.

Of course, any mortal who knows about the Kindred is a threat to the Masquerade

 

[Demon Investor]

So what happens to Thinbloods when they diablerise another full vamp? And how do you see that happening whithout becoming a pariah in the vamp world? I understand it's typically allowed through Blood Hunts but nothing more.

As thinblood you're a pariah to begin with.
While V5 pushes the idea to play thinbloods, they're still not really accepted by other vampires:

p110 V5:"
Many Kindred view the thin-bloods as a threat to the
Masquerade and will destroy them, if given the chance.
The thin-blooded can be of any mortal origin and
are not affected by their parent clan’s curse nor by their
preferences in the same degree as their sire. If they are
allowed to rise, they will likely be turned away, gaining
the luxury of freedom and the danger of solitude.
In 2009 the Inner Circle of the Camarilla issued
an edict that all thin-blooded must be branded or
tattooed with the “mark of the crescent moon”. Inked
by a Tremere tattoo artist or scorched with a beam of
sunlight, the brand is irreversible. Even Anarchs and
unbound think twice before associating with a marked
Mercurian.
"

Also to offer a few more informations about Caitiff/Thin-Bloods, as people are prone to mislabel the informations we got so far; Caitiffs are vampires without a predetermined set of disciplines and without the specific bane of the established clans.
p105 onward
"
Not all Kindred inherit the curse of one
of the 13. Some don’t care what their
lineage is. Certain bloodlines of kindred
have always been clanless, and
sometimes childer of the clans are just born different.
They’re often discarded, exiled, or choose to distance
themselves from the clans that despise them. Pure
vampires, the Caitiff make up for what they lose in
respect and pedigree by flexible blood and the absence
of a crippling bane. Proud or ashamed of their clanless
nature as they may be, these creatures have no family
and represents vampirism at its purest and most
individualistic.
"
Rule wise they choose 3 disciplines they like as their starting disciplines and instead of gaining a sepcific clan bane they gain penalties in social interactions with people who know they're Caitiffs. And while other clans buy their clan discipline as Dots x 5, they buy their disciplines with dots x6 in experience cost.

 

[Sh4ark]

Here's a more or less direct quote:

Very interesting!

Is it at all possible to become the equivalent of a lower gen vampire? The quote specifies the thinblood becoming a 13th gen vampire but is that independent of the diablerized vampire? say, if he's from an earlier gen?

Is it possible for full-vampires and not thinbloods? Or not a thing?

 

[Carmilla]

Very interesting!

Is it at all possible to become the equivalent of a lower gen vampire? The quote specifies the thinblood becoming a 13th gen vampire but is that independent of the diablerized vampire? say, if he's from an earlier gen?

Is it possible for full-vampires and not thinbloods? Or not a thing?

Going by how it's written, short of diablerizing a third gen, second gen or Caine, I'd say the generation doesn't matter due to how weak the vampiric curse is in thinbloods. But after that I imagine they can keep lowering it via diablerie. If they can stomach eating peoples souls, risking being possessed by their victims, having their minds borked from the victims influence(doing it can risk altering your personality IIRC) and so on. Plus until the tell tale signs goes away, you are pretty much kill on sight everywhere that doesn't tolerate diablerie which isn't few places.

So I imagine they'll handwave the whole thing with "Prince said so" or some such since V5 mentions it.

 

[Velorian]

The way it's written it assumes that the diablerized isn't also thin-blooded. Which is 50% for a gen 14 and almost none at 13th. I assume it just means even a 15th gen vamp can skip to 13th gen if they drain someone from that generation.

Probably not a 15th gen draining a 14th non-thin blood and becoming 13th gen. Unless that's a special rule?

It seems the kind of unspecific phrasing that wouldn't rule out becoming lower than 13th gen if you for instance drained a 7th gen, that's just not assumed plausible perhaps. It just seems to me there should still be newly embraced lower generation vampires from time to time?