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Thoughts on the new 1178 start date?

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Rudolf Nechvile II

Rudolf Nechvile II

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As the title says, how is everyone feeling about the new start date? From the perspective of the Romans, 1204 would in my opinion have been more interesting as a player.

I know that 1178 is close to the end of Manuel I Komnenos' reign which eventually leads to the Fourth Crusade, but I personally, I think as a player it's way more interesting playing the rise to power as one of the successors, rather playing/preventing the decline. For example you could play as the Latin usurpers and try to claim legitimacy as the true Emperor of the Romans, or perhaps start a Second Komnenoi Restoration from Trebizond.

My biggest fear is just that I don't want them to railroad the 1204 sack, which from the perspective of 1178 was far from inevitable. I'm also not sure how fun it is to intentionally go into a fall (just to restore yourself), nor might it be fun to be forced down this road.

I'm not that thrilled with the chosen date (especially since we're highly unlikely to get more), but I'm willing to accept I might be in the minority on this. I'm also open to being convinced on 1178, so I'd like to hear everyone else's opinion!
 
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But in 1178 you have many other extremely iconic characters around. Especially the people around the third crusade like Saladin, Barbarossa and Richard Lionheart. Also of course still Henry II of England or Henry the Lion in Germany.
 
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Either 1204 or 1081 were more settled start dates. But this could be interesting as well. I think the 4th Crusade shouldn't be railroaded and more of a diplomatic play situation if you or the AI anger both Venice and the Pope too much as the ERE. But that should be a thing for a later chapter (Trade mechanics as well).

I would have loved the Iron Century or 1204 more to be honest. But 1204 is not feasible for Imperialism in the ERE and the Iron Century is a bit of a weird start with Romanos Lekapenos and Constantine VII where the power play would be hard to pull off. And 1081 is too close to the 1066 start date in my opinion.

So 1187 is probably the most grounded choice for such an expansion.
 
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Rudolf Nechvile II said:
As the title says, how is everyone feeling about the new start date? From the perspective of the Romans, 1204 would in my opinion have been more interesting as a player.
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Why would the Byzantine DLC add a start date when there was no Byzantine empire? Or do you mean prior to April? Then the sack would HAVE to be railroaded.
Tschobo said:
Either 1204 or 1081
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Why would they add a start date barely a decade after the old one?
 
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Garbageolopogos said:
Why would the Byzantine DLC add a start date when there was no Byzantine empire? Or do you mean prior to April? Then the sack would HAVE to be railroaded.

Why would they add a start date barely a decade after the old one?
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They finish their post saying 1081 is too soon to the original hence not a feasible choice.

And 1081 is too close to the 1066 start date in my opinion.
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I did an 1144 bookmark for my CK2 mod, which gave you an interesting situation in Byzantium (Manuel is emperor), a newly-independent Portugal, Louis VII married to Eleanor of Aquitaine, and The Anarchy in England. I enjoyed it, but I appreciate that the civil war is difficult to emulate without proper mechanics, and that most people will prefer playing as the established Plantagenet dynasty under Henry II and his sons rather than Geoffrey the Handsome as a rebellious vassal in Normandy. :D
 
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Pied-Noir said:
I did an 1144 bookmark for my CK2 mod, which gave you an interesting situation in Byzantium (Manuel is emperor), a newly-independent Portugal, Louis VII married to Eleanor of Aquitaine, and The Anarchy in England. I enjoyed it, but I appreciate that the civil war is difficult to emulate without proper mechanics, and that most people will prefer playing as the established Plantagenet dynasty under Henry II and his sons rather than Geoffrey the Handsome as a rebellious vassal in Normandy. :D
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What mod? :)
 
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I very much like it because it opens many interesting possibilities:Manuel is gonna die at 2 years and then comes in power his young son Alexios II,Andronikos is waiting at the corner,there is also the daughter of Manuel Maria and Renier of Montferrat.To add also the Angeloi dynasty claimants.
 
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I think 1204 is fun yes, but its like setting the game in 1096 just as the 1st crusade starts, it's way too much on the entrance.
It's better to have some years before the 'true interesting time', so you can either take part in it's construction or be able to diverge from it.

So yeah, I was also surprised, but I welcomed it for these reasons and others. I still wish for a later date, but it would have to come along with content appropriate, and not just a thrown out start date. And if Project Caesar (cough cough) won't let me be a shrewd, but wanton and dilettante, enlightened king with lots of struggle between my family and vassal lineages, then I wish to get as close to that in CK3 as I can (that is, if PoCa doesn't let me).
At the same time, for the late medieval and early modern we would need more sophisticated state management, centralization of power, diets and more active estates, which escapes what CK3 is about...

All in all, a very good date, that probably has many more reasons to have been chosen than we are seeing now. There is lot of map to cover when choosing a date.
 
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I'm happy with any bookmark that's closer to the end date for a list of reasons.

Also 1178 could lay the groundwork for a future Crusades DLC since you can actually now play as the famed King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem himself and the Kingdom of Jerusalem is already set up in a strong position.
 
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This new start date better include mechanics for the upcoming 4th Crusade or I'll be upset. I'm not sure if I want another struggle, but I'd like to explore multiple possible endings for this. *cough* full greekaboo Bulgaria *cough*
 
Koppel235 said:
Its the leprosy,he had an agressive type,so whatever stats he will be on timer.
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The player has many cheesing tactics at their disposal to make him live to see 90, it's not very difficult to extend your lifespan in this game.

Regardless, it's not about him, it's about the kingdom of Jerusalem as an entity that has already been established and in a strong position.
 
X_FloW said:
The player has many cheesing tactics at their disposal to make him live to see 90, it's not very difficult to extend your lifespan in this game.

Regardless, it's not about him, it's about the kingdom of Jerusalem as an entity that has already been established and in a strong position.
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Baldwin should die at his historical day,cheesing it would be a cop out.Trying to navigate the kingdom of Jerusalem after his death would be a challenge.
 
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1204 would not be a good place to showcase the depth of the new landless mechanics. 1178 the byzantine empire was in an era of resurgence and its administrative and bureaucratic systems were in full swing, 1204 would mean we wouldn't get to see and play as bureaucrats because we'll be too focused on reviving the empire and all that jazz. I think for what the devs are going for and the new mechanics being added 1178 is pretty good start date.
 
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Yeah it doesn't make sense to introduce a new government/style of play and then add a bookmark at the moment that system of government was destroyed.
 
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