In the game, Dai Viet is the weakest among the Big4 mainland SEA, and usually eaten alive by Lang Xang (the other big players already have at least 14 provinces at the start of the game, while in-game Dai Viet has only 10 poor provinces). However, in historical records, Lang Xang was never seriously considered as a threat to Dai Viet's hegemony and even rarely mentioned. In 1445, Dai Viet was very populous compared to its neighbors - around 8 millions inhabitants (in comparison Britain only had 2 million people around that time). Dai Viet did possess a very strong economic foundation to raise such amount of population (& large army as well). In fact, 1444 Dai Viet was already split into 14 provinces, all of which exist till today. Therefore, more provinces and more development is needed to more properly reflect Dai Viet's position against its neighbors.
But before digging down to Dai Viet's content, we must speak something about Champa - the main competitor and a victim of Dai Viet's expansion. Today, Champa history is an integral part of Vietnam history, yet sometimes being overlooked. But thank to @Po-IndraNdah 's extensive studies on the Cham manuscripts, we now have a chance to review the fascinating history of the Cham and a more in-depth understanding of the region. Hope that if we are lucky enough to have some updates for Dai Viet, it would be accompanied by that of Champa. (You can scroll down on the comments, @Po-IndraNdah has made some more excellent points there)
I. PROVINCES
Now into Dai Viet, first things first, Dong Kinh - the capital of Dai Viet, should be renamed to Thang Long (Thăng Long).
ADDITIONS TO DAI VIET NORTHERN PROVINCES:
1. Hung Hoa: should be further split into 2 provinces: Hung Hoa and Tuyen Quang - a historical natural northwest shield for the capital Thang Long and a military center against mountainous tribal infiltration from Laos.
2. Cao Bang and part of Quang Ninh: should be split into Cao Bang and Lang Son - a main gate against China's factions in diplomatic and espionage activities, even till today. Lang Son is high land and Cao Bang is mountainous, thus Chinese invaders usually infiltrated through Lang Son route because it was easier for their supply line. Also, because Cao Bang was mountainous, it was the strong fortress of the Mac dynasty after their defeat by the Le Dynasty under the leadership of Trinh Lords.
3. Thang Long: should be split to Thang Long and Thai Nguyen. Thang Long was never truly lied in the north bank of the Red River as it was a high risk considering invasions from China, so the river played as a natural defensive barrier for the citadel to the south. Lying in the North was Thai Nguyen, the final defensive battle field against northern invaders before reaching the capital, it was also a rich province in tea and handicraft trading and usually was estates for the ruling mandarin class (until now Thai Nguyen tea is still regarded highly and is an important export specialty of Vietnam).
4. Ha Tinh and Hue: it is more proper to combine half of Ha Tinh and half of Hue to form Quang Binh province - the defensive zone of Nguyen Lords against Trinh Lords in the north. Nguyen Lords built a mighty defensive fort there, an administrative center in Hue, and economic center in Da Nang. Nguyễn Ánh, the last legitimate survivor of Nguyen Lords and the founder of the Nguyen Dysnasty, used his forefather fort in Quang Binh province to win his final and decisive battle against the Tay Son Dysnasty in 1802. Historically, without Quang Binh province, Nguyen Lords and Nguyen Dynasty would soon have been exterminated.
EDIT NOTE: I made the map of Dai Viet's northern provinces out of haste and convenient, actually the map and names presented here by @Imperium84 is more historically and administratively accurate for Dai Viet in 1445:
Next, it is the ADDITIONS TO DAI VIET SOUTHERN PROVINCES:
5. Prek Russey: should be divided into Phsar Dek (Vinh Long) province and currently Prek Russey (Can Tho province in Vietnamese). These two provinces were the backbone of Nguyen Anh's economy against the Tay Son. Vinh Long - Sa Dec - My Tho was also famous for being a florishing trading center in South China Sea when the Ming refugee established their town there in 17th century, unfortunately it was completely sacked in a horrible destructive campaign by Tay Son army when they found out that the Cantonese traders in My Tho had been financing Nguyen Anh's army. The Mekong river was said to have turned red that day.
6. Teuk Khmao: split into Teuk Khmao (Ca Mau) and Nokor Phnom (Ha Tien) - an utmost important province for millitary campaigns against Siam and a center for pirate activities in Gulf of Siam. It is also a refuge destination for Ming refugees (with Cantonese culture) and a close vassal of Nguyen Lords. Mạc Thiên Tứ, the marquis of the Principality of Ha Tien, died in Bangkok in his act of support for Nguyễn Ánh against the hostility of Siam King Taksin in the 1770s. You could make a great event on this, Ha Tien (which is least developed at that time) will be transformed to Cantonese culture, with the benefit of increasing Taxation and Produciton by, say, 5 each, and damage the relationship with Chinese fractions, Khmer and Ayutthaya by -60 each.
Together, these southern provinces form Lục Tỉnh Nam Kỳ (literally Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam, although not really historically correct but for the sake of game simplicity Lục Tỉnh Nam Kỳ includes Dapey (Binh Phuoc), Prey Nokor (Sai Gon - Gia Dinh), Phsar Dek (Vinh Long), Prek Russey (Can Tho), Tek Khmao (Ca Mau), Nokor Phnom (Ha Tien), so we will have all Six Provinces if 5&6 exist). Lục Tỉnh Nam Kỳ marked the end of Nam Tiến (the Southward Advance) and was the foundation for Tây Tiến (the Westward Advance) - in which Dai Viet under Nguyen Dynasty annexed some parts of Laos and most part of Cambodia in 1832 (excluding Angkor, Battambang and Pursat were annexed to Siam) right after the Siamese-Vietnamese war. Lục Tỉnh Nam Kỳ was also the place where Nguyen Anh built his force, where the French set their firmed foothold in Dai Viet soil, and the birth place of the Republic of Vietnam 150 years later. So including all Six Provinces of Southen Vietnam is quite important for the Vietnamese and increases the depth of the game. Therefore, please make Nam Tiến a Mission Tree with this Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam as a condition.
This is a somewhat clear map at the end of Nam Tiến:
Lastly, Sip Song Chau Tai should be able to be released as a vassal of Dai Viet after Dai Viet - Lang Xang war.
en.wikipedia.org
All the regions are historically devided and there is no above 5-province region:
II. TRADES
In 15-16 century, after the defeat of Champa, trade are pretty much shifted to Da Nang, Vijaya was reduced to nothing since then. One of the most profitable trade port in Asia at that time was Hoi An, a city in Da Nang (today it is famous for its old architect and culture, and is one of the most charming tourist attractions in Vietnam) with its own Chinese, Japanese, Thais and Dutch town. Therefore, I think you should make Da Nang a world trade center, not Vijaya. Chams kings desired this land, so it would induce them to take war actions against Dai Viet in the game.
Region 4: Quang Binh, Hue, Da Nang should be in Siam trade node, not Canton. They were and still are more connected to the south of Vietnam than to the north. That given, Dai Viet player will be more inclided to expand southward to control more trading activities.
III. RELIGION
Christianity plays a huge role in Vietnam history. In fact, the Vietnamese alphabet was first introduced by an Avignonese Jesuit missionary Alexandre de Rhodes in 17th century. I read somewhere that also in 17th century, the Trinh Lord's Queen Dowager considered to be converted to Christian, but not until for the foolishness of a missionary who said that the late Trinh Lords were surely rotten in hell because they were not Christians. Of course, the Queen Dowager had him dead by slow slicing and her son expelled all others from Dai Viet lands. Such anti-Christianity tradition was dutifully followed by later Lords and Emperors until 19th century.
In his struggle against the Tay Son, Nguyen Anh did ask and receive various support and protection under a French priest Pigneau de Behaine. Nguyen Anh even sent his son, the Crown Prince and Heir, to France. The young prince was willingly converted to Christian and attended the court of Louis XVI and signed the Treaty of Versailles 1787 which unfortunately, created a Casus belli for France invasion of Vietnam 80 years later. The young prince died before his father though, if not for his early death the status of Christianity in Vietnam would be very much different.
I think events or national decisions can be set up for a Dai Viet player to write alternative history: convert to Christianity event with the penalty of reducing stability or abandon Chinese characters & use Latin alphabet event with the result of increase institution spread but revolts all over the land. It should be really fun!
IV. MECHANICS & EVENTS
My suggested main theme:
** Speaking of culture, one of Dai Viet (or Tonkin or Quinan or Tay Son)'s idea should be "natural" culture conversion. Historiwise, Vietnamese has a tendency to assimilate and convert any culture in any conquered land to Vietnamese. Even the Chinese invaders tried to convert Vietnamese culture to Chinese for 1000 years but they themselves were converted to ... Vietnamese.
*** Only the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet is the tributary state of the Ming China, others such as Tonkin, Quinan and Tay Son were the subjects of the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet. Also, the Celestial Empire in China should not never wage war on Dai Viet's tributary states for tributary, even if that tributary shares border with China. Historically, China viewed any tributary state of Dai Viet as ... Dai Viet as a whole. So wars under the "Overthrown the Tyrant" Casus Belli or under the "Viet hegemony" Casus Belli will not be intervened by China.
Next, I also want to re-cap and integrate some main events in Vietnam history in an EU4 style, in a timeline sequence, so that you may have some overview of what has happened in Dai Viet history:
Speaking of Tay Son's victory against the China's invasion, THE CHINA THREATS MUST NOT BE NEGLECTED when playing as Dai Viet!
--> DIPLOMATIC DETERIORATION EVENTS: China will invade Dai Viet if the relation drops to distrust. Indeed, there were WHOLE LOTS OF WARS between China - Vietnam whenever the relation were bad (the previous nearest one was 1979). DAI VIET'S BIGGEST THREAT FOR EXISTENCE SHOULD BE FROM CHINA IN THE NORTH (not Lang Xang or even Siam as in the game). On average, China would try to invade Vietnam (full-scale) at least 1 time each 150 years. Therefore, Vietnam's rulers have always tried their best to maintain acceptable relationship with China. Historically, Vietnam was and always is the last barrier that stops China from extending further to South East Asia, as Vietnam is the only way to conveniently enter or exist China in the south (we the Vietnamese call this situation Lời Nguyền Địa Lý (the Curse of Geography on Vietnam) as we are forced to stuck in the mouth of a giant for thousand generations). This Lời Nguyền Địa Lý is also the root cause of Nam Tiến (the Southward Advance), the movement in which at the same time, Vietnamese defended themselves from China, meanwhile gradually extended southward to alleviate the invasion pressure from the north. The division of Vietnam under Trinh-Nguyen Lords only accelerated this movement.
--> OPINION: I think if you could integrate this relationship mechanism (the Curse of Geography on Vietnam) into the game, it would be extremely fascinating. And also there should be an impassable mountain range lying on Lang Xang&Burma borders with China.
In addition, Chinese refugee played a tremendous role in our history, so it would be nice if there is REFUGEE EVENTS: Ha Tien & Vinh Long under Chinese refugee: increase 5 for each Taxation and Production in Ha Tien & Vinh Long, culture is converted to Cantonese, religion: Confucius, -60 for relationship with Khmer, Thai and China.
Also, @Jimmyfeellucky has proposed a detailed series of events for Dai Viet in his comments below, one is so good that I want to quote him here. He also suggested that Dai Viet could use the Daimyo mechanics used in Japan. I too think that it is a very good point, as it could reflect the power struggle between powerful clans of Dai Viet - each wanted to take the throne, but non dared enough to do so.
V. MISSIONS
Definitely, Nam Tien (the Southward Advance) should be the main mission of any Dai Viet player. To capture all the Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam.
Some detailed missions proposed by @korawit13 can be really helpful:
forum.paradoxplaza.com
Optionally, after Nam Tiến, there should be a mission for Tây Tiến (the Westward Advance) in which Dai Viet annexed Eastern provinces of proper Khmer and Southern provinces of Laos. In Tây Tiến, Vietnam fought for mainland South East Asia's hegemony with its main rival: Siam/Ayyuthaya, thus Laos and Cambodia became the battle fields between the two regional powers. Here is the map after Tây Tiến:
One other important side mission is Nam Viet (Nanyue) Empire - the provinces of Liangguang: inclusing GuangXi and GuangZhou were traditional lands of the Baiyue, ancestors of today Vietnamese, who was forced to moved southward to nowadays north Viet Nam by the Han Chinese invaders. If a player could re-capture all the provinces in GuangXi and GuangZhou, one should form a nation called NAM VIET with a huge prestige and legitimacy boost. Bắc Phạt (Punishing the North) as proposed by @An Mai in the comment below would be a very appropriate name for this mission.
en.wikipedia.org
If Dai Viet is to be divided into smaller nations: the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet, Tonkin, Annam and Tay Son then the second main mission, should be to re-unite the Kingdom by destroying all other Vietnamese factions and finally marching to Thang Long to overthrow the Le emperors.
VIETNAM with capital moved to Hue should be formable when all provinces in 1445 Dai Viet, Sip Song Chau Tai, Champa's provinces, Tay Nguyen tribes, and the Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam are under Dai Viet's control. Basically, the Nguyen emperors tried to unite and heal the kingdom after 300 years of war, thus they pretty much isolate the whole country from any outsider. Therefore their ideas should be based on Production, Taxation, Religious Harmony, Espionage, Aristocrat and Defensive. Below is the flag of Việt Nam under the Nguyen Dynasty:
Finally, after accomplishing Tây Tiến mission (above), Vietnam could form ĐẠI NAM (The Great Empire of The South). For a short amount of time (1820 - 1841), Vietnam did break out from self-isolation and seek for expansions on the expense of its neighbors. Ironically, after forming the nation, the court built a habit of making poems everyday instead of training, and thus turned the country into an anti-European kingdom (maybe because the European did too much math & science, the European should have written more poems everyday
). Đại Nam became quite weak in military in a period of rapidly losing army tradition, later on turned themselves into an easy prey for the French invasion in 1858. Therefore, Đại Nam's ideas should be focusing on Maritime, Culture Harmony, Trade and Diplomat. Below is the flag of Đại Nam:
VI. CONCLUSION
All in all, Dai Viet should act as a bridge between East Asia and South East Asia. Therefore, their play-style should be focusing on:
EDITOR NOTE: thank you guys for your constructive and insightful comments on this post! There're too many excellent points and corrections in the comments below that cannot be (and I don't dare to) simply summarize here. The comments deserve to be read one by one to really understand the flow of ideas. Speaking of ideas, they are so rich in quality and quantity that this thread is looking more and more like a Wikipedia page, yet sadly uncertain to be ever read by the developers . Nevertheless, hope that this thread will be helpful for anyone in need, or just want to explore new things. Keep up and spread the knowledge
But before digging down to Dai Viet's content, we must speak something about Champa - the main competitor and a victim of Dai Viet's expansion. Today, Champa history is an integral part of Vietnam history, yet sometimes being overlooked. But thank to @Po-IndraNdah 's extensive studies on the Cham manuscripts, we now have a chance to review the fascinating history of the Cham and a more in-depth understanding of the region. Hope that if we are lucky enough to have some updates for Dai Viet, it would be accompanied by that of Champa. (You can scroll down on the comments, @Po-IndraNdah has made some more excellent points there)
By 1444, Champa is in a unique state of transition with the loss of northern territory gained during Po Binasuor (Che Bong Nga "The Red King") along with the shift in capital from Tralaun Svon (Da Nang) to Vijaya following Po Binasuor's long campaign in Northern Vietnam. While many of the formerly Hindu polities throughout Mainland SEA convert to Buddhism, Champa maintains it's Hindu character albeit in a syncretized form. Further development for Champa should occur to enrich the experience of playing in mainland SEA to better reflect the turbulent dynamics of the period.
A.
6. The impassable terrain here should instead be connected to Da Nang/Champa or at least Jarai in some way. Pilgrimage routes existed between the Cham cities along the coast and into modern day N. Cambodia (Mondulkiri and Ratanakkiri) and into Atapeu Laos. This is important as Champa relied upon these trade routes for the import of tropical woods such as agarwood which was a vital export and brought down from the mountain ranges. Additionally Cham sources for iron are referenced as having come via Attapeu directly to Vijaya via a land route.
5. Da Nang should start as a part of Champa with claims by Dai Viet. My rationale here is based on archaeological finds in modern Quang Binh and Quang Nam province which roughly cover Hue and Da Nang on this map. The material evidence I reference include stone sculptures with inscriptions explicitly dated from 1400-1444 throughout modern Quang Nam and Quang Binh province. It is likely that Da Nang did not come under the control of Dai Viet until at the earliest 1446 which is a date based off of a reference to a Cham-Viet war although the outcome is not stated nor is any mention of loss of territory. It seems slightly more likely that Da Nang was annexed with the rest of Northern Champa following the war in 1471.
4. Amaravati can possibly be changed to Hayav which was how it was possibly referenced in Cham inscriptions (not that important).
3. Vijaya's capital city was known as Nauk Glaun in all extant Cham inscriptions with Vijaya itself simply referring to the country/state.
2. Kauthara's city was known as Dauk Ja also as per inscriptions. The state/region is referred to as Manicya in two 15th c. inscriptions.
1. Panduranga is almost exclusively referred to as Panraun
*As long as Champa holds 5 provinces/principalities (namely holding Da Nang at start) then no further changes to the maps provinces are necessary.*
B. This portion is the meat of my suggestion and covers Champa's ideas. The current set of ideas for Champa while decent do not reflect the state of Champa in the mid-15th century. While a focus on maritime ideas is roughly accurate, it fails to capture an important aspect of Champa's maritime tradition - piracy, trade, and the diaspora.
Traditions: Trade efficiency 10% | May raid coast
This change in traditions would better reflect how Champa was engaged in maritime trade throughout ISEA and piracy. An important trade commodity for Champa aside from luxury goods was the trade in slaves via raiding. There is evidence of these slave raids in inscriptions from Java and also Champa. One inscription (C.42 EFEO Paris) records Śrī Bṛṣuviṣṇujāti Vīrabhadravarmadeva capturing "Viets in the land of the Viets" and "Kirendra (Degars)" whom were dedicated to a noblewoman. Additionally, some scholars have suggested that the finance held by the Cham state itself was a product of raids, warfare, and trade. The Cham state was decentralized and thus not reliant on taxation or extensive agriculture. The number of large Cham monuments and the extensive native Cham vocabulary surrounding slavery suggests slave trad and raiding played an integral part in Champa's economy.
Additional suggested changes:
- Fort defense +15% (Cham cities and centers are almost exclusively found on hills/mountains overlooking coastal areas with very few exceptions; additionally there is a strong tradition of Cham citadels recorded by The Chinese during the Song Dynasty and also again during the Yuan).
- Global settler +15 (This should come earlier as there is an established Cham tradition of living in a diaspora going back to the foundation of the Cham people and again with the migrations in the 10th century to Hainan resulting in the Tsat/Utsul people and migrations to Sumatra prior to the 15th century).
- Goods produced +10% (While Champa was not big on extensive agriculture, it was an important center for incense, precious wood, gold/silver, and most importantly the manufacturing of potters - See Bau Truc pottery village for more info or "Champa rice").
- Light ship combat ability +20% (Champa's primary strength was in their navy as evident by the Cham sackings of Angkor via a naval invasion up the Mekong River).
- Max promoted culture +1 (Champa as an entity was an amalgamation of peoples from many backgrounds. Some linguist even consider the Cham language to be a borderline creole as it is incredibly mixed with Austronesian AND Austroasiatic core features. Additionally Champa was ruled by many mixed Cham-Degar monarchs such as Po Rome).
- Yearly legitimacy/prestige (or both) +1 (As a Hindu state, Cham inscriptions often refer to monarchs as either Devaraja indicating divinity or the native Cham term Putauv - This is significant as the Cham continued a long practice of deifying historical figures such as kings and even sages which were invoked as deities for many things related to their life stories. Po Klaung Garai or Po Rome are perfect examples of deified monarchs).
- Trade range +20% (Increased trade range would better reflect the nature of Cham involvement in the maritime silk road particularly the presence of Cham merchants in Java, Butuan, Tondo, Canton, Malaya, etc. Cham goods such as pottery have also been found in South Asia and the Hadrahmut region of Yemen).
Ambition: Moral of navies +20% (This or possibly a colonist would make sense as Champa was truly maritime based which is evident by the native form of Hinduism which celebrates annual seafarring festivals despite a 150+yr disconnect from any coastal part of Vietnam. This is also seen in the foundation story of Champa via Lady Po Ina Nagar who is found at sea).
All of these ideas I believe better suit the Champa of the mid 15th century and would continue to fit until the end of the 17th century when things shift again. Additionally, Champa as a "Portugal of SEA" is a good route for an attempt at alternative history but also hearkens back to Champa's golden age which was similar to Portugal's maritime trading tradition.
C.
Possible Missions/Events:
- An event to "restore" Mỹ Sơn as the cultural and religious hub of Champa (maybe even capital?) - This could cost lots of gold and some monarch points resulting in prestige+legitimacy and a possible morale boost as the site was dedicated to a deified king Bhaddreshvara (Bhaddravarman) who often led armies.
- Mission to reconquer Hue and Ha Tinh as Po Binasuor had previously done.
- Mission/event to deify a monarch resulting in another temporary morale boost or something similar like general skill pips.
- Events/missions to interact with Degar states which should be vassals or possibly tributaries (though they often provided troops).
- Event to convert to Islam.
- Event to adopt Catholicism (Read Nola Cooke's research on late 17th c. French missionary accounts based out of Champa).
*Last note* There may be some concern that these changes may buff Champa too much however it is important to realize that Champa even at the time of Le Thanh Tong's invasion (1471), Champa was able to field a decent army despite being a decentralized state. Vietnamese sources record extensive financial losses in funding a large enough army to sustain the war. Additionally, Cham inscriptions from the 1440s recount raids and campaigns in Vietnamese and Cambodian territory with some slight expansion. The idea that Champa was in a dark age or incredibly weakened state following the death of Po Binasuor in 1390 does not match the material evidence as Champa continued to create monumental works of architecture well after the death of the "Red King".
*If you are interested in the literal inscriptions referenced then please message me and I can send the images of the inscriptions.
I. PROVINCES
Now into Dai Viet, first things first, Dong Kinh - the capital of Dai Viet, should be renamed to Thang Long (Thăng Long).
ADDITIONS TO DAI VIET NORTHERN PROVINCES:
1. Hung Hoa: should be further split into 2 provinces: Hung Hoa and Tuyen Quang - a historical natural northwest shield for the capital Thang Long and a military center against mountainous tribal infiltration from Laos.
2. Cao Bang and part of Quang Ninh: should be split into Cao Bang and Lang Son - a main gate against China's factions in diplomatic and espionage activities, even till today. Lang Son is high land and Cao Bang is mountainous, thus Chinese invaders usually infiltrated through Lang Son route because it was easier for their supply line. Also, because Cao Bang was mountainous, it was the strong fortress of the Mac dynasty after their defeat by the Le Dynasty under the leadership of Trinh Lords.
3. Thang Long: should be split to Thang Long and Thai Nguyen. Thang Long was never truly lied in the north bank of the Red River as it was a high risk considering invasions from China, so the river played as a natural defensive barrier for the citadel to the south. Lying in the North was Thai Nguyen, the final defensive battle field against northern invaders before reaching the capital, it was also a rich province in tea and handicraft trading and usually was estates for the ruling mandarin class (until now Thai Nguyen tea is still regarded highly and is an important export specialty of Vietnam).
4. Ha Tinh and Hue: it is more proper to combine half of Ha Tinh and half of Hue to form Quang Binh province - the defensive zone of Nguyen Lords against Trinh Lords in the north. Nguyen Lords built a mighty defensive fort there, an administrative center in Hue, and economic center in Da Nang. Nguyễn Ánh, the last legitimate survivor of Nguyen Lords and the founder of the Nguyen Dysnasty, used his forefather fort in Quang Binh province to win his final and decisive battle against the Tay Son Dysnasty in 1802. Historically, without Quang Binh province, Nguyen Lords and Nguyen Dynasty would soon have been exterminated.
EDIT NOTE: I made the map of Dai Viet's northern provinces out of haste and convenient, actually the map and names presented here by @Imperium84 is more historically and administratively accurate for Dai Viet in 1445:
Next, it is the ADDITIONS TO DAI VIET SOUTHERN PROVINCES:
5. Prek Russey: should be divided into Phsar Dek (Vinh Long) province and currently Prek Russey (Can Tho province in Vietnamese). These two provinces were the backbone of Nguyen Anh's economy against the Tay Son. Vinh Long - Sa Dec - My Tho was also famous for being a florishing trading center in South China Sea when the Ming refugee established their town there in 17th century, unfortunately it was completely sacked in a horrible destructive campaign by Tay Son army when they found out that the Cantonese traders in My Tho had been financing Nguyen Anh's army. The Mekong river was said to have turned red that day.
6. Teuk Khmao: split into Teuk Khmao (Ca Mau) and Nokor Phnom (Ha Tien) - an utmost important province for millitary campaigns against Siam and a center for pirate activities in Gulf of Siam. It is also a refuge destination for Ming refugees (with Cantonese culture) and a close vassal of Nguyen Lords. Mạc Thiên Tứ, the marquis of the Principality of Ha Tien, died in Bangkok in his act of support for Nguyễn Ánh against the hostility of Siam King Taksin in the 1770s. You could make a great event on this, Ha Tien (which is least developed at that time) will be transformed to Cantonese culture, with the benefit of increasing Taxation and Produciton by, say, 5 each, and damage the relationship with Chinese fractions, Khmer and Ayutthaya by -60 each.
Together, these southern provinces form Lục Tỉnh Nam Kỳ (literally Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam, although not really historically correct but for the sake of game simplicity Lục Tỉnh Nam Kỳ includes Dapey (Binh Phuoc), Prey Nokor (Sai Gon - Gia Dinh), Phsar Dek (Vinh Long), Prek Russey (Can Tho), Tek Khmao (Ca Mau), Nokor Phnom (Ha Tien), so we will have all Six Provinces if 5&6 exist). Lục Tỉnh Nam Kỳ marked the end of Nam Tiến (the Southward Advance) and was the foundation for Tây Tiến (the Westward Advance) - in which Dai Viet under Nguyen Dynasty annexed some parts of Laos and most part of Cambodia in 1832 (excluding Angkor, Battambang and Pursat were annexed to Siam) right after the Siamese-Vietnamese war. Lục Tỉnh Nam Kỳ was also the place where Nguyen Anh built his force, where the French set their firmed foothold in Dai Viet soil, and the birth place of the Republic of Vietnam 150 years later. So including all Six Provinces of Southen Vietnam is quite important for the Vietnamese and increases the depth of the game. Therefore, please make Nam Tiến a Mission Tree with this Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam as a condition.
This is a somewhat clear map at the end of Nam Tiến:
Lastly, Sip Song Chau Tai should be able to be released as a vassal of Dai Viet after Dai Viet - Lang Xang war.
Sip Song Chau Tai - Wikipedia
All the regions are historically devided and there is no above 5-province region:
- Region 1: Northwest Mountainous: 4 provinces: Hung Hoa, Cao Bang, Tuyen Quang (1), Lang Son (2)
- Region 2: Red River Delta: 4 provinces: Thang Long, Thai Nguyen (3) , Quang Ninh, Hai Phong
- Region 3: Steep lands of Royal estates: 3 provinces: Thanh Hoa, Nghe An, Ha Tinh
- Region 4: Newly acquired land from Champa: 3 provinces: Quang Binh, Hue, Da Nang
- Champa's and Tay Nguyen Regions: maintain the same
- Region 5: Immigration lands: 3 provinces: Sai Gon - Gia Dinh (Prey Nokor), Binh Phuong (Dapey), Vinh Long (Phsar Dek) (5) (there should be Dong Nai province (Nong Nai in Khmer) lies in the north-east of Sai Gon - the main battle field between Lord Nguyen Anh and Tay Son dynasty, but at this time if you could include Vinh Long province in this region then it is good enough)
- Region 6: Chinese-Vietnamese refugee lands: 4 provinces: Can Tho (Prek Russey), Ha Tien (Nokor Phnom) (6), Ca Mau (Tek Khmao) and Kambot (Vietnam at that time invaded and annexed Kambot (Cần Vọt) due to its proximity to Vietnam soil, but usually it was not officially counted into the Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam)
II. TRADES
In 15-16 century, after the defeat of Champa, trade are pretty much shifted to Da Nang, Vijaya was reduced to nothing since then. One of the most profitable trade port in Asia at that time was Hoi An, a city in Da Nang (today it is famous for its old architect and culture, and is one of the most charming tourist attractions in Vietnam) with its own Chinese, Japanese, Thais and Dutch town. Therefore, I think you should make Da Nang a world trade center, not Vijaya. Chams kings desired this land, so it would induce them to take war actions against Dai Viet in the game.
Region 4: Quang Binh, Hue, Da Nang should be in Siam trade node, not Canton. They were and still are more connected to the south of Vietnam than to the north. That given, Dai Viet player will be more inclided to expand southward to control more trading activities.
III. RELIGION
Christianity plays a huge role in Vietnam history. In fact, the Vietnamese alphabet was first introduced by an Avignonese Jesuit missionary Alexandre de Rhodes in 17th century. I read somewhere that also in 17th century, the Trinh Lord's Queen Dowager considered to be converted to Christian, but not until for the foolishness of a missionary who said that the late Trinh Lords were surely rotten in hell because they were not Christians. Of course, the Queen Dowager had him dead by slow slicing and her son expelled all others from Dai Viet lands. Such anti-Christianity tradition was dutifully followed by later Lords and Emperors until 19th century.
In his struggle against the Tay Son, Nguyen Anh did ask and receive various support and protection under a French priest Pigneau de Behaine. Nguyen Anh even sent his son, the Crown Prince and Heir, to France. The young prince was willingly converted to Christian and attended the court of Louis XVI and signed the Treaty of Versailles 1787 which unfortunately, created a Casus belli for France invasion of Vietnam 80 years later. The young prince died before his father though, if not for his early death the status of Christianity in Vietnam would be very much different.
I think events or national decisions can be set up for a Dai Viet player to write alternative history: convert to Christianity event with the penalty of reducing stability or abandon Chinese characters & use Latin alphabet event with the result of increase institution spread but revolts all over the land. It should be really fun!
IV. MECHANICS & EVENTS
My suggested main theme:
- DAI VIET is not only a nation, it is an ideology. Dai Viet is the ultimate & supreme state of the Vietnamese, any other Vietnamese factions * will ultimately form Dai Viet if such faction can destroy all other Vietnamese factions and capture the capital Thang Long. Forming Dai Viet will have a +3 stability, a prestige and legitimacy boost.
- If among all of Vietnamese factions: Dai Viet is not existing, then AN EVENT FOR LEGITIMACY happens: The Le Dynasty of Dai Viet will be automatically formed in Thang Long, and all other Vietnamese factions must become The Le Dynasty of Dai Viet's tributary, or suffer -5 legitimacy every month.
- On the other hand, if any Vietnamese faction is not a tributary of Dai Viet, Dai Viet will also suffer -1 legitimacy penalty per month per each faction.
- If The Le Dynasty of Dai Viet arbitrarily declines any tributary request from any Vietnamese faction (total of two-side relationship < 0), such faction will gain the "Overthrow the Tyrant" Casus Belli and become independent (but still able to form Dai Viet if the conditions are met), not suffering any legitimacy penalty, but Dai Viet still suffers -1 legitimacy penalty monthly. Any war war between them under the "Overthrow the Tyrant" Casus Belli will be less likely to be intervened by their non-Vietnamese allies (or at least China ***) (-200 on decision tree: It is your internal war!)
- All Vietnamese factions have permanent claim on Vietnamese lands, and war between them under the "Viet hegemony" Casus Belli will be less likely to be intervened by their non-Vietnamese allies (or at least China ***) (-200 on decision tree: It is your internal war!)
** Speaking of culture, one of Dai Viet (or Tonkin or Quinan or Tay Son)'s idea should be "natural" culture conversion. Historiwise, Vietnamese has a tendency to assimilate and convert any culture in any conquered land to Vietnamese. Even the Chinese invaders tried to convert Vietnamese culture to Chinese for 1000 years but they themselves were converted to ... Vietnamese.
*** Only the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet is the tributary state of the Ming China, others such as Tonkin, Quinan and Tay Son were the subjects of the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet. Also, the Celestial Empire in China should not never wage war on Dai Viet's tributary states for tributary, even if that tributary shares border with China. Historically, China viewed any tributary state of Dai Viet as ... Dai Viet as a whole. So wars under the "Overthrown the Tyrant" Casus Belli or under the "Viet hegemony" Casus Belli will not be intervened by China.
Next, I also want to re-cap and integrate some main events in Vietnam history in an EU4 style, in a timeline sequence, so that you may have some overview of what has happened in Dai Viet history:
- Before 1444: (from 938AD) Ngo/Dinh/Ealier Le/Ly/Tran/Ho dynasties -> (1407) Minh invasion -> (1427) Le Loi expelled the Ming, established the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet
- Begin in (1445) still the Le Dynasty > (1470) the Le Dynasty destroyed Champa, the White Elephant War with Lang Xang, a goldern era of stability, culture and rapid economic development followed
- (1505 - 1527) a series of Le Dynasty's "extremely bad" emperors killing each other, national instability, civil war raged all over the kingdom
- (1527) the Mac Dynasty overthrown the Le Dysnasty (event: Mac Pretender under), establishing the Mac Dynasty of Dai Viet (minor events: "Bau Lords rebellion" in Tuyen Quang province until 1689, trying to re-establish the Le Dynasty)
- (1533) Southern and Northern Dynasties' wars: the Trinh Lords of Tonkin and Nguyen Lords of Annam (it should actually be Quinan) supported the Revival of the Le Dynasty, attained the "Overthrow the Tyrant" Casus Belli.
- The Mac Dynasty of Dai Viet had all provinces in the north, including Thang Long.
- The Trinh Lords of Tonkin had Thanh Hoa - their capital, Nghe An, Ha Tinh.
- The Nguyen Lords of Quinan included Quang Binh, Hue - their capital, and Da Nang --> vassal of Tonkin
- Tonkin and Quinan waged war on the Mac Dynasty of Dai Viet. Ming saw this as a Dai Viet's internal conflict, so they didn't join in.
- (1592) the Mac Dynasty of Dai Viet was defeated by Tonkin. AN EVENT FOR LEGITIMACY happened: The Trinh Lords of Tonkin put the Le emperors on the throne, re-establishing the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet ruling in Thang Long (minor events: Mac continuously rebels in Cao Bang province until 1633)
(the reason for the Trinh Lords to re-establish the Le Dynasty but not make themselves the emperors is because firstly the Le Dynasty was widely loved by the Vietnamese people (the dynasty founder: Le Loi had expelled the Ming invaders 150 years ago and liberated all the Vietnamese people); secondly, Trinh Lords were fighting under the banner of the Le emperors, and finally Trinh Lords were afraid of the Nguyen Lords of Quinan - who were also fighting for the Le emperors and would surely wage war on the Trinh if Trinh Lords overthrow the Le Dynasty)
- (1627-1672) Tonkin's attempt to annex Annam (Quinan) in peace failed miserably, Tonkin attached Quinan under the "Viet hegemony" Casus Belli: 7 continuous wars between 2 ruling clans: Trinh (Tonkin) -Nguyen (Quinan), all claiming themselves to be the loyal servants and tributaries of the emperors of the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet, who rule in Thang Long.
- (from 1600 to 1832) Nam Tiến: The Nguyen Lords of Quinan rapidly expanded southward, expelled the majority of Cham and Khmer who didn't convert to Vietnamese culture. Champa was terminated, Khmer was critically weaken and became a vassal of Quinan during the Vietnamese's Nam Tiến. In the North, Tonkin attached tribals' lands in today Laos and made them its vassals.
- (1617 - 1802) Hoi An trade center event (for Quinan) and Ke Cho trade center event (for Tonkin): two Vietnamese trade center flourished and competed with each other. Traders in Asia would surely find a lucrative and exotic trade there. +10 trade steering.
- (1680 - 1704) Mac Cuu's refuge event: not submitted to the Qing dynasty in China, Mac Cuu and his people fled to Ha Tien and Vinh Long provinces, seeking protection under the Nguyen Lords of Quinan. Increase 5 for each Taxation and Production in Ha Tien & Vinh Long, culture is converted to Cantonese, religion: Confucius, -60 for relationship with Khmer, Thai and China. Vietnamese factions receive +10% piracy efficiency for 20 years.
- (1690) Nguyen Huu Canh's southward expedition event: +5 taxation & production for Gia Dinh province, +1 taxation & production for every controled provinces in Mekong delta region
- (1713) Hoang Ngu Phuc's military inspection: +5 military tradition & +5% training for Tonkin's army.
- (1740) Le Duy Mat rebel event: a royal blood with high legimacy, he rebelled in Tonkin: Nghe An province to free the Le emperors who were under the tight Trinh Lords' control. Any province he could hold after 10 years of rebellion would be transfered to the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet.
- (1777) Tay Son brothers rebellion event in Binh Dinh (Vijaya province) (formable nation: Tay Son - they also considered themselves as a tributary of the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet), their objective was initially to "liberate" the people under bad ruling of the Nguyen Lords. Firstly, fighting under the "Viet hegemony" Casus Belli, Tay Son eliminated the Nguyen Lords (Quinan) in 1777, soon they wiped out the Trinh Lords (Tonkin) in 1786. In 1789 Tay Son's Emperor Nguyen Hue officially marched to Thang Long under the "Overthrow the Tyrant" Casus Belli to overthrow the last emperor of the old Le Dynasty, and wiped the floor with a 200-thousand-armed China Qing Dynasty's invasion. Tay Son brothers established the Tay Son Dynasty of Dai Viet.
Tay Son was a formidable nation, it really were A WAR MACHINE focusing only on Military ideas, much like Tangu in Burma, as in just a very short amount of time (1777 - 1789) the Tay Son's brothers were able to completely wipe the floor out of Quinan, Tonkin, Dai Viet (various Le emperors' supporters), several Nguyen Anh's Quinan revivals (the only thing they'd fail to completely put down), also 2 Siam invasions, and even a 200K China invasion (in support for their tributary - the Le dynasty of Dai Viet when Tay Son marched into Thang Long and overthrown the Le emperors). The result of that invasion: the Tay Son defeated 200k by killing 20k Qing troops in a 7-day campaign, EXACTLY, the Tay Son army did killed 20 THOUSAND in 7 days and buried those Chinese invaders under a hill in Thang Long. After 10 years of fighting, the Tay Son nearly united the whole Vietnam, as they did establish the Tay Son Dynasty of "not-yet-united" Dai Viet in 1789 (since Nguyen Anh - the last heir of the Nguyen Lords of Quinan, were still running wild in the Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam). At that time, the Tay Son were planning to strike a final blow on Nguyen Anh, then invade China to revive the Nanyue Empire, if not for their legendary emperor: Nguyen Hue's sudden death in 1792 that stopped all their plans. Being a war machine & loosing their most important leader, the Tay Son were not able to administer their conquered lands effectively, thus had to deal with continuous rebellions and invasions in all directions at the same time. Including a formable military state like Tay Son in the game would be tremendously fun to play (conditions: Tay Son rebellion owns all Champa provinces) (and Nguyen Hue should be a 3-star general).
- (from 1778 to 1802) several Nguyen Anh's resistance event under the "Overthrone the Tyrant" Casus Belli, his Quinan re-established several times (if it was destroyed before) in the Six Southern Provinces of Vietnam - the region was surely extremely loyal to the Nguyen clan.
- (1802) Nguyen Anh gained his decisively victory against the Tay Son Dynasty of Dai Viet, took all Tay Son's provinces. Nguyen Anh marched to Thang Long and re-united a 300-year-divided-by-war kingdom. Nguyen Anh established the Nguyen Dynasty of Dai Viet, but he soon renamed Dai Viet to Vietnam
- (from 1802 - 1820) The Tale of Kieu event: Nguyen Du was a mandarin of the late Le Dynasty, and later an ambassador serving the Nguyen Dynasty. He was also a talented poet, and on a diplomatic mission to China, he began to write The Tale of Kieu - the most significant work of Vietnamese literature, also a critical and allegorical reflection of the rise of Nguyen Dynasty and the lives of ordinary people, especially women in a feudal state. +1 for diplomatic reputation, +1 stability, -5 national unrest.
- (1826) Spratly Islands (Hoàng Sa) and Paracel Islands (Trường Sa) expeditions event: Vietnam annual expeditions and navy patrols on these islands ensured the protection for the country from any threat from the sea. +10 navy tradition.
- (1832) Lê Văn Khôi's revolt event: after Emperor Nguyen Anh passed way of old age, Le Van Khoi rebel in Gia Dinh province under the "Overthrone the Tyrant" Casus Belli. Siam and Khmer intervened and support the rebel, but was expelled by the Nguyen Dynasty in 2 separate wars 1831 & 1841. Taking advantage of this, Nguyen Dynasty invaded Cambodia and some parts of Laos (which was under Siam), marking a significant development of Tây Tiến (the Westward Advance).
- (1839) After successfully coring Cambodia and Laos, Emperor Minh Mạng of the Nguyen Dynasty renamed Việt Nam to Đại Nam.
Speaking of Tay Son's victory against the China's invasion, THE CHINA THREATS MUST NOT BE NEGLECTED when playing as Dai Viet!
--> DIPLOMATIC DETERIORATION EVENTS: China will invade Dai Viet if the relation drops to distrust. Indeed, there were WHOLE LOTS OF WARS between China - Vietnam whenever the relation were bad (the previous nearest one was 1979). DAI VIET'S BIGGEST THREAT FOR EXISTENCE SHOULD BE FROM CHINA IN THE NORTH (not Lang Xang or even Siam as in the game). On average, China would try to invade Vietnam (full-scale) at least 1 time each 150 years. Therefore, Vietnam's rulers have always tried their best to maintain acceptable relationship with China. Historically, Vietnam was and always is the last barrier that stops China from extending further to South East Asia, as Vietnam is the only way to conveniently enter or exist China in the south (we the Vietnamese call this situation Lời Nguyền Địa Lý (the Curse of Geography on Vietnam) as we are forced to stuck in the mouth of a giant for thousand generations). This Lời Nguyền Địa Lý is also the root cause of Nam Tiến (the Southward Advance), the movement in which at the same time, Vietnamese defended themselves from China, meanwhile gradually extended southward to alleviate the invasion pressure from the north. The division of Vietnam under Trinh-Nguyen Lords only accelerated this movement.
--> OPINION: I think if you could integrate this relationship mechanism (the Curse of Geography on Vietnam) into the game, it would be extremely fascinating. And also there should be an impassable mountain range lying on Lang Xang&Burma borders with China.
In addition, Chinese refugee played a tremendous role in our history, so it would be nice if there is REFUGEE EVENTS: Ha Tien & Vinh Long under Chinese refugee: increase 5 for each Taxation and Production in Ha Tien & Vinh Long, culture is converted to Cantonese, religion: Confucius, -60 for relationship with Khmer, Thai and China.
Also, @Jimmyfeellucky has proposed a detailed series of events for Dai Viet in his comments below, one is so good that I want to quote him here. He also suggested that Dai Viet could use the Daimyo mechanics used in Japan. I too think that it is a very good point, as it could reflect the power struggle between powerful clans of Dai Viet - each wanted to take the throne, but non dared enough to do so.
Well, I'm okay with the rework in this region and willing to try Dai Viet in the new patch. I don't think the dev will do more than adding a medium mission tree and some events. The same to every other nations in this region.
But I could share my view of Dai Viet if she was using the daimyo mechanic just for fun
Dai Viet will have 3 phases spaning form 1444 to 1820.
PHASE 1: Last golden age before the storm.
The 1444 starting king of Dai Viet was still a kid ( he born in 1442) and therefore his mother, the queen dowager Thi Anh Nguyen should be regent. In 1444, Dai Viet should be at war (humiliation war) with Champa.
Event 1:
Condition: The year is either 1459 or Dai Viet has 1 more province than the number of starting provinces.
Name: The coup of Nghi Dan Le.
Instant effect: decrease stability by 1.
Choice 1: Nghi Dan Le (0 0 3)as King.
Effect: Current king will die. Dissolve Dai Viet tag. Playing as an OPM House of Le tag holding the capital Dong Kinh. The country will be divided into 7 house tags. (accelerate the civil war). Disable event 2.
Choice 2: Tu Thanh Le (4 4 4)as King.
Effect: Current king will die. Still playing as unifed Dai Viet and spawn rebel in the capital. (delay the civil war historically). Lead to event 2.
Event 2:
Condition: Tu Thanh Le is the current king. No rebel. Stability at 2. Or the year is at least 1478.
Name: Muang Phuan caves to Dai Viet.
Choice 1: Muang Phuan becomes vassal under Dai Viet. Historical.
Effect: Lan Xang declares war on Muang Phuan and Dai Viet. Lan Xang will have a choice if he give up Muang Phuan to Dai Viet or not
Choice 2: Don't intervene in Muang Phuan.
Effect: decreasing prestige by 20. Muang Phuan becomes hostile towards Lan Xang and remain a vassal under Lan Xang.
Event 3:
Condition: Tu Thanh Le is the current king and Muang Phan is vassal of Dai Viet. Stability at 2.
Name: The reformation of king Tu Thanh Le.
Effect: gain 100 monarch points for each types and lower the cost of adviser by 10% for 20 years. Add natural scientist Qui Don Le with 50% reduced cost.
PHASE 2: Civil bloody war.
The death of Tu Thanh Le also marked the end of the last golden era of Dai Viet. His successors usually were a meh king or a tyrant.
Event 4: The end of unification of Dai Viet. The bureaucrats hold the power. (Shogunate mechanic)
Condition: either Bang Co Le is the current king or it has been 7 years since Tu Thanh Le died. Or Dai Viet holding 4 more than the number of starting provinces. (This will prevent Dai Viet holding too many provinces and shift the balance of power between the major bureaucrat houses).
Effect: Decreasing stability by 3. Dissolve Dai Viet into 7 major house tags. The Newly conquered provinces will belong to the bordering tags (so if Dai Viet annexed Champa, the provinces will have the house of Nguyen Phuc cores and belong to him). (This represents the 3 out of 4 starting provinces of Champa and 1 province of Muang Phuan Dai Viet had conquered before the civil war, and also let Champa be an OPM historically). Grant independence to all vassals of Dai Viet before the civil war.
Choice: playing as 1 of the 7 houses.
Event 5: The refugees from the north.
Condition: For Nguyen Phuc tag only. It has been 10 years since the civil war broke out.
Effect: decrease all provinces in Tonkin area by 1 dev each types and increase all Nguyen Phuc full core provinces by 1 dev each types. (This will buff the Nguyen Phuc tag so that he can expand to modern south Vietnam of the weaken Khmer kingdom).
Event 6: Develop Gia Dinh (a.k.a Sai Gon).
Condition: For Nguyen Phuc tag only. Own full core province of Prey Nokor.
Effect: Move capital to Prey Nokor and rename the province to Gia Dinh. Add 1 devs to each type of the province.
Event 7: Tay Son rebellion.
Condition: For Nguyen (Tay Son) tag only. Only if there're only 4 major houses remaining.
Effect: add 20% land and navy morale and 50% national manpower for 20 years. Hue Nguyen becomes a godly general and duke. (This will buff the Tay Son house of Nguyen and give them a chance to unite the kingdom. Historically, Tay Son army never tasted defeat under the command of Hue Nguyen).
Event 8: Usurp the throne of Dai Viet.
Condition: Only for the house who own the capital Dong Kinh outside of the house of Le, and can be repetitive for other house.
Effect: minus 2 stability and 2 national unrest, minus 10% morale until the unification of Dai Viet. All remaining houses will declare war on the usurper.
(This is the "realm divide" for Dai Viet. Historically, the house of Tran, house of Mac and house of Nguyen (Tay Son) took the capital Dong Kinh from the house of Le and declared king of Dai Viet but soon lost the very throne and the capital to the coalition of other house and the House of Le was restored).
Event 9: Restoration the Le Dynasty.
Condition: Won the coalition war on the usurper and control the capital Dong Kinh. This event will happen before the event 8.
Effect: all other houses gain 30 prestiges each and remove the malices of holding the capital Dong Kinh. Release house of Le tag and give him province of Dong Kinh and king title.
PHASE 3: Unification at last.
Event 10: Unification of Vietnam.
Condition: Be the only bureaucrat house remaining and own province of Dong Kinh.
Effect: abolish the Vietnamese Shogunate government reform. Add 30 prestiges and legitimacy and 1 stability.
Event 11: Jihad against Dai Viet. (also Khmer if he successfully annexed all of Champa).
Condition: Champa converted to Sunni and Champa was no longer exist.
Choice 1: release Champa as vassal. (historical)
Effect: Champa control Panduranga and become a vassal of Dai Viet.
Choice 2: annex Champa completely. All Sunni nations in southeast asia gain a casus belli to attack Dai Viet to release Champa.
(Historically, Champa, after losing most of his territories, still existed as a vassal of Dai Viet or later Dai Nam and only be fully annexed in 1832. There was a call to jihad against Dai Nam in 1832 but with no success. This will ensure the independence of Champa from Dai Viet and Khmer and keep him safe).
I wrote this idea just for fun. The Shogunate mechanic fits Dai Viet perfectly. But also give a chance for new small nations bordering Champa and Champa himself to expand into shattered Dai Viet.
V. MISSIONS
Definitely, Nam Tien (the Southward Advance) should be the main mission of any Dai Viet player. To capture all the Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam.
Some detailed missions proposed by @korawit13 can be really helpful:
Dai Viet mission tree
As just a side note for an educated purpose: Le Nghi Dan's Reforms Lê Nghi Dân changed the administrative system to "six ministries, six departments" which was considered as a brilliant policy. Do you know how he get there? On 3 October 1459, Lê...
Optionally, after Nam Tiến, there should be a mission for Tây Tiến (the Westward Advance) in which Dai Viet annexed Eastern provinces of proper Khmer and Southern provinces of Laos. In Tây Tiến, Vietnam fought for mainland South East Asia's hegemony with its main rival: Siam/Ayyuthaya, thus Laos and Cambodia became the battle fields between the two regional powers. Here is the map after Tây Tiến:
One other important side mission is Nam Viet (Nanyue) Empire - the provinces of Liangguang: inclusing GuangXi and GuangZhou were traditional lands of the Baiyue, ancestors of today Vietnamese, who was forced to moved southward to nowadays north Viet Nam by the Han Chinese invaders. If a player could re-capture all the provinces in GuangXi and GuangZhou, one should form a nation called NAM VIET with a huge prestige and legitimacy boost. Bắc Phạt (Punishing the North) as proposed by @An Mai in the comment below would be a very appropriate name for this mission.
Nanyue - Wikipedia
If Dai Viet is to be divided into smaller nations: the Le Dynasty of Dai Viet, Tonkin, Annam and Tay Son then the second main mission, should be to re-unite the Kingdom by destroying all other Vietnamese factions and finally marching to Thang Long to overthrow the Le emperors.
VIETNAM with capital moved to Hue should be formable when all provinces in 1445 Dai Viet, Sip Song Chau Tai, Champa's provinces, Tay Nguyen tribes, and the Six Provinces of Southern Vietnam are under Dai Viet's control. Basically, the Nguyen emperors tried to unite and heal the kingdom after 300 years of war, thus they pretty much isolate the whole country from any outsider. Therefore their ideas should be based on Production, Taxation, Religious Harmony, Espionage, Aristocrat and Defensive. Below is the flag of Việt Nam under the Nguyen Dynasty:
Finally, after accomplishing Tây Tiến mission (above), Vietnam could form ĐẠI NAM (The Great Empire of The South). For a short amount of time (1820 - 1841), Vietnam did break out from self-isolation and seek for expansions on the expense of its neighbors. Ironically, after forming the nation, the court built a habit of making poems everyday instead of training, and thus turned the country into an anti-European kingdom (maybe because the European did too much math & science, the European should have written more poems everyday
). Đại Nam became quite weak in military in a period of rapidly losing army tradition, later on turned themselves into an easy prey for the French invasion in 1858. Therefore, Đại Nam's ideas should be focusing on Maritime, Culture Harmony, Trade and Diplomat. Below is the flag of Đại Nam:
VI. CONCLUSION
All in all, Dai Viet should act as a bridge between East Asia and South East Asia. Therefore, their play-style should be focusing on:
- Maintaining a good diplomatic relationship with China to avoid any invasion, and retake Liangguang to form Nam Viet (Nanyue) if possible (THE NORTH)
- Southward expansion and fostering legitimacy, re-unite the nation if civil war(s) do happen (THE SOUTH)
- Fighting for hegemony with western neighbors: Siam or any other mainland South East Asia factions (THE WEST)
... (200 years later since the end game 1820)
4. Struggling with China in the EAST Vietnam Sea right now, and it is getting intense as the eagle has leaved its nest! (THE EAST)
EDITOR NOTE: thank you guys for your constructive and insightful comments on this post! There're too many excellent points and corrections in the comments below that cannot be (and I don't dare to) simply summarize here. The comments deserve to be read one by one to really understand the flow of ideas. Speaking of ideas, they are so rich in quality and quantity that this thread is looking more and more like a Wikipedia page, yet sadly uncertain to be ever read by the developers
. Nevertheless, hope that this thread will be helpful for anyone in need, or just want to explore new things. Keep up and spread the knowledge
Last edited:
- 11
- 5
- 3
- 1
Upvote
0
