Suggestions for Formable Nations Rework

[j.margenat]

The problem I find with formables is it pretty much requires you to obliterate an entire continent... Al-Andalus will require you to attack Axis and Allies. By the time you are strong enough as Spain, US will be in Allies, and when you go to war there is no "white peace" therefore obliteration and complete conquer is your only option which absolutely blows up the borders of Al-Andalus, all it is a historic name, not the historic borders which is the goal.... This goes for any land seizure or border acquisition, it's frustrating that in such a diplomatic period there is no diplomacy.... They really need to prioritize the peace time game mechanics and peace negotiations... I don't play a single game without the mod "player-led peace conference"

Many of these formables are doable only in ahistorical and with decolonitations rules. Al-Andalus will "work" if you set ahistorical, with sattered spain and britain so you can pick morroco and conquer the peninsula, then go for algiers until you reach yemen. In historical most formables are imposible as require beating Allies, Axis or both of them so for example with greece you wont be able to form Byzantium as you need Egypt and Italy so you have to declare on GB and Italy.

But i guess you could start an ahistorical game and tag many nations, annex with the console and form many tags so you can have a ww2 involving byzantium, Austria-Hungary, the polish-lithuaniam commonwealth, the mugal empire, etc...

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Excellent suggestions, @Kosaki MacTavish. A few additional remarcs form us:
- Iceland and Scandinavia should be allowed to form the Nordic league.
- A restored Caliphate should get cores on all of Soviet Central Asia and Northern Caucasus as well. While the medieval Umayyad Caliphate didn't control these areas, they have a muslim majority population durin WW2.

When the Ottoman Empire are restored, the capital should've been moved to Istanbul. Perhaps with the name of city and state changed into Konstantiniyye

This should be probably a decision for this. Moving the capital back would fit the Ottoman restoration theme, but unless the Balcan states are reconquered it would place the capital dangerously close to the border.

 

[Question]

I think all the formable nations should just let you get cores first, then you can justify to take the cores back. If they really are your cores, then you should have full access to them immediately, not just conquer a whole bunch of territory and then "suddenly" everyone there accepts you as the legitimate owner. This would make forming nations a lot easier, for example Greece has serious manpower issues while farming Byzantine because they cant get the cores till after they conquer the balkans and Turkey...then after that, they get so much manpower they dont know what to do with it, because the game is pretty much over at that point.

I did a test run and it felt a lot smoother if you could use a decision to get the cores then start justifying to take them back. Still requires a lot of time to build up industry, etc first though.

On a related note, why do the byzantine decisions say that you must control "all" states but you dont need to? For example, you dont need zara and you dont get cores for it. Theres an island to the SW of Italy that you dont need either, even though it is Italy's core.

 

[Kosaki MacTavish]

Looks like they didn't listen

 

[TheKillingJoke]

I like formable nations personally. It's always fun in a sandbox to just go to town and have fun. Playing historically every single time will get boring and adds no replayability. Formable nations add replayability and other goals to do when playing this game which provides for a healthier game life.

Formable nations do not affect the historical-preffered players. Well thats not true. The enemy can form a formable nation, so I do agree that this should have an option in the game rules to either turn them off all together, or just turn them off for the AI or free-for-all on the rules.

It's an option.


Anyways, this was a great post @OP!

 

[TheKillingJoke]

Controversial opinion, but I don't think they should really focus on formable nations.

They're silly, ahistorical, and overpowered in most cases. Most of the ones that have been added are easter eggs that most players won't likely ever see or ever succeed in forming. Jokes, basically.

I've gotten the impression that the demands for coring and formables mostly comes from younger players who struggle and want things to become easier. To me, part of the fun in the game is dealing with and overcoming the limitations of a given nation. If you want to play Australia, then of course manpower will be an issue. People usually demand things like formables because they want more factory slots and manpower, to which I would say: just play a bigger country like the United States, Britain, France, Soviet Union, etc.

I think this may be the thinking of the developers on the subject to some extent, see their choice of backing away from the Franco-British Union.



This sounds more like a fertile territory for mods tbh. I think it would be a waste of time for developers to focus on these things. There is already plenty of silly stuff in the game as it is, if you want more, there ARE mods for that, plenty of them.

People are fine with the occasional silly easter egg, but I don't think most people would be ok with alien invasion, fire breathing dragons, wizards, and other similarly silly stuff that is on the same tier as asking for a fleshed out byzantine path if it comes at the expense of more historically rooted and plausible content. A bit of silly stuff is fine, but it should have at least some basis in the period's history(see the silly Anarchist Spain world conquest path which looks pretty fun as an example).

For Greece, it'd be more worthwhile seeing something like the Megali Idea fleshed out for a far-right/fascist government. As far fetched as it was, at least it was contemporary(1920's) as opposed to bringing back a long dead medieval empire that nobody contemplated. The Byzantine formable would still be there as a decision for those that want it.

I have a question. Why does the formable nation thing bother you? If you don't want to form them, nothing is stopping you from doing so. Are you trying to take away someone elses toy or is it more of, you rather the developers focus more on the historical side of things? Isn't their a proper balance to things that we could have?

 

[Kosaki MacTavish]

Looks like they didn't listen

Whelp, as of 1.9.3, they did listen to some of minor changes i proposed such as coring the post 1.6 states. And Portuguese decision to return East Timor to Dutch East Indies is good too.

But still Al-Andalus exist and no Maghreb or Reworked Arabia, 5/10

I have a question. Why does the formable nation thing bother you? If you don't want to form them, nothing is stopping you from doing so. Are you trying to take away someone elses toy or is it more of, you rather the developers focus more on the historical side of things? Isn't their a proper balance to things that we could have?

Let him be.

By the way, if this is considered unnecessary necro, you may lock this thread, admin. Still, i would use this as a reference for the upcoming development phase if the devs like @Meka66 decides to bring another formable, though.

 

[RELee]

Your wish ... our rules. Locked for necromancy.