So over powerful the Genesis Guides is

[YouMu#143]

Genesis Guides are so powerful that unity and influence are almost free.

After colonizing 10 balls, we can get 300 influence(including gaining 50 influence by improving unintelligent species.) and 15k unity by spending only 3k sociology points for each ball colonized. What a deal!

In just 58 years I have completed 6 traditional trees and have nearly 1000 pops. My habitable worlds are 1X

And 4 damaged structures have been repaired.

I can't imagine how powerful Genesis Guides would be if habitable world was 5X.

 

[YouMu#143]

My build.All hail the Fanatic Pacifist!

 

[Incompetent]

I'm kind of shocked it isn't a locked civic to be honest, like Idyllic Bloom. Pretty much any build can casually put this civic in at the start for a cheap unity/colony rush, then when they're done colonizing/uplifting, reform into whatever civics they would have been using otherwise. People tend to take Parliamentary System as a throwaway civic for early unity, but this could be on another level, and it's much more widely available.

The most broken version is probably 5x habitables, but also Integrated Hive (for up to -75% empire size effect) or machines into Nanotech (negate sprawl from colonies, plus Nanotech generally benefits from being a huge blob with a high starbase cap). Then after doing your disgustingly fast colony spam, not only are you way ahead on unity and just generally having a lot of planets to build your economy on, but you're not even paying for it in terms of sprawl penalties. Driven Assimilator + Cybernetic would also be pretty funny, albeit less sprawl-efficient: create umpteen pre-sapient species, uplift and assimilate them all, build a Gestation World, and enjoy the ridiculous overall pop growth you get on your mass of low-population planets.

 

[Abdulijubjub]

Integrated Hive's empire size effect reduction replaces the default Hive reduction, rather than supplementing it, I think. And you can't take Gray Eminence, so I think you're capped at 50%.

 

[Incompetent]

Integrated Hive's empire size effect reduction replaces the default Hive reduction, rather than supplementing it, I think. And you can't take Gray Eminence, so I think you're capped at 50%.

"Up to" means "depending on whether you take Divided Attention" (but you'd have to have a pretty good reason not to). I guess it stacks with Statecraft finisher as well, to take you to up to -80%?

Since neither Divided Attention nor Genesis Symbiotes is a locked civic, you wouldn't even need to take both at once: you could have just Genesis Symbiotes while you start mass colonizing, then add in Divided Attention when the sprawl gets too burdensome.

Similarly, with "negate sprawl from colonies" with Nanotech, I'm assuming you take Imperial Prerogative or something to get rid of the other 50% (you don't have to, but it makes sense if you're going ultra-wide).

 

[Abdulijubjub]

I think Divided Attention is just a % empire size reduction now, which means you're getting 62.5% total reduction, not 75%. But yeah, it's a pretty hefty reduction.

Also, side note: you made me realize they reworked Crucible Worlds into Gestation Worlds. And holy crap, they are great now.

 

[Hidden Sage]

Well, finding this thread is fun. Because you're right that the early unity and influence is hella strong. However, going into the lategame with a dozen different uplifed species in your empire that, at present, have only one trait (as is typical for uplifed species) and that you can't gene-mod (due to a bug that has not been patched and that there's no mention of in the 12.3 announcements) is one heck of a handicap in its own right.

Personally, I've abandoned my Genesis Guides save out of sheer frustration with the waste of its potential the bugs in it represent.

 

[Jeyops]

The Game OP presented looks cheesy. 5k Research 50 years into the game and a quarter of the galaxy for yourself...

 

[Dragatus]

However, going into the lategame with a dozen different uplifed species in your empire that, at present, have only one trait (as is typical for uplifed species) and that you can't gene-mod (due to a bug that has not been patched and that there's no mention of in the 12.3 announcements) is one heck of a handicap in its own right.

The Synaptic Lathe says hi.

 

[Thiend]

The Synaptic Lathe says hi.

Or machine assimilation. Or necrophages. Or being Psionic, so the lost genemodding was mostly useless to begin with.

Or, hell, just deport them as soon as you finish uplifting them. Somehow deporting the uplifted presapients isn't a conflict, and you keep the monument.

 

[Kava]

The Game OP presented looks cheesy. 5k Research 50 years into the game and a quarter of the galaxy for yourself...

Looks like some very generous pop growth settings. Beacon of Liberty would have been a better pick than Genesis Guides to lower his Empire Size from pops.

 

[Kava]

Well, finding this thread is fun. Because you're right that the early unity and influence is hella strong. However, going into the lategame with a dozen different uplifed species in your empire that, at present, have only one trait (as is typical for uplifed species) and that you can't gene-mod (due to a bug that has not been patched and that there's no mention of in the 12.3 announcements) is one heck of a handicap in its own right.

Personally, I've abandoned my Genesis Guides save out of sheer frustration with the waste of its potential the bugs in it represent.

It's a shame because it fits Overtuned extremely well. Hopefully it will get bugfixed and swap some of the excessive influence/unity over to society research and gene mod cost reductions.
I also found it a bit strange that it has a bonus to terraforming when your uplifted species on each planet will have 100% habitability due to it being their homeworld. It's probably a reference to the Genesis Device from Wrath of Khan which terraformed planets, but it doesn't seem to fit with what you want to do with the civic.

 

[jodnus]

Looks like some very generous pop growth settings. Beacon of Liberty would have been a better pick than Genesis Guides to lower his Empire Size from pops.

In the hands of a machine empire, because of the noncompeting growth slots, yeah.

In regular bio empires, I am finding I don't want to uplift species on my core habitables until later so I don't have garbage no trait pops growing, mainly using the uplift to make early use of worlds with poor habitability. There is some decision making and thought around the timing in this case, rather than spam uplifting like a machine empire can.

It's one of those times where I am concerned that bio empires will feel the brunt of any nerf this may get because it is deemed 'too good' in the hands of a machines.

 

[Satori_Komeiji]

The Game OP presented looks cheesy. 5k Research 50 years into the game and a quarter of the galaxy for yourself...

It was 0 AI empires setting, All planets in the galaxy are yours. Usually people play this setting just for big numbers or aim for fastest 25x crisis.
When set to default or maxed AEs, The power of this civic will be limited., But still better than other unity rush civics.
When playing with this civic, You don't unity rush, But tech rush instead. Regular unity rush build usually ignore research until you finishes desired tradition, But this civic can do both rush.

 

[Methone]

The title, Yoda wrote

 

[Nakkivene]

In the hands of a machine empire, because of the noncompeting growth slots, yeah.

In regular bio empires, I am finding I don't want to uplift species on my core habitables until later so I don't have garbage no trait pops growing, mainly using the uplift to make early use of worlds with poor habitability. There is some decision making and thought around the timing in this case, rather than spam uplifting like a machine empire can.

It's one of those times where I am concerned that bio empires will feel the brunt of any nerf this may get because it is deemed 'too good' in the hands of a machines.

I feel it's too good in bio hands too. Effectively you start with every type of habitability, even tomb world. And the kind of unity/society boost that's impossible with any other civic. And influence. And unity bursts. And of course pops. Different pops than your main species that doesn't require an origin and doesn't get you proles that cannot do specialist jobs or lead. And terraforming cost reduction I guess.

I'm of the opinion that habitability (especially tomb world) shouldn't be so easily solved.

 

[Dragatus]

Genesis Guides would be fine if they were a locked civic. Right now it's too easy to start with genesis guides, uplift on all your planets, then when you've reached the final extent of your borders you switch them for another civic, but keep all the accumulated benefits.

 

[Nakkivene]

Genesis Guides would be fine if they were a locked civic. Right now it's too easy to start with genesis guides, uplift on all your planets, then when you've reached the final extent of your borders you switch them for another civic, but keep all the accumulated benefits.

Do you lose the genesis monuments if you switch?

 

[Ikael]

Wow, Genesis Guides didn't look so powerful "on paper". But yes, this is a prime candidate for either a non-removable civic, or perhaps tie it with pacifism (since it is an ethic that makes it harder to expand).

 

[jodnus]

Do you lose the genesis monuments if you switch?

The planetary feature remains, but you lose all benefits from the monument.

Strangely, if you do not uplift and switch out you still get the benefits of the preserve.